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Thread: everyone do me a favor

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Going by that logic, we would likely lose a series against Charlotte.

    Really don't think you can put too much stock in regular series matchups and point differential.
    Good point.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Anyone who thinks that is delusional - no arguments from me.

    However there is a fine line between delusion and the other extreme which many are bringing around here.

    Defense does win in the NBA. Toronto was 9th in opponents scoring. Something much bigger - much, much, much bigger - that I have brought up this year a few times is their opposition field goal percentage. Toronto was tied for 6th with Dallas and Indiana and they were just 0.1% behind Miami at 5th. http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2012.html

    A lot of good was done this year and the team is in much better shape moving forward than many give credit for.
    That's why even "sneaking in" the last playoff spot is intruiging for the Raps next year. Casey is built for the playoffs.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  3. #23
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    Just wanted to add to this that last night's Indiana vs Orlando game was a perfect example of why you need at least one but preferably multiple guys that can either command a double team or simply score at will in single coverage when you reach the playoffs. As much as we like to laud teams like Memphis and Indiana for succeeding in the regular season without a true elite offensive player, the inability to generate easy buckets on open looks down the stretch of a game makes you very vulnerable to upsets like this one.

    It's the reason why so many so many of us are wary of BC's plan to improve drastically next year. Unless he can somehow pull a franchise player out of his hat, the team won't be set up for meaningful long-term success, just short-term gratification.

  4. #24
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Just wanted to add to this that last night's Indiana vs Orlando game was a perfect example of why you need at least one but preferably multiple guys that can either command a double team or simply score at will in single coverage when you reach the playoffs. As much as we like to laud teams like Memphis and Indiana for succeeding in the regular season without a true elite offensive player, the inability to generate easy buckets on open looks down the stretch of a game makes you very vulnerable to upsets like this one.

    It's the reason why so many so many of us are wary of BC's plan to improve drastically next year. Unless he can somehow pull a franchise player out of his hat, the team won't be set up for meaningful long-term success, just short-term gratification.
    Surely you must know that the only way a team in the lower echelon of teams in the league (eg Raptors) can get the "franchise player" is thru the draft or via free agency (no one is going to trade one to you). And in our case free agency still seems to be problematic. It is why I have been rather "despondent" about our place in the draft (with only the lottery as saviour) after going thru such a lousy season.

    Again, your post like the OP seems to be alluding to a supposed rampant pov on the site which believes that there will be a sea change of talent upgrade in the team allowing it to go deep in the playoffs. At least I get that vibe. I frequent the site regularly and fail to see this among the realistic optimists. At this point it is rather ludicrous for anyone to postulate what this team looks like at the start of next season and thus have a semi informed opinion of the team one way or another. This is going to be at least a 2-3 yr slog to semi respectability (second round playoff team). And even for that, that elusive element called "luck" has to go our way. No delusions here whether it's BC or anyone else at the helm.
    Last edited by Bendit; Sun Apr 29th, 2012 at 02:46 PM.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Nobody's dillusional, everybody has knows the team currently and thispast season sucked.

    They'retalking about the future that hasn't happened yet. So, you can't be dillussional. Over excited or hyped, yes.

    The playoffs are an entirely different animal.

    These are what teams fight for and they step up when they're in it. We're not a playoff team, plain and sim

  6. #26
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Again, your post like the OP seems to be alluding to a supposed rampant pov on the site which believes that there will be a sea change of talent upgrade in the team allowing it to go deep in the playoffs. At least I get that vibe. I frequent the site regularly and fail to see this among the realistic optimists.
    Among the realistic optimists? No. Among a lot of other posters? Yes. In BC's end-of-year comments about 'drastically' improving the talent level of the club? Yes. The guy's job is on the line and he has a history of swinging for the fences. Of course I'm worried. I fully agree that nobody is expecting deep playoff runs, but what bothers me is how many posters are okay with the idea of blowing their cap space on short term fixes and chasing a first round playoff exit rather than building for deeper playoff runs down the line. That was the point I was trying to make, the 'drastically' part comes from BC's own comments.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I'm sure there are some who believe that once you're in the playoffs, anything is possible.

    Although this is technically true, a low seed making a deep run isn't very likely to happen in the NBA (compared to the NHL), as there is clear separation between championship contenders, and the rest of the playoff field.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    The way DC had the team working their butts off this year, i wouldnt be surprised if Toronto gave the Knicks a run for their money

  9. #29
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Just wanted to add to this that last night's Indiana vs Orlando game was a perfect example of why you need at least one but preferably multiple guys that can either command a double team or simply score at will in single coverage when you reach the playoffs. As much as we like to laud teams like Memphis and Indiana for succeeding in the regular season without a true elite offensive player, the inability to generate easy buckets on open looks down the stretch of a game makes you very vulnerable to upsets like this one.
    This argument is completely flawed.

    Orlando won that game against Indiana, correct?

    Without their best player and Completely outmanned in terms of the depth chart?

    So who is Orlando's "Guy that can command a double team or score at will"?


    Playoff Basketball is TEAM basketball.
    If you can play as a team, you have a chance in the playoffs.
    Memphis last year was a perfect example.
    Last edited by Joey; Mon Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:38 AM.
    In Masai we Trust.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I general, I agree with Lark. The NBA is a game of matchups, and having a player who can demand double teams makes the offense flow that much easier.

    Can teams without such a player pull out victories? Well yes. As Joey mentioned, the Magic did so the other night. The Raptors have done so without Bargnani in the lineup. But to do so regularly isn't easy.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  11. #31
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Can teams without such a player pull out victories? Well yes. As Joey mentioned, the Magic did so the other night. The Raptors have done so without Bargnani in the lineup. But to do so regularly isn't easy.
    As my father likes to say "If it were easy, then everyone would be doing it." haha

    I think its a double edged sword. Miami had that player that could take over the game ... or lose it for you in the 4th quarter.
    Teams that don't rely on one player to do all the heavy lifting, generally have a more well rounded team, and are capable of withstanding games where your 'main guy' has a off game, or off quarter.
    In Masai we Trust.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I agree that you need complimentary pieces who are capable of picking up the slack.

    But if we're attempting to follow a championship guide to roster building, we need that double-team threat.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  13. #33
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    The original poster is wrong about Bargnani. Regardless of how good he is overall, he is absolutely capable of carrying an offensive load in the playoffs. 7 footers who can drive, post up, and have three-point range do not suddenly turn to pumpkins in the playoffs.

  14. #34
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    Quote malefax wrote: View Post
    The original poster is wrong about Bargnani. Regardless of how good he is overall, he is absolutely capable of carrying an offensive load in the playoffs. 7 footers who can drive, post up, and have three-point range do not suddenly turn to pumpkins in the playoffs.
    you put a smaller sf/pf athletic guy on bargnani, say lebron for example, 1) he isn't going to blow past lebron 2) lebron would do an excellent job fronting bargnani and denying him the ball in good position the post 3) all he can do is shoot over people. and I am not sure at what efficiency he would be hitting those low percentage shots, especially with a defender who has enough desire to get right into his face.

    In the playoffs, b/c you are playing the same team night in night out, coaches can much more effectively prepare a way to neutralize all the advantadges bargnani or ANY player for that matter has. And the only thing that is going to work is a player with the TALENT to execute offensively through tough defense, in other words a star that simply can't be stopped.

    Another thing you can bet on is a player's weaknesses will also be magnified in the playoffs. Bargnani is not the strongest interior defender is he? Other coaches will pick up on this and use this to their advantadge and continue to attack the paint once they realize how poor bargnani is at rotating and playing help defense.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I am not a fan of Bargnani by any means, but Lebron is a freak and can guard virtually anyone. Using Lebron in your example is a very poor one because he could do that against anybody. Just look at what he did to Rose last year, or to Carmelo in the first game this year. When Lebron's game is on, he is actually pretty amazing.

  16. #36
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I am not a fan of Bargnani by any means, but Lebron is a freak and can guard virtually anyone. Using Lebron in your example is a very poor one because he could do that against anybody. Just look at what he did to Rose last year, or to Carmelo in the first game this year. When Lebron's game is on, he is actually pretty amazing.
    fine, another athletic sf/pf then, I still think my point holds. you did a very poor job trying to discredit my argument.

  17. #37
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    watch the playoffs, look how tight the defense is. Guys are sacrificing their bodies to get stops. How do you score? with star power, how do you win? with spectacular offensive and defensive execution w/ guys with TALENT as well as chemistry.

    Im watching this miami game right now, and I don't think bargnani would even be able to get 5 pts by halftime, hell he probably wouldn't even be able to get a decent look in the post, that's how tight guys are playing their man.

    And derozan? say goodbye to your free points at the free throw line, guys are mentally tough and simply aren't fouling. And he is going to have to play twice as aggressive as he currently does just to get a call.

    Just want to remind everyone how talent wins in the playoffs, and how far we are from acquiring the talent necessary to succeed in the playoffs. stay grounded you optimistic fools.
    just enjoy the games man...we all know that we stunk this year... you want an easier life, be a Lakers fan

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    fine, another athletic sf/pf then, I still think my point holds. you did a very poor job trying to discredit my argument.
    I wasn't trying to discredit your argument though. I do agree that Bargnani is not the answer in the playoffs. I think he could be okay in the right match up but overall I don't have faith in him. I am not a fan of Bargnani as I stated.

    I was just implying that using Lebron as an example when describing a guy who would be hard to play against is a very bad one since 99% of the league would have a hard time playing against Lebron.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I am not a fan of Bargnani by any means, but Lebron is a freak and can guard virtually anyone. Using Lebron in your example is a very poor one because he could do that against anybody. Just look at what he did to Rose last year, or to Carmelo in the first game this year. When Lebron's game is on, he is actually pretty amazing.
    Agreed, like in this video


  20. #40
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I wasn't trying to discredit your argument though. I do agree that Bargnani is not the answer in the playoffs. I think he could be okay in the right match up but overall I don't have faith in him. I am not a fan of Bargnani as I stated.

    I was just implying that using Lebron as an example when describing a guy who would be hard to play against is a very bad one since 99% of the league would have a hard time playing against Lebron.
    my bad yo, I though you were just simply trying to knock me down a peg like everyone else.

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