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Thread: Casey setting the bar for next season: Playoffs

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    The analogy doesn't work. The Raptors aren't renovating their house. They don't have a house. In fact, the Raptors don't have any part of a house. The current state of the organization is the huge hole in the ground you dig before you lay the foundation. Not only don't they have a house, they haven't even started laying the foundation yet. There is one marginal NBA starter on this roster (Bargs). We don't know who the 2012 pick is and JV hasn't played a game. Should the focus of this team really be shifting to the playoffs at this stage? Isn't this wildly premature? Isn't this exactly what happened in 2006? Why the rush to repeat a process that's a proven failure?
    Are you confusing the Raptors with the Bobcats? I'm pretty sure we began laying down the foundation and now we are beginning to build up, As dwane casey stated.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Hey hey i think Demar and Ed should be included in this foundation of yours. Ed may not start but he will definitely be a key piece off the bench.
    With the way I looked at things in that comment, no players are in the foundation.

    You might argue ED or DD should be in the pillars with AB or JV though. I don't agree but that would fit better with my line of thinking.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    ED and DD are wayy more expendable than AB and JV.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    The analogy doesn't work. The Raptors aren't renovating their house. They don't have a house. In fact, the Raptors don't have any part of a house. The current state of the organization is the huge hole in the ground you dig before you lay the foundation. Not only don't they have a house, they haven't even started laying the foundation yet. There is one marginal NBA starter on this roster (Bargs). We don't know who the 2012 pick is and JV hasn't played a game. Should the focus of this team really be shifting to the playoffs at this stage? Isn't this wildly premature? Isn't this exactly what happened in 2006? Why the rush to repeat a process that's a proven failure?
    i think you're being too pessimistic here. bargs is definitely a starter in this league. 28 other teams would love bargs on their rosters.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Casey might be speaking from a future perspective. He may have an idea of what types of players or transactions are on the horizon. I fully expect come training camp the roster to be much different than it is today.

    The role players are in place (ED, AMIR, DD, JJ, LK, JC, maybe Aaron Gray)
    The fringe players don't matter (Uzoh, Alabi, Anderson, Forbes, Magloire)
    2 pillars are in place (AB and JV).

    What gets added this summer through draft, free agency, or trade is to be determined.


    Regardless of what pieces are added, there has been a shift in philosophy and expectation in the franchise. Is the house finished? Not yet but the most important part of the house is definitely done: the foundation.
    I feel it's too soon to call JV a pillar. Seeing he hasn't played one NBA game. His probably is untouchable but pillar that's a lil too much.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I feel it's too soon to call JV a pillar. Seeing he hasn't played one NBA game. His probably is untouchable but pillar that's a lil too much.
    Fair enough.

    But if he was in this draft he'd be going 2 and if this was last year's draft again, he'd be going 2.

    You don't draft a guy #2 (or #5) not thinking he will be a pillar.

    He hasn't proved d!ck yet so in theory I agree with what you are saying. But every struggling and rebuilding franchise is looking at a high lotto pick as something to build on or with.

    I can't wait for next season.

  7. #27
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ...I can't wait for next season.
    Or even this coming off-season :-)

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Out of, Bayless, Alabi, Uzoh, Anderson, Magloire, Gray, (Weems). Which ones do you re-sign which ones do you replace in free agency? Right away Our two first round picks replace two of these players. What happens to the rest?

    I would replace Weems and Anderson not sure about the rest yet...
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  9. #29
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    I am not a good proponent of beating the playoffs drum this early, especially when even a single move hasn't yet been made to improve the roster.
    Granted, JV is coming over, but my expectations of him in the first season is putting up Amir-like numbers, around 9ppg and 7rpg and being slightly better than Ed Davis. That's all. IMO He'll need at least 2 but most likely 3 seasons before he takes his leap. More importantly, let's see how the cap space is used in a not-so-rich FA coming up and who we draft and get an idea of the future roster at least on paper.
    Last edited by playmak3r5; Thu Apr 26th, 2012 at 11:02 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Out of, Bayless, Alabi, Uzoh, Anderson, Magloire, Gray, (Weems). Which ones do you re-sign which ones do you replace in free agency? Right away Our two first round picks replace two of these players. What happens to the rest?

    I would replace Weems and Anderson not sure about the rest yet...
    We keep Anderson, Gray, and likely Magloire. Everyone else goes.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote playmak3r5 wrote: View Post
    We keep Anderson, Gray, and likely Magloire. Everyone else goes.
    only gray and magloire for me. id rather klieza play play the 4 or jj instead of anderson. bayless is a fencer right now depending on what kind of price the open market puts on him.

  12. #32
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    I think the playoffs have to be a goal for next year. Raptor fans are not Leaf fans and will not continue to sell-out every game no matter what the record. Somehow I don't think Casey has that attitude, either. I'm not being unrealistic and expecting a deep playoff run, but for me at least making it in is a must-have. People will argue that a first round loss is worse as it lowers your draft pick, but that is BS now. Toronto is never going to be as bad as Charlotte, so I would MUCH prefer to see post season games than a chance at a slightly higher pick. Let players see what the ACC can be like in the playoffs, even if its only for a game or two. That's my interpretation of what Casey said.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Rookie Holy Craptors's Avatar
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    The NBA is a really hard league to re-build in. I don't envy the job that the Raps' front office has to do.

    How can you go from a basement-dwelling team to a playoff contender? (And by contender, I mean actually a threat to go deep, not just to sneak in at 8th place and be out in 4 games.) Generally, you need a lot of money, a lot of luck, brilliant management, or a combination of all the above.

    I like the point someone made about a "foundation" not necessarily being an all-star or two, but a philosophy. This seems to be part of what happened in Denver this year, where an un-spectacular cast did some impressive things. The way Dallas went from nothing in the 90s to a perennial contender...well, I guess they had Nowitzki as a foundation, but from what I've read and seen, Mark Cuban changed the "culture" in Dallas, and that led to long-term success.

    Having said that, even if you do all the right things from the management point of view, you set a good tone of solid defense, etc etc etc...there's still a lot of luck and things you can't control. Injuries, first-rounders not working out, players requesting trades because they don't want to live in Canada.

    I guess all you can do is manage the team as best you can, control the things that are within your control, and hope for the best.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Holy Craptors wrote: View Post
    The NBA is a really hard league to re-build in. I don't envy the job that the Raps' front office has to do.

    How can you go from a basement-dwelling team to a playoff contender? (And by contender, I mean actually a threat to go deep, not just to sneak in at 8th place and be out in 4 games.) Generally, you need a lot of money, a lot of luck, brilliant management, or a combination of all the above.

    I like the point someone made about a "foundation" not necessarily being an all-star or two, but a philosophy. This seems to be part of what happened in Denver this year, where an un-spectacular cast did some impressive things. The way Dallas went from nothing in the 90s to a perennial contender...well, I guess they had Nowitzki as a foundation, but from what I've read and seen, Mark Cuban changed the "culture" in Dallas, and that led to long-term success.

    Having said that, even if you do all the right things from the management point of view, you set a good tone of solid defense, etc etc etc...there's still a lot of luck and things you can't control. Injuries, first-rounders not working out, players requesting trades because they don't want to live in Canada.

    I guess all you can do is manage the team as best you can, control the things that are within your control, and hope for the best.
    Colangelo has done it twice.

    In Phoenix he took them from 22 wins to a perennial top team. Who knows what would have happened if Sarver would have gone in to the luxury tax - keeping Joe Johnson when he was a free agent and Luol Deng as a rookie immediately comes to mind.

    In Toronto he took a 27 win team to 47 wins. Unfortunately that was not built to last.

    Whatever happens in Toronto, I hope something is built that last longer than 2 seasons and 2 first round exits in the playoffs.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie Holy Craptors's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Colangelo has done it twice.

    In Phoenix he took them from 22 wins to a perennial top team. Who knows what would have happened if Sarver would have gone in to the luxury tax - keeping Joe Johnson when he was a free agent and Luol Deng as a rookie immediately comes to mind.

    In Toronto he took a 27 win team to 47 wins. Unfortunately that was not built to last.

    Whatever happens in Toronto, I hope something is built that last longer than 2 seasons and 2 first round exits in the playoffs.
    Is was impressive when Toronto made that leap in 2006-07, and I agree that Colangelo did a great job. Do you think that their success that year was exaggerated by a weak division? It was Boston pre-Big 3, Knicks and Sixers rebuilding, etc.

    Not trying to take anything away from Colangelo...just the opposite, actually; maybe that initial success made us judge the following seasons with unfair expectations?

  16. #36
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    Sometimes I question Colangelo. I mean it should have been evident he couldn't sign Barnes and he still tried. Was it a bonehead move or was he tryin to pull one over the nba?
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    "Past the building stage" doesn't mean "building is over". Do you think Casey feels this team can win next year as is just by telling the guys "ok, now our focus is winning so win"?

    The more I think about his statements the more I think he's only talking about the establishment of the system. He's been building that all season and maybe he feels the foundation is in place and next year he's going with guys who produce as opposed to calling a guy's number just to get him minutes and to see what he can do.
    The man said it's "past the building stage". Why infer something else into that?

    They are one year into a rebuild and now the building is over? No, the building should just be starting.

  18. #38
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If we're going strictly by Casey's quote, then he did imply that building is over. You can't go past a "stage" while continuing to stay within it.

    But from a general view of the state of the franchise, it's clear that Casey's not done building. The guys still have a lot to learn about winning consistently.
    Maybe, but if they are saying that they are going to get experience, which most fans that have supported the rebuidling process have rejected as a short-term fix, why would I assume his comments were not exactly as he said them.

    To me, the fact that they said the emphsasis is to go get experienced players already indicates to me that they feel that they are going to try and win now, instead of taking a long-term plan like OKC did. Draft picks, and young players is building. Acquiring veterans for the purpose of making the playoffs is not.

  19. #39
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Casey might be speaking from a future perspective. He may have an idea of what types of players or transactions are on the horizon. I fully expect come training camp the roster to be much different than it is today.

    The role players are in place (ED, AMIR, DD, JJ, LK, JC, maybe Aaron Gray)
    The fringe players don't matter (Uzoh, Alabi, Anderson, Forbes, Magloire)
    2 pillars are in place (AB and JV).

    What gets added this summer through draft, free agency, or trade is to be determined.


    Regardless of what pieces are added, there has been a shift in philosophy and expectation in the franchise. Is the house finished? Not yet but the most important part of the house is definitely done: the foundation.
    2 Pillars? Really?

    That is not a foundation. A rook who while might turn otu to be good, you don't know what you are going to get yet and a high paid average scorer?

  20. #40
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Tim Duncan is a foundation. Lebron James, Durant, Kobe, Nash, Rose, Griffin, Nowitzki, Pierce. Those guys are foundations. Pairs like Gasol/Randolph, Jefferson/Milsap - those are foundations. Groups like Afflalo/Lawson/Gallo can be foundations.

    The Raptors do not have a foundation. Building your basketball team on top of Bargnani is like building your house with a base of paper mache. Now, if JV and the 2012 pick turn out to be stars, then you've got a foundation. But that is far from a certainty.
    Agree and support this opinion 100%.

    Didn't most of the "true rebuild" fans dread this attitude from management earlier on in the year?

    What's changed?

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