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Jose Watch 2012: Colangelo hints Jose will not be amnestied (#46)

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  • #31
    Ok, I just want to throw something out there about this whole "lifer" thing. I know if you take it literally, he doesn't fully qualify, but can we get some thoughts on Alvin Williams as a Raptor? He came to Toronto via trade in his first season and played all of his career in Toronto, basically. He obviously had a shortened career, but I think it's stupid to count his 10 day contract with the Clippers as being significant. He was done well before that, struggling to recover from injuries.
    So maybe Jose has the best shot at the moment to be a "lifer" in the truest sense of the word, but the closest so far, and I think close enough to be called so, is Alvin. Alvin was a warrior who was basically only ever a Raptor, and he's even still with the team.
    I don't know how this became basically another "do you like/hate Jose?" thread in a lot of ways, but regardless of personal thoughts, he does have a real shot given he could soon transition to backup/mentor if we get a young replacement soon enough. I think we might also re-sign him after he's up on his contract if there are no upgrades in FA, because even if we maybe draft a PG in a year, we'll still need a vet. Jose could fit in our plans for awhile, almost by default.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Apr 23, 2012, 07:22 PM.

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    • #32
      Won't happen. Next season he's going to be traded at the deadline for a TPE. We know how much BC loves those.

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      • #33
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        He's a great floor general. He makes everyone better with his high ball IQ and good shooting. Your whole argument is that he's not a good leader because of his win %. That's weak ground. It would be different if you said I think he's a poor leader for this, that and the other thing and also see here, the win percentage further validates my argument but you're not doing that. What you're doing is suggesting he's a poor leader because his team doesn't win many games. Do you see the flaw in this line of thinking?
        When you asked me what it was that caused me to question his leadership ability my reply was a lack of credibility. Everyone has a certain amount of promise or potential when they come into the league and a true leader learns how to manifest that promise in his teammates into something tangible. I'm not saying you have to win a championship to have credibility but if you have at least garnered votes as an all-star that shows something that is respected by young players.
        As far as having a high IQ and being a great floor general again I disagree. He misses lots of opportunities when he pulls up on breaks because he doesn't have the confidence to finish. A great floor general is Steve Nash. A decent floor general is Jose Calderone. With Jose at the point we know what we've got and it's not getting better. I'd rather see somebody else get a chance.

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        • #34
          Grown man calderon needs to stay a raptor. Let him back up dragic

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          • #35
            CT2010 wrote: View Post
            To be clear I am a Jose fan and agree with your assessment of his talents and leadership qualities and think he would be a great mentor to any young pg the Raps bring in to groom as his replacement of the future. I do however think that this guys point is not the winning percentage being low, but that is is the same with or without Jose on the floor.
            I got the point but when you're talking about a high lotto team no one other than a superstar can pull them out of that. Now what exactly do the naysayers see that he's doing wrong? I'm still waiting for something to support stats which haven't been provided...

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            • #36
              All coaches appreciate Calderon-type players. He can play a starter for another 2 years easily. The only thing I don't like about him is his contract. Mind you there are worse contracts but you simply cannot pay a pass-first PG 10million/ year unless he defends 1/2 ,scores and distributes like the old Jkidd.

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              • #37
                Seriously guys, no love for Alvin Williams? =P

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                • #38
                  white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  Seriously guys, no love for Alvin Williams? =P
                  All over Alvin, and you are right. He pretty much meets the definition of lifer. If only his "life" with the Raptors hadn't been so short. He pretty much gave up his knees playing for them.

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                  • #39
                    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    Seriously guys, no love for Alvin Williams? =P
                    He also played for other teams. He's DQed.

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                    • #40
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      He also played for other teams. He's DQed.
                      Barely =P....43 games....41 in his rookie year in Portland and 2 games on a 10 day contract for LAC after we waived him.

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                      • #41
                        He doesn't fit the definition whether it's a little or a lot.

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                        • #42
                          I hope Jose is a Raptor lifer ... he is already the best Raptor PG ever, judged on time wearing the dino - and is a class act. If he could start another year or two and transition into a leadership and stability role as a back-up ... why not?
                          The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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                          • #43
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            He doesn't fit the definition whether it's a little or a lot.
                            Well then whether it's a little or a lot, this is a mislabelled thread, and I'd like to propose that Nate Huffman qualifies as a Toronto lifer. Sure it's only 7 games, and the team tried to screw him out of his money, resulting in a lawsuit. So while there is clearly no desire for either him or the team to recognize it, he played his entire NBA career in Toronto, and is thus by your technical definition, a "lifer". =P

                            Clearly I'm kidding with this, but seriously, I understand the technicality, but lets say we keep Jose until his final year, and then trade him because we know he's done, or he wants to go somewhere else(maybe we'd be bad again by then, and since Jose's game is not very athletic to begin with, he may still be useful as a 2nd or 3rd PG), and he's traded away for 40-50 games...would you then disqualify him as a lifer? I think there needs to be some flexibility. If your definition is very rigid, I'd say I doubt Jose will be a lifer, and these days it's usually just franchise guys like Duncan, Kobe, etc...who can be and usually choose to be. And even some of those calibre players just choose to go elsewhere.

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                            • #44
                              Sorry, I think I dissed PJ Tucker, who played a whole 17 games for us before washing out of the league and going to Europe.

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                              • #45
                                white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                                Well then whether it's a little or a lot, this is a mislabelled thread, and I'd like to propose that Nate Huffman qualifies as a Toronto lifer. Sure it's only 7 games, and the team tried to screw him out of his money, resulting in a lawsuit. So while there is clearly no desire for either him or the team to recognize it, he played his entire NBA career in Toronto, and is thus by your technical definition, a "lifer". =P

                                Clearly I'm kidding with this, but seriously, I understand the technicality, but lets say we keep Jose until his final year, and then trade him because we know he's done, or he wants to go somewhere else(maybe we'd be bad again by then, and since Jose's game is not very athletic to begin with, he may still be useful as a 2nd or 3rd PG), and he's traded away for 40-50 games...would you then disqualify him as a lifer? I think there needs to be some flexibility. If your definition is very rigid, I'd say I doubt Jose will be a lifer, and these days it's usually just franchise guys like Duncan, Kobe, etc...who can be and usually choose to be. And even some of those calibre players just choose to go elsewhere.
                                Ok, so the thread was mislabeled. Fixed. The main concept of the thread remains intact.

                                white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                                Clearly I'm kidding with this, but seriously, I understand the technicality, but lets say we keep Jose until his final year, and then trade him because we know he's done, or he wants to go somewhere else(maybe we'd be bad again by then, and since Jose's game is not very athletic to begin with, he may still be useful as a 2nd or 3rd PG), and he's traded away for 40-50 games...would you then disqualify him as a lifer? I think there needs to be some flexibility. If your definition is very rigid, I'd say I doubt Jose will be a lifer, and these days it's usually just franchise guys like Duncan, Kobe, etc...who can be and usually choose to be. And even some of those calibre players just choose to go elsewhere.
                                The main concept of the thread is playing out an NBA career only in one spot.

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