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Thread: Losing is a slippery slope

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Losing is a slippery slope

    Honestly, I'd rather the Raptors win Thursday versus New Jersey than deal with this:

    J.J. Barea has had enough. The Timberwolves walked onto the court at Target Center, took their medicine quietly and left with their 12th loss in 13 games.

    "We've got problems here," Barea said. "We just got a lot of guys that don't care. When a basketball team got a bunch of players that don't care, it's tough to win games. It's going to happen until we get players in that care: care about winning, care about the team, care about the fans."

    In a flashback to the Kurt Rambis Era, several of the Wolves clearly didn't give a flip. They coughed up a 21-point lead late in the first half to the woeful, banged-up Golden State Warriors in a game that reflected badly on coach Rick Adelman, the Wolves organization and, most of all, the players themselves.

    The "who cares?" attitude was evident in the lack of defensive effort, the erratic shot selection and the sometimes selfish play. And when Barea made his postgame remarks, he wasn't hiding in a corner. He was sitting in front of his locker and within earshot of several of his teammates.

    "They just come in here after the game like nothing happened," Barea said. "That's what happens to a losing team."

    Barea, a member of the championship Dallas Mavericks last season, says he will try to keep yapping at them. With every other Wolves point guard injured or, in Malcolm Lee's case, throwing up, Barea played all 48 minutes against the Warriors. It wasn't his best game. But he appeared to be giving it his all.

    "There's a bunch of us, too, that care and play hard," he said. "But there's a bunch that don't care, and we just got to change that.

    "I've been noticing it. But today you can really notice it. It was a brutal second half. Nobody fighting, nobody getting mad at nobody. After a game like that you got to have problems. You got to argue with your teammates. But nobody cares so we've got to change that."


    For the past three weeks the most interesting thing that has happened to the Timberwolves has been Kevin Love's haircut. Oh, and shave. That bit of grooming has resulted in more buzz than anything the team has done on the court since it came apart at the seams awhile back.

    That's probably not a surprise because the past four weeks of any Wolves season always represents the team's personal Heartbreak Hill. Come April, the team collectively starts sucking wind and wobbling at the knees. The Wolves have run off some amazing losing streaks during this time of the season.

    Now they are finishing with another dull thud. This has been a sorry three weeks. Yes, there have been injuries. But there's a difference between being short-handed and just playing bad basketball. An awful lot of early-season good work is being flushed here. A lot of hard-earned respect is slipping away.

    Anthony Tolliver, a free agent after Thursday's season finale, didn't exactly agree with Barea. But he sounded pretty close.

    "I would say that there's some guys in here that have been more worried about other things," Tolliver said. "It's not necessarily that they don't want to win. Sometimes the team concept just goes out of the window."

    Adelman appeared disgusted after the game.

    "It's the attitude, like I said. The game was easy in the first half, we were scoring and things were going good," he said. "Then in the second half we acted like it was going to be that way the whole game without working at it."

    It's a sorry finish to a season that held so much promise for so long.

    "Got a lead. Got comfortable. They got it going," Michael Beasley said.

    Beasley is a restricted free agent after the season, and the Wolves have a big decision to make on him. His defense was awful Sunday. But it's like that a lot and probably isn't the result of a lack of effort. Asked if he agreed with Barea's assessment, Beasley said:

    "It's always a problem. Do I agree with him? Maybe. But until you point those guys out one by one, it doesn't really matter."

    I thought these guys were supposed to call themselves out in the locker room and not wait for someone to do it in print.

    "I'm disappointed," Beasley said. "Especially about guys that don't care. But we got one more left. Those who don't care won't be here next year."

    That was the most encouraging thing I'd seen or heard all day.
    http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_...twincities.com

    Adding talent to a toxic environment is hardly progress.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    With a loss on Thursday, I'm not worried at all about any of this stuff happening in Toronto. With Anderson, Uzoh and Alabi getting minutes, do we really care if we pull out a win? With these guys working their tails off, and likely not back next year, how much of that "winning attitude" will spill over to training camp 5 months from now?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    [QUOTE=Matt52;126826]Honestly, I'd rather the Raptors win Thursday versus New Jersey than deal with this:
    I started a thread basically asking the same question this morning and now saw your post. Sorry about that. I would rather them win personally. They will win 1 more game than last year with a shorter schedule if they do win.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    With a loss on Thursday, I'm not worried at all about any of this stuff happening in Toronto. With Anderson, Uzoh and Alabi getting minutes, do we really care if we pull out a win? With these guys working their tails off, and likely not back next year, how much of that "winning attitude" will spill over to training camp 5 months from now?
    Maybe. I worry about the peception our fanbase is receiving. The players, coaches and management all read the paper see and hear the comments like "Winning that game was inexcusable" from the so called tank nation. And while I understand the motivation behind trying to load as many ping pong balls in to the hopper as possible, I think that message is a poor one. The players busted their asses, rose to the occassion and beat two of the east's best teams only to be ridiculed and maligned by their so called "Fans" that is poor. Embarrasing actually.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    Maybe. I worry about the peception our fanbase is receiving. The players, coaches and management all read the paper see and hear the comments like "Winning that game was inexcusable" from the so called tank nation. And while I understand the motivation behind trying to load as many ping pong balls in to the hopper as possible, I think that message is a poor one. The players busted their asses, rose to the occassion and beat two of the east's best teams only to be ridiculed and maligned by their so called "Fans" that is poor. Embarrasing actually.
    I'm willing to bet the players don't spend too much time reading fan msg boards.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Stahmenah_Vybz;126842]
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Honestly, I'd rather the Raptors win Thursday versus New Jersey than deal with this:
    I started a thread basically asking the same question this morning and now saw your post. Sorry about that. I would rather them win personally. They will win 1 more game than last year with a shorter schedule if they do win.
    No worries.

    I merged yours in to the Countdown thread.

    I originally put this in the tanking thread as well until I remembered the Wolves don't have a pick.

    I decided to put it in its own thread. It ties in with the idea of culture. The Wolves even have a great coach in Adelman.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Apr 24th, 2012 at 09:49 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    as i stated in a different thread. We should win the last game just to win one more than last year and to give us fans one last good game before they go home for the summer.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    as i stated in a different thread. We should win the last game just to win one more than last year and to give us fans one last good game before they go home for the summer.
    Noooooooooo!

    The extra ping pong balls from a loss would be far more valuable to the fans
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Noooooooooo!

    The extra ping pong balls from a loss would be far more valuable to the fans
    Agreed. It would be the difference between being tied with Cleveland for the #5 slot (7.5% chance) and winding up with the #7 slot (4% chance), assuming Cleveland beats Washington on Wednesday.

    Who cares about a single meaningless win in the last game of a wasted season by a team where half the players on the court for it won't even be on next year's roster? Think about next year and beyond; this one victory could be the difference between drafting Beal/Barnes and drafting PJII/Lamb... I personally think drafting Beal/Barnes is a much better reward for fans who stuck by this Raptors team through this horrendous season!

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Win or lose I enjoy watching a Raptors game when they play hard for as close to 48 minutes as they can muster. When I see the opposite I turn the TV off. So if they play hard and we get more ping pong balls...great. If they play hard and they win....great

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Stahmenah_Vybz;126842]
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Honestly, I'd rather the Raptors win Thursday versus New Jersey than deal with this:
    I started a thread basically asking the same question this morning and now saw your post. Sorry about that. I would rather them win personally. They will win 1 more game than last year with a shorter schedule if they do win.
    I agree that it is better to win then not to win. However, I do not agree with this pseudo milestone that people talk about.\, winning more games then last season with less games. This season was such a cluster-f, that comparing to other seasons is almost apples to oranges. Lets wait until next season, before talking about improvements.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Without looking it up, can anyone tell me the outcome of our season finale last year? Didn't think so.

    Win or lose, nobody will care about this New Jersey game after the final buzzer. It's only importance is lottery positioning.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Without looking it up, can anyone tell me the outcome of our season finale last year? Didn't think so.

    Win or lose, nobody will care about this New Jersey game after the final buzzer. It's only importance is lottery positioning.
    You don't remember the blowout loss to Miami's bench?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You don't remember the blowout loss to Miami's bench?
    LOL, I honestly didn't remember until you mentioned it.

    Either way, that loss didn't seem to affect anyone during training camp.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    LOL, I honestly didn't remember until you mentioned it.

    Either way, that loss didn't seem to affect anyone during training camp.
    And it didn't get the Raptors in to the top 3 either - despite finishing 3rd worst.

    The top 3 teams will not be 1, 2, and 3. Hopefully the Raptors get one of the top three picks like NJ (#3) and LAC (#8) did last year.... of course, those teams traded their picks. Lesson here: always top 3 protect your pick!

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    My personal sentiments are that Barea has no room to speak. He chose a long term deal with a perennial lottery team over taking a one year deal with the defending champs.He got what he signed on for.

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    I am not worried about a losing mentality as long as Casey is coaching. More ping pong balls please

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And it didn't get the Raptors in to the top 3 either - despite finishing 3rd worst.

    The top 3 teams will not be 1, 2, and 3. Hopefully the Raptors get one of the top three picks like NJ (#3) and LAC (#8) did last year.... of course, those teams traded their picks. Lesson here: always top 3 protect your pick!
    Utah (via NJ) was #6 in the draft order when they won the 3rd pick. I do agree.. let's hope the Raps win a spot in the top 3. #1 would be outstanding, but I'd settle for #2 or #3

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Utah (via NJ) was #6 in the draft order when they won the 3rd pick. I do agree.. let's hope the Raps win a spot in the top 3. #1 would be outstanding, but I'd settle for #2 or #3
    Right on with Utah/NJ..... a slip on my part.

    I would love top 3. One of MKG or Beal would be great. As would trading down if one of those guys will still be around 5/6 and another team wants to get Drummond or Robinson while giving up an asset. Have I mentioned Wesley Matthews lately (sarcasm on my part, I mentioned him a few times)? Love that guy.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    LOL, I honestly didn't remember until you mentioned it.

    Either way, that loss didn't seem to affect anyone during training camp.
    Winning this game will be a bitter pill to swallow - probably leading to an erosion of the fan base long term.
    A win is a twisted dagger in the hearts of the fans hopes and dreams for the future!! The promise of great things to come is the only reason to be a fan of this team. One hurtful win after countless losses will also leave a stain of mismanagement and resentment on the organization.

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