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Thread: "Casey: Valanciunas' Worst Case Scenaro Is Noah" & "Koreen: Too much hype?"

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Two points:

    In defense of Casey's Noah comment, his point was that the worst case scenario for JV, in his prime, would be Noah. A lot of people will take it to mean Casey thinks JV will be Noah in his rookie year. This is patently stupid and ridiculous on its face but, of course, when JV doesn't put up Shaq-like numbers in year one, you'll have people throwing this quote around like morons.

    Still, as Koreen notes, the Raps have no one but themselves to blame for the outsized expectations. Same thing happened when they drafted Derozan and Colangelo was comparing him to Vince Carter and Air Canada 2 and all that nonsense. I realize they need to sell tickets and generate interest but enough is enough. Let's stop this nonsense at least until he plays a single minute....
    There is a definite balance between creating excitement for fans/instilling confidence in your players and creating unrealistic expectations for your fans/unreachable goals for your players.

    BC has definitely not mastered that balance.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    in his prime I see 14 - 15pts 9 - 12 boards 2 - 3 blocks

    sort of a Dikembe Olajuwon hybrid

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    1. Kemba is a nice player and will be good down the road. That bobcat team was historically bad with no veteran talent on it. Take it easy on Kemba.

    2. I really don't expect much out of big Val next year outside of pretty much always being in foul trouble and a lot of goaltending penalties. That said, can't wait to have him here.

    3. Just started following Koreen on twitter and dude is awesome. He's hilarious. The way he constantly goads Chisholm kills me.

  4. #24
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Makes me wonder where all the Ed O'Bannan... oops, I mean Kemba Walker fans are?!
    Right here. Kemba Walker had a really solid season. What's the problem with Walker? He showed nothing but promise. His shooting wasn't good but that was his flag heading in so no surprise.

  5. #25
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Joakim put up 6pts, 5rpg and a block as a rookie.
    Chandler put up 6pts, 5rpg and just over a block as a rookie.

    I'm not sure comparing Jonas to either of those guys is putting undue pressure on him.
    Matching their rookie campaigns should be easy.

    However, I bet if he "only" puts up 6 and 6, I imagine we'll get some people calling for his head.
    People aren't going to associate him with 6 and 6. They're going to hear Noah and then 10 and 10. Casey didn't say Noah's rookie season. He said Noah. I think most imaginations will gravitate to 10 and 10.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    1. Kemba is a nice player and will be good down the road. That bobcat team was historically bad with no veteran talent on it. Take it easy on Kemba.

    2. I really don't expect much out of big Val next year outside of pretty much always being in foul trouble and a lot of goaltending penalties. That said, can't wait to have him here.

    3. Just started following Koreen on twitter and dude is awesome. He's hilarious. The way he constantly goads Chisholm kills me.
    1. agree 100%

    2. i think his goals will be set at being able to stay on the floor and i hope he can achieve them but i expect him to be able to rebound well from the get go.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter Fanchie's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    in his prime I see 14 - 15pts 9 - 12 boards 2 - 3 blocks

    sort of a Dikembe Olajuwon hybrid
    With a 90% FT rate, the prime version of JV will be closer to 20pts.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I'm concerned about projecting that kind of offensive numbers JV can put up, he is raw offensively, and although having a great FT% means I'm optimistic that he'll be able to generate a mid range jay, saying he's going to be closer to 20 pts is a stretch, besides, I want his impact to be more on the defensive side of the ball, I won't complain about any offensive production, but my expectations are mostly defense based.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Thu May 3rd, 2012 at 06:34 AM.
    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee

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  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    If numbers are being thrown around I would love to see 10 points, 7 boards, 1.5 blocks and 50+% FG% (assuming he's playing 25+ minutes a game). Hefty goal to reach but the kid works so hard and is incredibly efficient so I think it's achievable as long as the minutes are there and he continues to improve.

  10. #30
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    I think we should really get a grip on our expectations for the Lithuanian. There are some serious misconceptions out there. I have lived in Europe for the past several years and have seen my share of Rytas games and Lietuva national games. These things are true, and must all be qualified with the word 'yet':

    Valanciunas is not a strong post defender. He routinely gets scorched by his check in one on one situations. His weak-side D is actually better thanks to his hustle, but even then is instincts are only decent.

    He is not an above average rebounder.

    He needs someone else to create offense for him in the pick and roll.

    He does not have a great vertical.

    He has a high foul rate in tougher matchups.

    He is also inconsistent. He'll put up big numbers one game and nearly vanish the next.

    Okay... all of these are negatives. But when I see people writing about how he'll be our defensive anchor and a rebounding machine, ... they just don't have the whole story.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
    I think we should really get a grip on our expectations for the Lithuanian. There are some serious misconceptions out there. I have lived in Europe for the past several years and have seen my share of Rytas games and Lietuva national games. These things are true, and must all be qualified with the word 'yet':

    Valanciunas is not a strong post defender. He routinely gets scorched by his check in one on one situations. His weak-side D is actually better thanks to his hustle, but even then is instincts are only decent.

    He is not an above average rebounder.

    He needs someone else to create offense for him in the pick and roll.

    He does not have a great vertical.

    He has a high foul rate in tougher matchups.

    He is also inconsistent. He'll put up big numbers one game and nearly vanish the next.

    Okay... all of these are negatives. But when I see people writing about how he'll be our defensive anchor and a rebounding machine, ... they just don't have the whole story.
    You're right. We should view him as future prospect not someone who will smash boards and crush bones from minute 1.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
    I think we should really get a grip on our expectations for the Lithuanian. There are some serious misconceptions out there. I have lived in Europe for the past several years and have seen my share of Rytas games and Lietuva national games. These things are true, and must all be qualified with the word 'yet':

    Valanciunas is not a strong post defender. He routinely gets scorched by his check in one on one situations. His weak-side D is actually better thanks to his hustle, but even then is instincts are only decent.

    He is not an above average rebounder.

    He needs someone else to create offense for him in the pick and roll.

    He does not have a great vertical.

    He has a high foul rate in tougher matchups.

    He is also inconsistent. He'll put up big numbers one game and nearly vanish the next.

    Okay... all of these are negatives. But when I see people writing about how he'll be our defensive anchor and a rebounding machine, ... they just don't have the whole story.
    I agree with a lot of your points. But certainly not with the part about the serious misconceptions. That's just way too generalizing in respect to the discussion about Valanciunas on this site.

  13. #33
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I agree with a lot of your points. But certainly not with the part about the serious misconceptions. That's just way too generalizing in respect to the discussion about Valanciunas on this site.
    True. I think many people on this site do have realistic expectations and understand European basketball.

  14. #34
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    Quote Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
    I think we should really get a grip on our expectations for the Lithuanian. There are some serious misconceptions out there. I have lived in Europe for the past several years and have seen my share of Rytas games and Lietuva national games. These things are true, and must all be qualified with the word 'yet':

    Valanciunas is not a strong post defender. He routinely gets scorched by his check in one on one situations. His weak-side D is actually better thanks to his hustle, but even then is instincts are only decent.

    He is not an above average rebounder.

    He needs someone else to create offense for him in the pick and roll.

    He does not have a great vertical.

    He has a high foul rate in tougher matchups.

    He is also inconsistent. He'll put up big numbers one game and nearly vanish the next.

    Okay... all of these are negatives. But when I see people writing about how he'll be our defensive anchor and a rebounding machine, ... they just don't have the whole story.
    What I understand is that JV is only 19, and still needs a lot of coaching like all young big men. Casey's record is very good at coaching defense, and I think JV will adapt quite quickly. He will certainly struggle against big low post scorers, but Casey will likely find a way to cover that.

    Besides his energy and aggressiveness, what I really like about JV is his touch. As Sabonis once said, JV has very good touch around the basket (great "wrists", according to Saboni). This is really underrated for big men, but players like Pau Gasol show how important it is to have good skill and touch around the basket. Add to that excellent foul-shooting, and I think he will end up being a reliable scoring option. After all, I think that the European ball and basket is the same size as the NBA, right?

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    Besides his energy and aggressiveness, what I really like about JV is his touch. As Sabonis once said, JV has very good touch around the basket (great "wrists", according to Saboni). This is really underrated for big men, but players like Pau Gasol show how important it is to have good skill and touch around the basket. Add to that excellent foul-shooting, and I think he will end up being a reliable scoring option. After all, I think that the European ball and basket is the same size as the NBA, right?
    True, but that doesn't jive with Casey's description of him: a guy who mans the middle, challenged a little bit in terms of scoring in the paint but as far as of pick-and-rolling to the basket, he has great hands to roll and finish.

    I dunno about you guys but as a Raptors fan alarm bells are going off in my head when someone is telling me that our future C for years to come is going to have trouble scoring in the paint. Especially when our future PF for years to come has the same problem. Sure hope we win the lottery so we can have a different PF of the future!

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I dunno about you guys but as a Raptors fan alarm bells are going off in my head when someone is telling me that our future C for years to come is going to have trouble scoring in the paint. Especially when our future PF for years to come has the same problem. Sure hope we win the lottery so we can have a different PF of the future!
    It's a reference to his back-to-the-basket game. He isn't a great or even good low post scorer at this point but all you have to do is look at his shooting percentages (FT%, FG%) to see he has good hands and, from what I have seen of him, he appears to have good footwork. With that as your base, the low post game can be developed.

    Also, I'm pretty sure you could describe Anthony Davis' offensive game in the exact same way. He has little to no low post game and no jumper.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    ...I'm pretty sure you could describe Anthony Davis' offensive game in the exact same way. He has little to no low post game and no jumper.

    True from the games I saw.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    I'm not worried about JV's post scoring in year one. He's gonna get his points from pick n rolls, offensive rebounds and from the free throw line. Expecting a back to the back post threat at 19 years of age isn't reasonable. How many quality players are even in the league with that style of game? Bogut, Jefferson and Pau would be the very good ones that come to mind with other players like D12 and Bynum getting better at it. As long as he's working his tail off I think he'll have a positive affect on the floor and he's got time to develop in those other areas.

  19. #39
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    Quote Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
    I think we should really get a grip on our expectations for the Lithuanian. There are some serious misconceptions out there. I have lived in Europe for the past several years and have seen my share of Rytas games and Lietuva national games. These things are true, and must all be qualified with the word 'yet':

    Valanciunas is not a strong post defender. He routinely gets scorched by his check in one on one situations. His weak-side D is actually better thanks to his hustle, but even then is instincts are only decent.

    He is not an above average rebounder.

    He needs someone else to create offense for him in the pick and roll.

    He does not have a great vertical.

    He has a high foul rate in tougher matchups.

    He is also inconsistent. He'll put up big numbers one game and nearly vanish the next.

    Okay... all of these are negatives. But when I see people writing about how he'll be our defensive anchor and a rebounding machine, ... they just don't have the whole story.
    I disagree with you on rebounding. At 19 years of age he lead the VTB league, lithuanian league and was in top 5 of eurocup. So at 19 years old he's out rebounding man who make on average 250,000-500,000 year. ALso he is in the top 5 for shot blocking in all those leagues too. He's out played bigman like Jeff Adrien who plays for khimsky and played two years in the nba. Your right that he is inconsistent and that for the most part he can't create his own offense. Offensively he can rebound and he can roll very well. ALso he's developed his jump hook and shoots a high percentage with the hook. I've watched about 20 games that JV's played and he's quite consistent when he doesn't get himself in foul trouble. Strength will certainly help him hold his position and be more consistent on the defensive end so not to get himself into foul trouble. Very exciting for the raps to get the best prospect in europe and Asia in the last few years.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    ...Very exciting for the raps to get the best prospect in europe and Asia in the last few years.
    +1000

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