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Thread: BC: "We will be in a unique position with $12 million in cap space before the draft"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Has anyone considered that when Colangelo says we're in a unique position with $12M in cap space before the draft, he's just stating it as fact and means nothing else by it? We had a whole bunch of ideas with our first big TPE and we did a whole lot of nothing with it.

    It's like me saying that I am in a unique position from where I am sitting because I have my legs crossed while sitting on my legs on my chair, and I have no socks on my feet and I'm only wearing one shoe. Also, I have a piece of gum stuck on my nose, which I've stretched out so that it's hanging off my nose and I'm swinging my head up and down trying to get the other end of the gum to stick to my forehead.

    It's a very unique position that I'm in. Everyone else better watch out!
    i think that bc is in a corner and needs to use the space. the team has to improve a lot this year and i think he will use all the means at his disposal to do it. he seems like a shot down in a blaze of glory kind of guy and i think he likes having a job.

  2. #122
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Has anyone considered that when Colangelo says we're in a unique position with $12M in cap space before the draft, he's just stating it as fact and means nothing else by it? We had a whole bunch of ideas with our first big TPE and we did a whole lot of nothing with it.

    It's like me saying that I am in a unique position from where I am sitting because I have my legs crossed while sitting on my legs on my chair, and I have no socks on my feet and I'm only wearing one shoe. Also, I have a piece of gum stuck on my nose, which I've stretched out so that it's hanging off my nose and I'm swinging my head up and down trying to get the other end of the gum to stick to my forehead.

    It's a very unique position that I'm in. Everyone else better watch out!
    This off-season offers his last big opportunity in terms of great flexibility. He has a bunch of young players who will be looking for contract extensions in the coming four years. That alone will kill any future chance of him having this sort of flexibility in Toronto again. If he passes on the cap space, contracts escalate, rookies get signed and the cap space vanishes. It's a lost opportunity to not use the cap space this year. Passing on the big TPE really wasn't a lost opportunity because he had the cap space on the horizon. Had he used the TPE he would have no cap space. He chose to not use the TPE and so he has cap space.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Oh c'mon man... I'm sure they would get at least 35 wins with that roster, and that's a minimum, IMO. I'll keep on saying we shouldn't destroy this core. Casey started to build something really solid, why rush it?

    Here's a point that I'm really convinced in: To get a guy like Granger, we would need to trade away at least 2 really good young players, let's say our pick and Ed Davis. Granger will be 30 years of age by next season, so we would need to really be in a big win NOW mode. That means getting to our ceiling by 2013. I don't think that's the plan BC and DC hold.

    By not doing such a trade and by trading for Emeka and Mo, you have 6 really good players with a lot of potential that are 25 or younger (DeMar, JJ, Ed, Marshall, Bayless, Valanciunas) surrounded by a big bunch of really good young veterans (Bargnani, Calderon, Emeka, Mo, Kleiza, Gray).

    Between both scenarios, I'd take the last one anyday of the week. Much safer and much smart, at least IMO, if we want to be competitive long term.
    Even if I agree that this team is capable of winning 35 games. What's the point? The roster still lacks elite talent to transform us into championship contenders. And we're not shitty enough to land a high lotto pick anymore.

    We'll forever be stuck in the 7-10 seed range...the absolute worst place for an NBA team to be.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    ...We'll forever be stuck in the 7-10 seed range...the absolute worst place for an NBA team to be.
    7th Pick Overall

    Richard Hamilton, Washington, 1999
    Jason Williams, Sacramento, 1998
    Damon Stoudamire, Toronto, 1995
    Kevin Johnson, Cleveland, 1987
    Chris Mullin, Golden State, 1985
    Alvin Robertson, San Antonio, 1984


    8th Pick Overall
    Andre Miller, Cleveland, 1999
    Brian Grant, Sacramento, 1994
    Ron Harper, Cleveland, 1986
    Tom Chambers, San Diego, 1981
    Averaged 18.1 ppg and 6.1 rpg in 16 NBA years.

    9th Pick Overall
    Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix, 2002
    Shawn Marion, Phoenix, 1999
    Dirk Nowitzki, Milwaukee, 1998
    Tracy McGrady, Toronto, 1997

    10th Pick Overall
    Jason Terry, Atlanta, 1999
    Paul Pierce, Boston, 1998
    Eddie Jones, L.A. Lakers, 1994
    Horace Grant, BULLS, 1987

    11th Pick Overall
    Bonzi Wells, Detroit, 1998
    Allan Houston, Detroit, 1993
    Terrell Brandon, Cleveland, 1991
    Reggie Miller, Indiana, 1987
    Kiki Vandeweghe, Portland, 1980

    13th Pick Overall
    Kobe Bryant, Charlotte, 1996
    Jalen Rose, Denver, 1994
    Karl Malone, Utah, 1985

    Now I don't necessarily disagree with yoyu, I'm just saying. And this list is about 8 years old.

  5. #125
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Some notables from the later half of the last decade:

    8th
    Rudy Gay, 2006

    9th
    Joakim Noah, 2007

    10th
    Andrew Bynum, 2005
    Brook Lopez, 2008
    Brandon Jennings, 2009

  6. #126
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    I think what nilanka was trying to say was 7-10 as in in or on the cusp of the playoffs and on the outside looking in at the second round. The pick would be in the 12 -20 range.

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    What would the Raptors have to give to get Rudy Gay? (knowing that Memphis is loaded with salaries moving forward and the expectation that luxury tax level is not where they want to be)

    He seems like an all around player & he's clutch too. It's like Memphis doesn't use him enough because they are that loaded all around. I can honestly see this guy averaging 25+ somewhere else & I'm hoping it's here in Toronto.

    His contract ($16+M) warrants such productivity & he can't and won't get that in Memphis.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    What would the Raptors have to give to get Rudy Gay? (knowing that Memphis is loaded with salaries moving forward and the expectation that luxury tax level is not where they want to be)

    He seems like an all around player & he's clutch too. It's like Memphis doesn't use him enough because they are that loaded all around. I can honestly see this guy averaging 25+ somewhere else & I'm hoping it's here in Toronto.

    His contract ($16+M) warrants such productivity & he can't and won't get that in Memphis.
    jj/demar, ed/amir, 20131st, 2 2012 2nd. id rather not give demar but i think memphis would do it for the cap differnce for ed and the picks and im hoping they prefer jj for being cheaper and defensive at the 3.

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Memphis lost. More incentive to re-consider their $70M line-up.

    RUDY GAY !
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    I think what nilanka was trying to say was 7-10 as in in or on the cusp of the playoffs and on the outside looking in at the second round. The pick would be in the 12 -20 range.
    That's how I interpreted it.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Even if I agree that this team is capable of winning 35 games. What's the point? The roster still lacks elite talent to transform us into championship contenders. And we're not shitty enough to land a high lotto pick anymore.

    We'll forever be stuck in the 7-10 seed range...the absolute worst place for an NBA team to be.
    I think you aren't considering the other ways of making transactions.

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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    memphis lost. More incentive to re-consider their $70m line-up.

    oj mayo !

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    it would be nice to keep it low key in the offseason and keep rebuilding. but knowing BC he might make some big moves, seems like the RR consensus is to go for Gay, Nash / Ilyasova?

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Question.

    Would the Raptors be able to facilitate a sign and trade if they are over the salary cap ?
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    Question.

    Would the Raptors be able to facilitate a sign and trade if they are over the salary cap ?
    who is over the cap? the raps?

    because if the numbers work after the signing it should be good to go

  16. #136
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    Question.

    Would the Raptors be able to facilitate a sign and trade if they are over the salary cap ?
    I thought I read something about luxury tax teams having more restrictions on sign and trade in the new CBA. Not sure.

    As to your question over the salary cap, yes, they would be able to facilitate but like with all sign and trades it must be with a player they have Bird Rights with.

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I thought I read something about luxury tax teams having more restrictions on sign and trade in the new CBA. Not sure.

    As to your question over the salary cap, yes, they would be able to facilitate but like with all sign and trades it must be with a player they have Bird Rights with.
    I read something about luxury tax teams are prohibited from facilitating a sign and trade if they are above a certain level starting year 3 of the new CBA.

    My question was posted to clarify a potential Steve Nash situation. To rephrase the question, I guess, the way in which I presented the question was unclear:

    (1) Assume the Raps make a trade on draft night that brings in a player with a significant contract & takes them over the salary cap going into July 1st.
    (2) My question is, would Phoenix be able to facilitate a sign and trade with Toronto knowing the Raps are over the salary cap? yes.
    (3) Now, what would Phoenix have to take back in order for this to work? This is where I'm really not understanding this whole sign and trade deal. (assuming the new Nash contract is more than the MLE; for the sake of argument - I will place a $10M number on the first year)
    - Would the Raptors have to subsequently get rid of (+/-) 125% of that $10M amount?.. meaning, the amnesty provision will be used on Jose, or trade back contracts worth around the same as Nash'? OR
    - The Raptors are able to take Nash' contract without having to give back the same value in return?.. say, a future draft pick or something

    I hope that's more precise, as a question.
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    I read something about luxury tax teams are prohibited from facilitating a sign and trade if they are above a certain level starting year 3 of the new CBA.

    My question was posted to clarify a potential Steve Nash situation. To rephrase the question, I guess, the way in which I presented the question was unclear:

    (1) Assume the Raps make a trade on draft night that brings in a player with a significant contract & takes them over the salary cap going into July 1st.
    (2) My question is, would Phoenix be able to facilitate a sign and trade with Toronto knowing the Raps are over the salary cap? yes.
    (3) Now, what would Phoenix have to take back in order for this to work? This is where I'm really not understanding this whole sign and trade deal. (assuming the new Nash contract is more than the MLE; for the sake of argument - I will place a $10M number on the first year)
    - Would the Raptors have to subsequently get rid of (+/-) 125% of that $10M amount?.. meaning, the amnesty provision will be used on Jose, or trade back contracts worth around the same as Nash'? OR
    - The Raptors are able to take Nash' contract without having to give back the same value in return?.. say, a future draft pick or something

    I hope that's more precise, as a question.

    pretty sure it is this one
    Would the Raptors have to subsequently get rid of (+/-) 125% of that $10M amount?.. meaning, the amnesty provision will be used on Jose, or trade back contracts worth around the same as Nash'?

  19. #139
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    I read something about luxury tax teams are prohibited from facilitating a sign and trade if they are above a certain level starting year 3 of the new CBA.

    My question was posted to clarify a potential Steve Nash situation. To rephrase the question, I guess, the way in which I presented the question was unclear:

    (1) Assume the Raps make a trade on draft night that brings in a player with a significant contract & takes them over the salary cap going into July 1st.
    (2) My question is, would Phoenix be able to facilitate a sign and trade with Toronto knowing the Raps are over the salary cap? yes.
    (3) Now, what would Phoenix have to take back in order for this to work? This is where I'm really not understanding this whole sign and trade deal. (assuming the new Nash contract is more than the MLE; for the sake of argument - I will place a $10M number on the first year)
    - Would the Raptors have to subsequently get rid of (+/-) 125% of that $10M amount?.. meaning, the amnesty provision will be used on Jose, or trade back contracts worth around the same as Nash'? OR
    - The Raptors are able to take Nash' contract without having to give back the same value in return?.. say, a future draft pick or something

    I hope that's more precise, as a question.
    Under the new CBA, teams that are under the luxury tax are not held to 125% + 100K. Only luxury tax teams are still held to that requirement.

    Teams under the tax can have trades where contracts exchanged are 150% or a difference of $5M - whichever is smaller.

    So the value of contracts going to Phoenix in any sign and trade that brings Nash back $10M would have to be around $6.7M.

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    If Phoenix wanted something for Nash. They would have traded him.

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