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Thread: Can We Please Stop the Stupidity?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Default Can We Please Stop the Stupidity?

    I am talking about the threads titled "Bargnani, Kleiza and Demar for *****."

    Does anybody really believe anything like that is going to happen? What's the point of those threads? They just get in my way when I am looking for something remotely resembling intelligent conversation about the Raptors.

    Bryco is not going to trade away 2 or 3 members of the starting line up because he is not going to find something better coming back. Why do you think that any GM would want to give up players that you think are "really good" for players that you think are "really crap?"

    Why not just start a thread titled "Lets trade our garbage for all-stars."

    People, get your head out of your alimentary canal.
    Last edited by Puffer; Tue Apr 24th, 2012 at 07:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    More like trade our up and coming players for half decent players who will leave once their contract is up.

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    Agreed. Those types of proposals show the type of intelligence that I'd normally associate with sports radio in Philadelphia or Chicago. If there are moves to be made it would be among the bigs where there is more bodies than necessary. BC has been burned on the O'Neal and Turkoglu moves and has been better rewarded on the seemingly small-scale tinkering that brought in Amir and JJ. The most likely candidate for a trade is Ed and for all of the clamour to ship Europeans out of town, Andrea and Jose improved their stock in Toronto. In Jose's case there is the challenge of finding a serviceable point guard in return. Proposals like the stupidity-laced ones cited above are a waste of oxygen for someone who's likely been deprived of it already.

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    Thanks for starting this thread. I often thank god that some of these people work nowhere near a pro or semi pro basketball team. I think most people fail to understand what the term "build" means. You don't trade half your team every year and expect a team to have enough chemistry to improve.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i always look at them like fodder to keep us talking about something while this season winds down. there have been a lot of threads i don't post in because they aren't worth the time ie. the anderson thread. that guy is nowhere near an nba player. but the actual threads like bigV the draft etc. have been talked to death that there isn't anything to talk about until after the lottery. pointless speculation is all we have at the moment to hold us over.

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    I think we have all been guilty of posting a thread that we regret at one point or another. That being said, I agree with you 100%. People keep talking about teams keeping their core of players and adding to that core and every year we get more new players than we keep from the year before. With always trading players the way we have been doing, who do we expect there to be chemistry and longevity on the team and why should a player want to give it their all if only to the city of Toronto when they know that the fans will turn their backs on them as soon as they have a bad moment.

    Thanks for the post!

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    People, get your head out of your alimentary canal.
    i giggled...

    Well put sir.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    I think we have all been guilty of posting a thread that we regret at one point or another. That being said, I agree with you 100%. People keep talking about teams keeping their core of players and adding to that core and every year we get more new players than we keep from the year before. With always trading players the way we have been doing, who do we expect there to be chemistry and longevity on the team and why should a player want to give it their all if only to the city of Toronto when they know that the fans will turn their backs on them as soon as they have a bad moment.

    Thanks for the post!
    The question is, why maintain a core that shouldn't be defined as a "core"? I have no problem with roster movement as long as it's done with a purpose. Holding onto to non-stars like Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza and Calderon, etc. for the sake of continuity does nothing to improve this franchise.

    IMO, "tinkering" should be saved for when we have legit pieces to build with. Until then, bring on the massive overhaul.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Bargnani, Jonas, Derozan ... plus a top 10 pick in a stacked draft ... that's a core - a young core.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Bargnani, Jonas, Derozan ... plus a top 10 pick in a stacked draft ... that's a core - a young core.
    Yeah, but is it good enough to commit to? How does our core compare to:

    OKC - Durant, Harden, Westbrook
    CHI - Rose, Noah, Deng
    MIA - LeBron, Wade, Bosh
    DAL - Dirk, Kidd, Terry
    BOS - Pierce, KG, Rondo
    LAL - Kobe, Pau, Bynum
    LAC - CP3, Griffin, Jordan
    IND - Granger, West, George
    ATL - Johnson, Horford, Smith
    NYK - Stoudamire, Melo, Lin

    Our talent level doesn't compare to any of these examples, and some of these teams aren't even legit championship contenders. So if our core isn't good enough to compete deep in the playoffs, what's the point of building around them?

    We all have high hopes for Jonas and our 2012 pick. But let's remind ourselves that they haven't proven anything yet.

    If any offers materialize that involve one (or both) of Bargnani and DeRozan which upgrades our overall talent, then Colangelo should seriously consider it.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The question is, why maintain a core that shouldn't be defined as a "core"? I have no problem with roster movement as long as it's done with a purpose. Holding onto to non-stars like Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza and Calderon, etc. for the sake of continuity does nothing to improve this franchise.

    IMO, "tinkering" should be saved for when we have legit pieces to build with. Until then, bring on the massive overhaul.
    IMO, its beyond continuity. Bargnani, Derozan and Calderon are borderline stars, a level or two above role players. Kleiza, i consider a role player. I think hanging on to these guys is not the worst move for this franchise, specially now that we're seeing improvement, and continued improvement for others. With JV, the pick and FA coming in, and if BC does not mess up the pick and FA, i seriously think the playoffs is not far off. And getting into the playoffs will definitely give this team leverage. A winning culture will definitely attract more attention and possibly other big name players. Everytime an overhaul is done, it sets the team back at least a couple of years, and it gives the team a bad reputation, no stability, no loyalty, disarray.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    IMO, its beyond continuity. Bargnani, Derozan and Calderon are borderline stars, a level or two above role players. Kleiza, i consider a role player. I think hanging on to these guys is not the worst move for this franchise, specially now that we're seeing improvement, and continued improvement for others. With JV, the pick and FA coming in, and if BC does not mess up the pick and FA, i seriously think the playoffs is not far off. And getting into the playoffs will definitely give this team leverage. A winning culture will definitely attract more attention and possibly other big name players. Everytime an overhaul is done, it sets the team back at least a couple of years, and it gives the team a bad reputation, no stability, no loyalty, disarray.
    I agree that the core you mentioned is good enough to compete for the playoffs next season (in a relatively week Eastern Conference). But at some point, JV, our 2012 pick, and DeRozan will need to get paid. And we can't sign notable free agents when we're capped out.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I am talking about the threads titled "Bargnani, Kleiza and Demar for *****."

    Does anybody really believe anything like that is going to happen? What's the point of those threads? They just get in my way when I am looking for something remotely resembling intelligent conversation about the Raptors.

    Bryco is not going to trade away 2 or 3 members of the starting line up because he is not going to find something better coming back. Why do you think that any GM would want to give up players that you think are "really good" for players that you think are "really crap?"

    Why not just start a thread titled "Lets trade our garbage for all-stars."

    People, get your head out of your alimentary canal.
    Not enough sleep? hahaha man, you are livid!

    I too feel the same, but then i realize that this a public site and everything is based on opinion, no wrongs and no rights.

    But yes, some of the proposals are quite bogus. Its like everyone expects BC to stack this team with superstars, otherwise, its not a success. Unfortunately, it doesnt work that way. Even if we catch a glimpse of a possible superstar, he packs his bags and zooms out the first chance he gets. So all we can pray for is this bunch of players they have no, strive harder to improve and bring back winning, and make an open invitation to superstars to come play here.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I agree that the core you mentioned is good enough to compete for the playoffs next season (in a relatively week Eastern Conference). But at some point, JV, our 2012 pick, and DeRozan will need to get paid. And we can't sign notable free agents when we're capped out.
    That is true....

    But if we give up the players that we currently have, wont the players that we traded for eventually have to get paid too? If the team acquires players significantly "better" than JV, Derozan and the pick, wont that bury the team farther in cap in 2-3 years? so the only way to make it all worth it is they become a contender within those 2-3 years?

    Im not being sarcastic, i really want to find out how it can be done.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Most threads like that are quickly moved to the Trade Forum.

    Sometimes trade suggestions come up in threads in Everything Raptors but that is to be expected.

    I think this thread is better served where most of those thread titles happen..... in the Trade Forum.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    That is true....

    But if we give up the players that we currently have, wont the players that we traded for eventually have to get paid too? If the team acquires players significantly "better" than JV, Derozan and the pick, wont that bury the team farther in cap in 2-3 years? so the only way to make it all worth it is they become a contender within those 2-3 years?

    Im not being sarcastic, i really want to find out how it can be done.
    Well technically, we can go over the cap to sign our own free agents thanks to Bird Rights. So as long as MLSE is committed to winning, going over the cap to sign current players shouldn't be a problem.

    But in general, I'm speaking of the general fear of trading our "best" players. We should be exploring all possibilities of improving our team long-term. Based on the poor performances of the past 4 years, we shouldn't be attached to any one player on this roster.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Well technically, we can go over the cap to sign our own free agents thanks to Bird Rights. So as long as MLSE is committed to winning, going over the cap to sign current players shouldn't be a problem.

    But in general, I'm speaking of the general fear of trading our "best" players. We should be exploring all possibilities of improving our team long-term. Based on the poor performances of the past 4 years, we shouldn't be attached to any one player on this roster.
    I definitely agree. No one is untouchable. But there has to be a plan. You cant trade Derozan just because he had a bad year, or Calderon because he potentially might be injured. If the plan is to build on youth, then trade all the old players, if the plan is to run, then trade all the slow ones, there has to be a plan.

    Your post on the core of the other good teams is a very, very good point. However, none of these teams got all three in one season, well except for Miami. What im saying is, if say Derozan is traded, that new player may make JV and Bagnani better players. Or if Bargnani is traded, the new player is a fit with JV and Derozan. I dont see the advantage in trading all your starters, well, unless you are able to land superstars. Follow a plan, fill the need.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Tue Apr 24th, 2012 at 03:06 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Most threads like that are quickly moved to the Trade Forum.

    Sometimes trade suggestions come up in threads in Everything Raptors but that is to be expected.

    I think this thread is better served where most of those thread titles happen..... in the Trade Forum.
    Hey I have no problem with moving it. And I admit I didn't think before starting the thread. When I read the posts here I don't go by forum, I just hit "What's New" and read or, as in this case, react. My apologies for miss-posting it.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    ...But in general, I'm speaking of the general fear of trading our "best" players. We should be exploring all possibilities of improving our team long-term. Based on the poor performances of the past 4 years, we shouldn't be attached to any one player on this roster.
    I absolutely agree. No one is untouchable. This thread was reacting to the suggested trades that basically include everyone of value on the team, with the expectation that some GM will agree to give the Raptors far more value back. How likely is that to happen. Why even talk about it. Why not just say "Give me your pearls and you can have my shite."

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Hey I have no problem with moving it. And I admit I didn't think before starting the thread. When I read the posts here I don't go by forum, I just hit "What's New" and read or, as in this case, react. My apologies for miss-posting it.
    No worries. I have been thinking the same thing of late. I am guilty of posting many trades that will never happen but I always try to keep it a little realistic or justifiable. Your point is 'BANG ON!'

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