View Poll Results: How would you upgrade the roster this season?

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  • free agency after July 1st and the draft

    8 25.81%
  • trades prior to July 1st, the draft, and free agency using exceptions

    23 74.19%
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Thread: How would you hit the ground running?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    In this case about Ray, but could be about that type of acquisition in general. Given our needs, he fits in regardless of what other moves we make...and yes, he may not want to come here, but that's always a risk, but not a big risk if you're just counting on using exceptions. I think really the goal would be to have a list of players who fit regardless of choice #1 or #2. I admit it's hard to think of a list like that, but there are some names out there even if they are unlikely, or perhaps not the best fit (Jamison, Hill, Stevenson...).
    That is the point though - to make use of the exceptions the Raptors are going to have to add salary prior to July 1st.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is the point though - to make use of the exceptions the Raptors are going to have to add salary prior to July 1st.
    Yeah, but that's also the strangeness of your thread....If the Raps don't make a move before July 1st out of choice, then the team is just stupid. They have to at least try. What kind of management doesn't act when they have more flexibility as opposed to less? That being said, my point was that regardless, they will have money for such signings. And in fact, if we fail to make a splash before FA, I would rather sign 2-3 players like Allen, Stevenson, etc, than add one guy for 8-10 million who is not a true star. For instance, adding Batum, and only Batum, at 8-10 million a year for 4 years might be a disaster if we do it after July 1st...On the flip side, adding Batum for that before the date and filling up our space means we can add such role players as well. I think the worst case is likely to be the one where July 1st comes and we spend on one player.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I voted for option #2, as I see three scenarios that play to the Raptors advantage when going this route:

    1) add salary that another team wants to dump
    - An example of this would be adding the bad contract of a player like Okafor from New Orleans, while also gaining an additional lottery pick as a 'thank you', similar to how Cleveland got the Clippers' pick last year for taking on Baron Davis' contract. The Raps could trade Amir for Okafor, and could also include any/all of JJ, Forbes, 2nd round picks (#38 & #56) in the deal.

    2) trade down/out of the draft
    - If the Raps are stuck with the #8-11 pick in the draft and aren't confident enough to draft a player who will be on the board in that slot, they could get a jump on other teams in similar position, by offering up their pick (potentially along with other assets too) for a legit player who's under contract with another team, before other teams have the cap space to do so and start a bidding war.

    3) TPE is useless in scenario #1
    - Another reason to like scenario #2 is that once July 1st rolls around and the Raps fall under the salary cap, the TPE acquired in the Barbosa trade is effectively lost. The raps can only use it (up until March 2013) if they are at/above (and stay at/above) the salary cap - taking on salary prior to July 1st would keep the TPE in play throughout the offseason.

    The only downside to option #2 is that it effectively takes players like Batum, Mayo, Nash and Dragic out of the conversation, unless salary cap space is freed up by other means, or the Raps talk to team ahead of July 1st and work out a S&T ahead of time.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed May 2nd, 2012 at 10:43 AM.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Yeah, but that's also the strangeness of your thread....If the Raps don't make a move before July 1st out of choice, then the team is just stupid. They have to at least try. What kind of management doesn't act when they have more flexibility as opposed to less? That being said, my point was that regardless, they will have money for such signings. And in fact, if we fail to make a splash before FA, I would rather sign 2-3 players like Allen, Stevenson, etc, than add one guy for 8-10 million who is not a true star. For instance, adding Batum, and only Batum, at 8-10 million a year for 4 years might be a disaster if we do it after July 1st...On the flip side, adding Batum for that before the date and filling up our space means we can add such role players as well. I think the worst case is likely to be the one where July 1st comes and we spend on one player.

    That can't be done though. You can only add a free agent, like Batum, after July 1st.

    Simply put, this thread is about making the choice to use money below the soft salary cap on free agency after July 1st or a trade before July 1st.

    How the money below the salary cap is spent is the issue here. You can use it via trade or free agency - but not both.

  5. #25
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    @Matt52

    Daps for doing so much heavy lifting on this thread. What you said about cap space is true. I never said we would have more cap space. All I said was that after next year we will have a way better idea of what we have given the profile of several contracts and the 2 or more incoming rookies. Also, one full year of Casey coaching this team can't be underestimated. If Casey really is the best asset this team has, then it also doesn't hurt to see what he can do with these young players.

    And I still think some teams will get a rude awakening next year when it comes to the post-lockout salary situation.

    Is there a real chance of us signing Batum next year??? I mean he was the Blazers go-to perimeter guy at the end of this past season. They're not gonna let him go.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I foresee a lot of sign and trades to do the majority of upgrading
    I foresee ONE major signing
    and using the TPE, Mid Level Mini Mid Level and Bi Annual to fill out roster spots

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
    @Matt52

    Daps for doing so much heavy lifting on this thread. What you said about cap space is true. I never said we would have more cap space. All I said was that after next year we will have a way better idea of what we have given the profile of several contracts and the 2 or more incoming rookies. Also, one full year of Casey coaching this team can't be underestimated. If Casey really is the best asset this team has, then it also doesn't hurt to see what he can do with these young players.

    And I still think some teams will get a rude awakening next year when it comes to the post-lockout salary situation.

    Is there a real chance of us signing Batum next year??? I mean he was the Blazers go-to perimeter guy at the end of this past season. They're not gonna let him go.
    Sorry for misunderstanding on thinking we had more cap space.

    I agree with the idea of more evaluation for players currently under contract but i don't think staying status quo is going to be the best way to go. If the goal is to build a deep playoff team or championship team, much of the flexibility to add talent will be gone by July 1st, in my opinion. If the evaluation comes back negative, where do the Raptors go from there?

    I really like the idea of adding young veterans (25-28 year old... although some 23/24 year olds would also fit the bill). If they are a young veteran, most likely they are proven. They might not be superstars but at least they have value for future trades - such as getting a star player.

    I definitely agree with a couple of teams getting a rude awakening. However, the majority of the league are under the luxury tax anyways and some those teams that were well beyond it (like LAL and DAL) have already begun getting ready for the new reality.

    I agree with you on Batum. That is why I think (and am hoping) the Raptors take on some salary via trade in one way or another before July 1st. I don't think the Raptors are going to add a significant piece via free agency outside of an exception.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I foresee a lot of sign and trades to do the majority of upgrading
    I foresee ONE major signing
    and using the TPE, Mid Level Mini Mid Level and Bi Annual to fill out roster spots
    Teh Raptors are not going to have a major signing without cap space.

    The Raptors are not going to have exceptions with cap space.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I would personally go #2.. but some how I think Bryan might go #1. I think Bryan wants to hit a home run - similar to what he tried to do with Turk. He has been itching for a proper off season and he has money to play with. I think he's going to try and net a major free agent like Nash or Batum and its going to hurt their flexibility of getting future assets since I don't think they have a lot of decent trade assets (which included this draft pick).

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That can't be done though. You can only add a free agent, like Batum, after July 1st.

    Simply put, this thread is about making the choice to use money below the soft salary cap on free agency after July 1st or a trade before July 1st.

    How the money below the salary cap is spent is the issue here. You can use it via trade or free agency - but not both.
    Ok, using the same player for both examples was a mistake on my part, so lets say Luol Deng(just for argument's sake). My point is just at the end, like I said. The worst case to me, is spending a lot on one guy after July 1st. The ideal is filling up that space with one or two good-great players, and using exceptions. All I think of with the space we'd have after July 1st is it sets up nicely for BC to make another stupid Hedo type offer.
    And as CalgaryRapsFan says, and the reason I quoted you, is do you know what the rules are on sign and trades of upcoming restricted FAs? Can we discuss Batum with Portland to the extent of discussing figures, before July 1st? If we can, then we can attempt to acquire pretty much anybody except unrestricted FAs before July 1st, can we not?
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed May 2nd, 2012 at 01:48 PM.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    It's always the restricted free agents that confuse me the most in terms of creative ways to acquire them

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Ok, using the same player for both examples was a mistake on my part, so lets say Luol Deng(just for argument's sake). My point is just at the end, like I said. The worst case to me, is spending a lot on one guy after July 1st. The ideal is filling up that space with one or two good-great players, and using exceptions. All I think of with the space we'd have after July 1st is it sets up nicely for BC to make another stupid Hedo type offer.
    So now you are talking trade and option #2. There is a distinction between #1 and #2. I thought you originally said it was not an either or.


    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    And as CalgaryRapsFan says, and the reason I quoted you, is do you know what the rules are on sign and trades of upcoming restricted FAs? Can we discuss Batum with Portland to the extent of discussing figures, before July 1st? If we can, then we can acquire pretty much anybody except unrestricted FAs before July 1st, can we not?
    Teams could discuss a possibility but specific contract offers are not permitted to be made to players until July 1st. Making specific offers could create significant repercussions like Joe Smith in Minnesota. Also, POR and TOR can talk all they want but what if: a) Cleveland comes along and offers $3M more per year than Toronto is offering, and b) what if Batum doesn't want to play in Toronto. *Batum can be replaced with any restricted free agent, of course*

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    when i look into my crystal ball i see gray and uzoh being retained, a couple solid FA pickups to bolster the bench, a surprising trade involving bargs or demar + parts (players? second rounders? $$$?) that lands us a stud and a draft pick that contributes right away. i don't see bayless anywhere in the picture... its getting hazy now...

    that's all i got, folks.
    @jerboat

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    No reason to think in terms of only next season. Taking action before July 1st provides greater flexibility and the ability to collect talent without over paying. Having talent allows you to make deals in the future. Which provides you with flexibility. You can trade for picks, cap space, etc.

    Option 2 give BC the greatest capability for this year and the future.

  15. #35
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    I want O.J. Mayo! Pursue, pursue, pursue!

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    I'm definitely with Matt on this one hoping they take on the salary prior to the 1st of July. Being slightly over the cap with the exceptions is better flexibility IMO then 10 million in cap space and a depleted roster with numerous holes to fill.

    I'd be surprised if BC doesn't make a draft day deal this year of some sort.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Honestly, I'd save the Cap Space for the Free Agent market ... there are players there, even if we need to wait on an RFA.

    Nic Batum is valued by Portland, but how much will they pay to match? Are they anywhere near contending with big contracts tied up in Aldrigde, Batum and Wes Matthews? It's not bad, but that core won't compete in the West if it doesn't leave room for another star piece. Maybe we can offer enough to make them blink.

    O.J. Mayo is highly valued by the Grizz, but with huge deals bringing them near the cap for the next 4 years in only 4 bodies (Gay, Gasol, Randolph, Conley) ... can they even be competitive in offers for Mayo? A reasonable market value offer would already be too much for them to match.

    Steve Nash. Unlikely? Maybe ... But also impossible NOT to at least take a close look for many reasons, on the court AND off.

    Other reasons to wait until free agency?
    -Goran Dragic
    -Matt Barnes
    -Louis Williams
    -Jeff Green?
    -Jameer Nelson
    -Aaron Brooks
    -George Hill
    -Eric Gordon
    -Landry Fields
    -Grant Hill

    These all could help add to us hitting the ground running!

    If we stay put at #8, take a guard: Lillard, Marshall, or Rivers.
    If we move into the top 3: Davis (1st), MKG, Beal (2nd, 3rd).
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    I want O.J. Mayo! Pursue, pursue, pursue!
    Would love to see him in a Raptor uniform but not sure how it happens.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    Would love to see him in a Raptor uniform but not sure how it happens.
    How O.J. Mayo could come to the Raptors?

    We take some amount of our large cap space, to offer him ... Memphis, carrying several HUGE contracts, doesn't match the offer to their RFA.

    Done.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  20. #40
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    How O.J. Mayo could come to the Raptors?

    We take some amount of our large cap space, to offer him ... Memphis, carrying several HUGE contracts, doesn't match the offer to their RFA.

    Done.
    Can't say the same for Batum though. Sources say Portland will match everything; and offer him 10 million plus.

    I like Batum and all... but 10 million? No thanks, that's a bit too much. Rajon Rondo makes only around 10 mil and hes a top 5 PG in the league. I'm starting to think that people are overrating Batum.

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