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Thread: Casey setting the bar for next season: Playoffs

  1. #41
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is your opinion.

    Your opinion appears to be that the foundation is a player.

    My opinion is the foundation is the philosophy of the team (players, coaches, management) and everyone must be on the same page. This year has been very successful in changing the minds of what people who matter (i.e. other NBA coaches and players) think of when they hear Toronto Raptors. Toronto is no longer a joke and if you don't bring your game, they are going to beat you.

    Successful teams (i.e. championship and deep playoff runs) are built on more than talented players. They are important, very important, but they are not the only important ingredient in the recipe.
    You just mentioned all of the players and declared some of them as "pillars".

    Succesful championship teams are built on talented players with championship intangibles.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Maybe, but if they are saying that they are going to get experience, which most fans that have supported the rebuidling process have rejected as a short-term fix, why would I assume his comments were not exactly as he said them.

    To me, the fact that they said the emphsasis is to go get experienced players already indicates to me that they feel that they are going to try and win now, instead of taking a long-term plan like OKC did. Draft picks, and young players is building. Acquiring veterans for the purpose of making the playoffs is not.
    Should we assume that "experience" is synonymous with "aging veterans"? For example, Rudy Gay has experience, but he's got plenty of basketball life left in his tank. It's a win-now move that doesn't sacrifice the future.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    You just mentioned all of the players and declared some of them as "pillars".

    Succesful championship teams are built on talented players with championship intangibles.
    And pillars were not classified as the foundation.

    If I failed to explain my thoughts well enough, I apologize.

    I thought it was originally clear and the subsequent explanations and clarifications added clarity.

    If you still don't get my point or disagree with it - so be it.


    *EDIT*

    I'll take another stab at clarification because I don't think the term Pillar and Foundation is being used properly:

    foundation: The basis on which a thing stands, is founded, or is supported.

    pillar: A slender, freestanding, vertical support; a column.

    The philosophy and shift in priorities within the organization (management, coaches, players) was the foundation upon which everything moving forward will be built upon.

    The pillars are supports. The pillars reinforce the structure and are built upon the foundation.

    The role players are your windows, doors, cabinets, etc. They are important things in the structure and functioning of the house but can be replaced if need be.

    The fringe players are the interior paint. Easily changed at a moments notice.



    Again, if you still don't agree, in the words of Derrick Coleman: Whoop De Damn Doo.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 03:41 PM.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Alright let me set this straight. The pillars/foundations whatever the hell you want to call them are:

    Bargnani
    DeRozan
    Valanciunas
    This years pick
    and maybe Ed Davis

    the rest we don't know yet. Think what you want but the players i listed will more than likely be here next season.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Rookie Holy Craptors's Avatar
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    Okay. So let's break this down, architecture style.

    You need pillars so you can reach your goal, otherwise you hit a glass ceiling. You also need a solid foundation, or else the structure won't be solid and you'll hit a wall. So if you have the pillars but no foundation, your attendance will go through the floor and criticism will go through the roof. But if you get the foundation without the pillars, you'll be knocking on the door of the playoffs, but ultimately on the outside looking in through a dirty window.

    And if you have no foundation AND no pillars...well, then you end up in the basement. Like Charlotte.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Alright let me set this straight. The pillars/foundations whatever the hell you want to call them are:

    Bargnani
    DeRozan
    Valanciunas
    This years pick
    and maybe Ed Davis

    the rest we don't know yet. Think what you want but the players i listed will more than likely be here next season.
    I think Davis has a 50/50 shot (at best) of sticking around. He'll be easier to trade than Amir, and one of them definitely has to go.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I think Davis has a 50/50 shot (at best) of sticking around. He'll be easier to trade than Amir, and one of them definitely has to go.
    ya you can go either way but i say go with Eddy D.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Rookie StaytheCourse's Avatar
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    Doug Smith (who sometimes seems to have some insider information) sees a pretty big overhaul coming:

    I think there will be at least a half dozen new players and maybe 3 or 4 in a nine-man rotation; there will be Valanciunas, a new starting 3; a back up 2 and perhaps a backup PG

    I think this just may be the case. BC is probably itching to pull the trigger on some big changes. I think Kleiza (amnesty?) - in spite of the J-V connection - and Amir are likely to go (glut at 4 spot) and maybe Bayliss (trade?) too!

    Other changes to bench players like Alabi and one of Magloire or Aaron Gray. Forbes and Anderson will get a shot but it remains to be seen if they're keepers. Ben Uzoh is probably moving on.

    There could be a lot of change coming, Smith may be right!
    Twitter:@coachclement

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  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote BCsMaBoi wrote: View Post
    Doug Smith (who sometimes seems to have some insider information) sees a pretty big overhaul coming:

    I think there will be at least a half dozen new players and maybe 3 or 4 in a nine-man rotation; there will be Valanciunas, a new starting 3; a back up 2 and perhaps a backup PG

    I think this just may be the case. BC is probably itching to pull the trigger on some big changes. I think Kleiza (amnesty?) - in spite of the J-V connection - and Amir are likely to go (glut at 4 spot) and maybe Bayliss (trade?) too!

    Other changes to bench players like Alabi and one of Magloire or Aaron Gray. Forbes and Anderson will get a shot but it remains to be seen if they're keepers. Ben Uzoh is probably moving on.

    There could be a lot of change coming, Smith may be right!
    I think he is more than itching. He said in the press conference he is rearing to go.

  10. #50
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is your opinion.

    Your opinion appears to be that the foundation is a player.

    My opinion is the foundation is the philosophy of the team (players, coaches, management) and everyone must be on the same page. This year has been very successful in changing the minds of what people who matter (i.e. other NBA coaches and players) think of when they hear Toronto Raptors. Toronto is no longer a joke and if you don't bring your game, they are going to beat you.

    Successful teams (i.e. championship and deep playoff runs) are built on more than talented players. They are important, very important, but they are not the only important ingredient in the recipe.
    +1

  11. #51
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    You just mentioned all of the players and declared some of them as "pillars".

    Succesful championship teams are built on talented players with championship intangibles.
    You could say that for every team than. Every team has talented players with intangibles to take them far. Look at Sacramento for example. Demarcus Cousins, Tyreke Evans, these guys are very, VERY talented players and have potential to separate from solid NBA pros to all-stars. Hell they are already by far solid NBA pros. They don't have the culture/coaching staff, they don't have the role pieces, and they're struggling to stay in Sacramento.

    Toronto has a very well developed/built foundation. Of pillars/players that can lead high positions on the team. JV, DD, AB. Players that can play smaller roles/veteran experience such as Kleiza, Calderon, Ed, Amir, James Johnson, Gray, Magloire. A very good coaching staff who has proved the change towards a defensive culture led by head coach Dwane Casey.

    All they need now, is to add more role players/talent TO the foundation.

    Good foundations are OKC - Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Perkins/Ibaka/very good role players (Cook, Maynor, Sefelosha,Collison) - Coach Brooks
    Spurs - Duncan/Parker/Ginobili/young and experienced bench/Role players(Blair, Jackson, Splitter, Green) - Coach Pop
    Celtics - The Old but Big Three/Rondo/Bench/(Bradley, Stiesma, Bass) - Coach Rivers
    Heat - Two and a half men/great surrounding shooters, defensive players, role players - Coach Spoelstra
    Bulls - Derrick Rose/Skilled front-court/Scoring shooting guard, defensive players, best 2nd unit - coach Thibodeau

    Those are foundations. They all have talent, but they are surrounded by role players and players who play to fit within the system of the team, laid down by the coaching staff.

  12. #52
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    i think the raptors didn't want to make the play offs this year so that being said its safe to say the the plan to get to the playoffs is about right

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Rookie StaytheCourse's Avatar
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    Quote ab7 wrote: View Post
    i think the raptors didn't want to make the play offs this year so that being said its safe to say the the plan to get to the playoffs is about right
    I can't agree with that statement, Casey is going to compete no matter what!

    Although Raptors were minus a number of guys -mostly for legitimate reasons - what the Nets did in that last game was absolutely scandalous. Still Casey will try to win with or without bona fide NBA'ers.

    Gotta respect the man for that! As someone pointed out elsewhere the only sure way Raptors could tank would be to banish DC from the bench.
    Twitter:@coachclement

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  14. #54
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    Well, they'll need 8 or 10 really good players first. Right now they have none. So they've got some work to do.

  15. #55
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    You just mentioned all of the players and declared some of them as "pillars".

    Succesful championship teams are built on talented players with championship intangibles.
    What are "intangibles"?

  16. #56
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    What are "intangibles"?
    Heart, desire, will-to-win.

    Characteristics or abilities that are not necessarily teachable or can be coached up in a player.

  17. #57
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    When BC trades this draft pick this year and starts loading up on FA and vet's, I hope the fanbase will ask "where did the rebuild go"?

  18. #58
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    This GM has no real long-term plan in place. It changes year to year.

    There are no real championship aspirations.

    It's all about keeping his job and trying to make the playoffs.

  19. #59
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Well, they'll need 8 or 10 really good players first. Right now they have none. So they've got some work to do.
    yes a 7ft power forward who is within his shooting range as soon as he steps in the building and a PG with 4.5 assist to turnover ratio (best in the league) are not good players.

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    yes a 7ft power forward who is within his shooting range as soon as he steps in the building and a PG with 4.5 assist to turnover ratio (best in the league) are not good players.
    "Really good" is a relative term.

    Are Bargnani and Calderon "really good" on a 23-win team devoid of talent? Yes.

    Are Bargnani and Calderon "really good" enough to lead us deep in the playoffs? Not likely.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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