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Thread: ESPN Mock Draft 4.0: Raptors select Damian Lillard

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Default ESPN Mock Draft 4.0: Raptors select Damian Lillard



    Analysis: The Raptors need help at both the wing and the point. Lillard can play some of both. His versatility and ability to shoot and score the basketball should serve them well.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i could live with lillard. as mentioned, he could come off the bench and play both guard spots.

    i know a few here will say "but we already have bayless!!1" buuuuuut yeah. i'd rather roll with lillard. i watched the last few games of his and was really impressed. dude is a unreal scorer.
    @jerboat

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    If stuck with the #8-10 pick, I'd rather draft Marshall.

    At least that way the Raps can groom the future floor general PG, instead of rolling the dice with another shoot-first combo guard type of PG (ie: Ford, Jack, Bayless...). I don't like Bayless, but don't see how Lillard is much of an upgrade over Bayless, aside from the lure of the unknown and the hope he can become more of a true PG without losing his scoring touch (which Bayless has proven he unable to do thus far).

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If stuck with the #8-10 pick, I'd rather draft Marshall.
    +1

    Marshal = Andre Miller
    Lillard = less potent more selfish Russel westbrook

    Other thing to consider Kendall went up against much better talent - don't be dismissive of that.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I am not so sure about Lillard. The guy had no competition. I think its too risky to get him at #8. PG is a need but more so for 2013/2014 than next year. I'd rather spend the 2nd rounder on a PG (like Machado) and use the first rounder for a guy like PJ3 or TJones.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    now i want you to know i don't think Lillard absolutely must be our dude, i'm just saying i wouldn't be mad if he was our pick. i don't really like the idea of trading out or down, so if we're rolling with #8 i'd rather take a guy with high talent that knows how to use it and isn't borderline retarded like PJ3.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i'm starting to come off like a crazed groupie so i'm going to step away for a bit
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    That guy has the biggest lips I have ever seen. For that, and many other reasons, I would rather take Kendall Marshall if we pick 8. I really think that Jose, bayless, and Marshall is a good to very good back court.

    Take the cap space and go get upgrades elsewhere.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I get your point about high school players, but I like a PG who can dish the ball. He averaged about 4 assists, and had 2.3 turnovers.. he's not going to score like that in the NBA, especially at his size. If he was a wing and could play like that, then I'm all in - but a PG?

    He'd have to play SG, and I think he's too small. Reminds me of Curry in that regards. A good player but has a serious deficiency and is why I'd pass on him.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I get your point about high school players, but I like a PG who can dish the ball. He averaged about 4 assists, and had 2.3 turnovers.. he's not going to score like that in the NBA, especially at his size. If he was a wing and could play like that, then I'm all in - but a PG?

    He'd have to play SG, and I think he's too small. Reminds me of Curry in that regards. A good player but has a serious deficiency and is why I'd pass on him.
    i get why people like a pass first PG and all that, but outside of chris paul and steve nash there aren't many elite guards that are the traditional pass first type anymore. you look at guys like derek rose (RIP) or westbrook and while they're not pass first they certainly get the job done. we're in a era where scoring guards are coming to the fore. it is what it is, i don't know what more i can say.

    he's clearly a scorer, but i don't even know what his QB qualities are really like, his teammates at Weber were abysmal. he was literally a one man wrecking crew. but the point is, he got it done. which is more than i can say about a few of the other prospects in our range.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i think with the "level of competition" argument you have to look at whether or not they dominated. it's not Lillard or any other shitty conference players fault where they play, but when they did play, how did they fare? Lillard was pretty unfuckwitable (thats a word i just made up) in school, so he certainly can ball. if "level of competition" was such a important thing, then why were high school players taken so high? it's all based on talent, and i think Lillard has a ton of it.
    @jerboat

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    if "level of competition" was such a important thing, then why were high school players taken so high? it's all based on talent, and i think Lillard has a ton of it.
    This

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    who here has heard of this guy? he might be a steal if we trade down.
    what do you guys think about drafting Harkless and why?

    Harkless won Big East Rookie of the Year honors, averaging 15.5 points and 8.6 rebounds for the Red Storm. His 32 points in his conference debut against Providence set a conference record for scoring in a player's first Big East game, bettering marks set by Georgetown's Allen Iverson and Notre Dame's Troy Murphy.

    An athletic 6-foot-8, Harkless is an even worse 3-point shooter than Kidd-Gilchrist (21.5 percent). But Harkless was on a preposterously young St. John's team -- he was one of nine freshmen who played for coach Steve Lavin -- and he was one of the best players on that team. Despite the Red Storm's 13-19 record, Harkless made an impression.

    "For me, the most talented guy (after Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes) is probably Harkless," said a Western Conference general manager. "He's got size, he's got length, he rebounds. He played out of position all year, which for him will be an adjustment. He can catch and shoot, at least. He's got a lot of long term upside. He's still really, really young. He produced in a good league and he had to play out of position. He's got some long term potential."
    http://www.nba.com/news/features/dav...rds/index.html

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i think with the "level of competition" argument you have to look at whether or not they dominated. it's not Lillard or any other shitty conference players fault where they play, but when they did play, how did they fare? Lillard was pretty unfuckwitable (thats a word i just made up) in school, so he certainly can ball. if "level of competition" was such a important thing, then why were high school players taken so high? it's all based on talent, and i think Lillard has a ton of it.
    My biggest concern is that, him having the potential "superstar" moniker attached to his name means that, if he is the real deal, we won't be able to grab him with the 8th pick. Things might change, but I have not seen him lower than 6 in any mock thus far. Level of competition is why most of these players are rightly ignored - he just might be the exception. We look to be in agreement on this player but glad to see you are not getting the outright revolt I received on suggesting it! The good news is, I suspect that "fly in the ointment" DC has a very good grasp of what to look for in a draft prospect and will steer the crew to the best option - was pisses with him before and during the season but all gravy now! Do you think they should temporarily expand the scouting staff for this important draft? Keep up the good work and let us know if you unearth another potential draft superstar - could be anywhere in this deep crap shoot!!!

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    Raptors Republic Starter GameBreaker's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i think with the "level of competition" argument you have to look at whether or not they dominated. it's not Lillard or any other shitty conference players fault where they play, but when they did play, how did they fare? Lillard was pretty unfuckwitable (thats a word i just made up) in school, so he certainly can ball. if "level of competition" was such a important thing, then why were high school players taken so high? it's all based on talent, and i think Lillard has a ton of it.
    Nope. Been used a million times. Sorry. Lol...I don't wanna risk losing Jose, being left with Bayless as our newly injure-prone PG, with a rookie PG of unknown NBA readiness leading our team. We need vets. Too much battles for who can be the youngest. This is getting out of hand. We need wing players and another VET PG to run our team, if Jose's gone.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    keep in mind Lillard had the second best PER in college last year, so its not like was a volume scorer, either. dude was crazy efficient, which is what you want if you're rolling with a scoring PG.
    @jerboat

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    just gonna drop this in here. notice how he doesn't settle for jump shots, but is always attacking, yet at the same time reading the defense. that's actually a innate quality that the best players have. i just find the dude extremely intriguing.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    for the record, i like Marshall and think he'll have a fine career, i just stay away from him because he just isn't athletic. he'll be fine on offense and have some nice assists and his teammates will love him but dude is gonna get burned on defense. so, so burned.

    if there was a PG that had moves like jagger that was pass first i'm sure i'd like him though!
    @jerboat

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    Would be nice to see some passing in that highlight package.

    I would be okay with Lillard. Marshall is intriguing too. I think I would lean more towards Marshall. He has more size, elite passing and seems like a leader. I think part of what this team needs is an identity and Marshall can help with that. Also, for Jonas to be successful he will need a pick and roll master. Marshall is that guy. Still... I think Lillard will be a very good pro too.

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    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    Quote Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
    Would be nice to see some passing in that highlight package.

    I would be okay with Lillard. Marshall is intriguing too. I think I would lean more towards Marshall. He has more size, elite passing and seems like a leader. I think part of what this team needs is an identity and Marshall can help with that. Also, for Jonas to be successful he will need a pick and roll master. Marshall is that guy. Still... I think Lillard will be a very good pro too.
    I thought the same thing about the lack of passing in the highlight package on Lillard. So I thought I would check it out on my new website fling (swishscout):

    Passing: For a point guard running the show, Lillard isn’t that great of passer compared to his NBA counterparts. No one’s perfect, but doesn’t have the consistent accuracy or distributing ability you want from a point with his passes. He’s an unselfish player who’s willing to give it up, but doesn’t see the floor well and has average court vision. Doesn’t routinely hit his teammates where they need the ball, with a few being too misdirected to get off a quick shot or avoid the reach of the defense. Can be pressured into errors and committing turnovers in addition. Assists totals could be misleading due to some great 3-point shooting teammates on his squad who made his job very easy, he just had to swing the ball to them. That’s not to say he’s not a good “drive and kick” player, because he does that at a good level and it fit the team need. Okay passer into the paint for teammates, but is little used in that regard or distributing off the drive to cutting teammates outside the pick and roll. To his credit, he does throw an excellent outlet pass ahead to teammates out in the open floor. Really needs to develop his skills as a distributor before entrusting him to run a team full time. That’s not to say he can’t make some nice plays for teammates, because he can and will, but not on a regular basis one would like from an NBA point guard.


    I should mention that this site is not a fan of Lillard's game and has him getting drafted in the mid-late first round. Here is his wrap-up of Lillard:

    Long Story Short: Lillard’s a quick point guard and gamer who can flat out score by attacking the basket, spotting up or creating his own shot from the perimeter. Although he has upside at the position, Damian’s passing skills are mediocre and his shooting mechanics are suspect, making him a mid-late first rounder at best in 2012.

    Best Case Scenario: Ramon Sessions
    Worst Case Scenario: Norris Cole
    Last edited by The Coach; Mon Apr 30th, 2012 at 09:17 PM.
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