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Thread: Raptors take on salary for a New Orleans lottery pick

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GoHuskies wrote: View Post
    I'm fine with packaging in DeRozan too but I would throw in the (2) 2nd rounders as well as swap the #8 for the #10 so we end up taking 2 salaries but end up with the #4 and #10 picks. NO ends up with 3 younger & cheaper players plus (2) 2nd picks , leaving them with lots of cap space while still having quality bodies to fill the voids.

    I'm wondering if we aren't going to try to hold onto Bayless if maybe we can't get a late 1st rounder from Chicago for him in a sign and trade? Bayless & Alabi for CJ Watson and the 30th pick?

    I like the idea of trying to sign Ilyasova and we probably stand a decent chance considering he is UFA, if this was the only FA signing we needed to make then I think the salary for Okafor and Ariza is manageable for a couple of years while the young studs mature.....and again leaving us with large cap space in a couple of years.

    Draft Ideas based on above would be as follows

    #4 Bradley Beal SG
    #10 Kendall Marshall PG
    # 30 Augusto Lima (Brazil) PF


    2012-2013 Line Up

    PG Calderon / Marshall / Watson
    SG Beal / Forbes / Anderson
    SF Ilyasova / Ariza / Kleiza
    PF Bargnani / Davis / Lima (project)
    C Valanciunas / Okafor / Magloire

    I think the Raptors have to go out and spend a little money this year and if we are spending it and still stockpiling talent then why not.

    After 2013 we will have 17M in expiring contracts ( Calderon/ Forbes/Anderson/Watson/Magloire)

    After 2014 season we will have another 28M in expiring contracts (Okafor/Ariza/Kleiza)

    So I know there are a lot of IFs and ANDs but to paint a full picture you pretty much have to do that........let the shredding begin......
    If the Raps took on Okafor and Ariza, they would be limited to exceptions and minimum contracts in free agency. I don't think they get Ilyasova with that.

    I would be all for what you propose but I'm not sure NOH would be down with it.... but who knows?

  2. #22
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Another option would be to leave Ariza out of the trade.

    TO TORONTO
    - Okafor
    - top-7 pick

    TO NEW ORLEANS
    - Amir, JJ, Forbes
    - both 2nd round picks (#38 & #56)
    - possibly a top-3 protected future 1st round pick*
    - a $3.2M TPE would be generated, based on 2012-2013 salaries of the four players involved

    * if NO wants another 1st round pick this year, Toronto could look to purchase a mid-late 1st round pick for the typical $3M price


    New Orleans
    - saves $3.2M next season, $8M the following season and then has to pay $7M the next year for Amir's last season ($4.2M savings total)
    - still has one mid-lottery pick
    - adds 2 2nd round picks
    - adds 1 future 1st round pick (or perhaps another mid-late 1st round pick this year)
    - gets 3 rotation players; both Johnsons could be starters

    Toronto
    - gets veteran C to backup Valanciunas
    - gets additional lottery pick (to ideally draft Beal & Marshall)
    - preserves about $8M in cap space to go after Batum, Mayo or AK47
    - still has the $7M Barbosa TPE to use later (perhaps even for a pre-arranged deal with NO to trade for Ariza's salary as a "thank you")


    Toronto Lineup
    C: Valanciunas, Okafor, Magloire
    PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
    SF: DeRozan, Ariza, Kleiza
    SG: Mayo, Beal
    PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue May 1st, 2012 at 04:37 PM.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    I don't kow if I like the idea of essentially dealing two good reserves in JJ and Amir just to get essentially a pick that's potentially 2 spots higher than where we might select- AND have an albatross on our payroll for the next 2 seasons. I know that's the popular idea floating around, but it's giving me an ulcer just worrying about it.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't kow if I like the idea of essentially dealing two good reserves in JJ and Amir just to get essentially a pick that's potentially 2 spots higher than where we might select- AND have an albatross on our payroll for the next 2 seasons. I know that's the popular idea floating around, but it's giving me an ulcer just worrying about it.
    I guess I look at it like this:

    1) I average out Okafor & Beal's salaries, and think how good Beal could be long-term, knowing Okafor has value next season as a $14M expiring contract (or just letting him go for cap space just two summers from now)

    2) Either Amir/Davis need to go, and I'd rather dump the more expensive option (which is roughly the same as the average salary of Okafor/Beal)

    3) I personally don't like JJ and think he's overrated. The thought of being able to add a Batum/Mayo/AK47 to replace him in the starting lineup makes me giddy

    4) Forbes is a depth player, destined to be 3rd string SG at best next season, so no big loss

    5) 2 2nd round picks aren't that big a deal to give up, especially when your 12-man roster can be filled out with such strong talent

    6) I really don't envision this lineup missing the Johnsons or Forbes too much:
    Toronto Lineup
    C: Valanciunas, Okafor, Magloire
    PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
    SF: DeRozan, Ariza, Kleiza
    SG: Mayo, Beal
    PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh

  5. #25
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I guess I look at it like this:

    1) I average out Okafor & Beal's salaries, and think how good Beal could be long-term, knowing Okafor has value next season as a $14M expiring contract (or just letting him go for cap space just two summers from now)

    2) Either Amir/Davis need to go, and I'd rather dump the more expensive option (which is roughly the same as the average salary of Okafor/Beal)

    3) I personally don't like JJ and think he's overrated. The thought of being able to add a Batum/Mayo/AK47 to replace him in the starting lineup makes me giddy

    4) Forbes is a depth player, destined to be 3rd string SG at best next season, so no big loss

    5) 2 2nd round picks aren't that big a deal to give up, especially when your 12-man roster can be filled out with such strong talent

    6) I really don't envision this lineup missing the Johnsons or Forbes too much:
    Toronto Lineup
    C: Valanciunas, Okafor, Magloire
    PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
    SF: DeRozan, Ariza, Kleiza
    SG: Mayo, Beal
    PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
    At this point, you're assuming way too much. You're assuming Beal will be there when the Hornets selection is to be made - which is the biggest cog in all of this.

    You're assuming Memphis doesn't pick up the QO for Mayo or that he would want to sign here.

    And Demar struggles to play the 3.. especially with his lack of handles..and an inconsistent outside shot.

    Too many 'what if's'.

    I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to be disappointed coming into next season.
    Last edited by MangoKid; Tue May 1st, 2012 at 06:26 PM.

  6. #26
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    Little tweak to a previous thought , I know its a long shot but I am thinking all parties involved are getting fair share although I am sure some will disagree.

    Trade as follows

    Toronto gets Okafor , Ariza and B Jennings

    New Orleans gets Davis, James Johnson , Kleiza , Calderon and 3 million ( saving them over 16m in 2 season plus large expiring contract for next year , also leaving room and money to resign Eric Gordon)

    Milwaukee gets NOH pick #10 , TO Pick #37 , IND Pick #57 plus 2013 1st rounder ( top 3 protected) from TO

    Buy # 30 pick from Chicago for Cash

    Sign Nic Batum for 6-8M , Sign Diaw with exception @ 4-5m

    Draft Marshall with #8 , Darius Miller or Jae Crowder with #30

    2012-13 Line up

    PG Jennings (3.1m) / Marshall (2.1m) / Uzoh (0.5m)

    SG DeRozan (3.3m) / Bayless (4.1m) / Forbes (1.5m)

    SF Nic Batum (6-8m) / Ariza (7.2m) / Darius Miller or Jae Crowder (0.9m)

    PF Bargnani (10m) / Amir (6m) / Diaw (4-5m)

    C Valanciunas (2.8m) / Okafor (13.5m) / Magloire (0.9m)
    Last edited by GoHuskies; Wed May 9th, 2012 at 12:23 PM.

  7. #27
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    While I am intrigued by the notion of taking on the Okafor contract in return for a pick, I am certain of two things.
    1. New Orleans would never give up their pick which is currently #4, they may consider their pick which is currently #10.
    2. If NO were to consider this type of trade they would only do so if they saved a very large amount of money, so we could not send back much in the way of salaries.

    How would we feel about

    1. JJ + both seconds for Okafor + #10

    Or

    2. Amir + JJ + both seconds for Okafor + Ariza + #10

    I like #2 better, but I think NO less likely to take it.

    I am a proponent of drafting risky upside, so I would look at PJ3 and Lillard (for Marshall lovers I think he's gonna slide to late teens)

    Roster would look like

    C Val/Okafor/gray or magloire
    PF Bargs/Davis/Kleiza
    SF Ariza/Jones/Anderson
    SG DeRozan/Mid Level Guy (shooter)/Bayless (or S&T shooter)
    PG Calderon/Lillard/Bi-annual guy (lock down defender type)

  8. #28
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    It can be difficult in cases like this to establish another teams price for how they value what they have, but New Orleans seems to be down-playing the value of having a second pick. Here is a recent quote from Monty Williams:

    "I don't see this deep draft everybody is talking about," Williams tells The Times-Picayune. "I think there are a few players at the top that are really good that can be good players. But I don't see any Carmelos [Carmelo Anthony] or LeBrons [LeBron James]."

    "I don't think you're going to find a Manu Ginobili at 52," Williams said. "The last few weeks I've had a chance to look at all these young guys on tape and I'm not jaded by the hoopla as everybody else is. I think there are good players, but I don't see this deep draft."
    If Williams' thoughts about the draft are shared by the rest of the organization then I could see this type of trade as being a possibility if they are provided with a couple pieces they would like.

  9. #29
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Here's the trade: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7pzhhqo

    To TORONTO
    - Emeka Okafor
    - Trevor Ariza
    - lottery pick

    To NEW ORLEANS
    - Amir Johnson
    - James Johnson
    - Gary Forbes
    - $6.79M TPE
    - 2nd round pick (#56, from Indiana)

    New Orleans' perspective
    - unload 2 horrible contracts, freeing up $6.8M next year and lots more over next 5 years
    - both Johnsons likely in starting lineup next season
    - get TPE to use in trade
    - still have a lottery pick
    - add 2nd round pick

    Toronto's perspective
    - use Barbosa TPE to add salary in exchange for additional lottery pick
    - acquire 2 defensive-minded veterans
    - draft Beal with New Orleans' pick
    - draft Marshall with own pick
    - sign O.J. Mayo or Kirilenko as free agent


    TORONTO LINEUP
    C: Valanciunas, Okafor
    PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
    SF: DeRozan/Kirilenko, Ariza, Kleiza
    SG: Mayo/DeRozan, Beal
    PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
    Wow, this trade absolutely sucks from the Hornets perspective.

    If they need to unload salaries - and we're not talking about Agent Zero or Baron Davis type contracts here - I believe the Hornets will find a taker which will accept a much lower price.

  10. #30
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Here's the trade: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7pzhhqo

    To TORONTO
    - Emeka Okafor
    - Trevor Ariza
    - lottery pick

    To NEW ORLEANS
    - Amir Johnson
    - James Johnson
    - Gary Forbes
    - $6.79M TPE
    - 2nd round pick (#56, from Indiana)

    New Orleans' perspective
    - unload 2 horrible contracts, freeing up $6.8M next year and lots more over next 5 years
    - both Johnsons likely in starting lineup next season
    - get TPE to use in trade
    - still have a lottery pick
    - add 2nd round pick

    Toronto's perspective
    - use Barbosa TPE to add salary in exchange for additional lottery pick
    - acquire 2 defensive-minded veterans
    - draft Beal with New Orleans' pick
    - draft Marshall with own pick
    - sign O.J. Mayo or Kirilenko as free agent


    TORONTO LINEUP
    C: Valanciunas, Okafor
    PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
    SF: DeRozan/Kirilenko, Ariza, Kleiza
    SG: Mayo/DeRozan, Beal
    PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
    I'd do it in a sec, but NO has a new (loaded) owner & I don't believe he is desperate to save money. The only way he will do a trade is if it improves a team.
    The above deal with 2 teams just swapping picks. I'd still do it as JV likely will not be a major contributor for 1-3 years (by then Okafor is don as a Raptor).

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