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Thread: BC: "We will be in a unique position with $12 million in cap space before the draft"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    4 years ago, did OKC had any all NBA player? Any all defensive? Did they trade for a superstar? 4 years later, where are they? Yeah, I know, DeMar ain't no Durant, but I think we got a pretty good core right now. Why rush things? We could end up regret it. Let's see what this team can do at the beginning of next year before going after a ''superstar''.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i would bring in okafor if we got a pick back because 14 a year is pretty steep and we are doing the hornets a favour, but new orleans isn't going to be sending one out.

    but with batum making himself invaluable to the blazers my next targets are mayo or gay. i would prefer mayo. heisley is super cheap and if they lose he wont want to spend the money to keep them there.

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    4 years ago, did OKC had any all NBA player? Any all defensive? Did they trade for a superstar? 4 years later, where are they? Yeah, I know, DeMar ain't no Durant, but I think we got a pretty good core right now. Why rush things? We could end up regret it. Let's see what this team can do at the beginning of next year before going after a ''superstar''.
    Yes, DeMar ain't no Durant, and we were waiting long enough... Now it's time to change something, and the best time to do it is summer, because DC need to have completed team at the start of training camp.
    (Sorry for poor English )

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote Thomas A. wrote: View Post
    Uhh, now I feel gross for calling DeRozan "Deroz". Douchiness is too great a price for brevity.
    If it makes you feel any better I felt douchy reading it.

    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    If - and that's a huge if Atlanta agrees to that deal, Colangelo will have to sign Smith long term - and that's a huge if as well. He's an expiring next season. It would look really bad to have Smith just for one season.
    I agree it would look bad, but I don't see how Smith passes up on Toronto. IF we get a hold of him I'm sure Coangelo will throw money at him. I do think that MLSE is willing to spend money to get us into the playoffs/out of the first round. It may impact our ability to resign demar or Ed after their rookie deals, but based on their performance I'm not convinced that'll be an issue.

    Toronto does a good job of supporting it's players and the team when we have a decent product, Plus, I think we'll give smith the kid of props he's looking for.

    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    4 years ago, did OKC had any all NBA player? Any all defensive? Did they trade for a superstar? 4 years later, where are they? Yeah, I know, DeMar ain't no Durant, but I think we got a pretty good core right now. Why rush things? We could end up regret it. Let's see what this team can do at the beginning of next year before going after a ''superstar''.
    Dude, not only are none of our young players a Durant, they aren't even a westbrooke, or a harden. We need talent. I think that the raps have done a good job of acquiring good value contracts and young pieces, but that also means that you've got things that would be interesting to other teams.

    one of at least Bargs/Ed/Amir is available
    Calderon is on an expiring deal and not really part of long term plans (although resigning him for less and have him come in off the bench wouldn't be a bad decision)

    With JV coming in we don't necessarily need another rookie, let alone 3

    We are in good financial shape and can afford to look at acquiring more talent, yes we'll have to give some things up, and I don't want to blow up the roster, but there are a few combinations of outgoing talent that won't impact us in the grand scheme of things.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  5. #85
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Trade Amir for Okafor
    Trade Forbes and both 2nd round pick for Mo Williams
    Draft Kendall Marshall

    Valanciunas/Okafor/Gray/Alabi
    Bargnani/Davis/Magloire
    DeRozan/Johnson/Kleiza
    Bayless/Williams/Anderson
    Calderon/Marshall
    This team would be lucky to win 30 games next year.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    4 years ago, did OKC had any all NBA player? Any all defensive? Did they trade for a superstar? 4 years later, where are they? Yeah, I know, DeMar ain't no Durant, but I think we got a pretty good core right now. Why rush things? We could end up regret it. Let's see what this team can do at the beginning of next year before going after a ''superstar''.
    I love this argument because it credits OKC management with having some sort of genius when the reality is they got ridiculously lucky. You don't think Portland picked potential superstars over the past 10 years? Sacramento? Washington?
    You never know if someone will end up like Durant or like Beasley. There is so much luck involved it's not even funny.

    The bottom line is, the teams that have won championships, with exception of the Spurs, have ASSEMBLED a core group of players because there is less luck involved in that. You put Pierce, Garnet and Ray Allen together, you can be pretty sure you will have a good team.

    The Raptors need to go after players that will change the course of the franchise, not JJ Reddick. I agree that this time may not be now, but at some point we will have to make a move and get a proven player who take us to the next level.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    This team would be lucky to win 30 games next year.
    They won 23 this year on a 66 games season, without Bargs for the most part of the year and with a lot of other significant players injured all season long. On a 82 games season, this is 29 wins. So you think that by switching Amir for JV and Okafor, having Mo Williams instead of Gary Forbes and Kendall Marshall instead of Anthony Carter this team would be lucky to win 30 games next year?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I'm still trying to wrap my head around Casey's comment about the need for shooters veteran or otherwise. Don't we need a post presence more so than a shooter? What good are guys like Reddick and Dorrell Wright if they can't get open shots? They don't create shots for themselves or others. They are there to draw the defense to the perimeter and to make the defense pay when they double players in the post. Is this another classic Casey smoke screen? That wacky bastard

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    They won 23 this year on a 66 games season, without Bargs for the most part of the year and with a lot of other significant players injured all season long. On a 82 games season, this is 29 wins. So you think that by switching Amir for JV and Okafor, having Mo Williams instead of Gary Forbes and Kendall Marshall instead of Anthony Carter this team would be lucky to win 30 games next year?
    dont need okafor or mo to win 30 games.. theres better ways to spend money... id much rather roll with what we got then waste money on those guys

  10. #90
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I'm still trying to wrap my head around Casey's comment about the need for shooters veteran or otherwise. Don't we need a post presence more so than a shooter? What good are guys like Reddick and Dorrell Wright if they can't get open shots? They don't create shots for themselves or others. They are there to draw the defense to the perimeter and to make the defense pay when they double players in the post. Is this another classic Casey smoke screen? That wacky bastard
    its pretty obvious that we lacked any consistant outside scoring which in turn made defences clog the lanes & made it harder for the bigs to score down low & it also makes it harder for the slashers like DD to get to the rim in a half court offence.. the post presence we need is on defence..
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Fri May 4th, 2012 at 11:19 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    They won 23 this year on a 66 games season, without Bargs for the most part of the year and with a lot of other significant players injured all season long. On a 82 games season, this is 29 wins. So you think that by switching Amir for JV and Okafor, having Mo Williams instead of Gary Forbes and Kendall Marshall instead of Anthony Carter this team would be lucky to win 30 games next year?
    Ok fine, 32 wins
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #92
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    its pretty obvious that we lacked any consistant outside scoring which in turn made defences clog the lanes & made it harder for the bigs to score down low & it also makes it harder for the slashers like DD to get to the rim in a half court offence.. the post presence we need is on defence..
    It depends on whether you adhere to the "inside out" or "outside in" philosophy to offense.

    Do your post players draw double-teams, thus freeing up your 3pt shooters? Or are your shooters such threats that defences wouldn't dare doubling in the post, thus leaving your bigs to work 1-on-1?

    Ideally, you'd want threats on the inside AND outside. But we neither have a dead-eye shooter, or a post-threat who demands a double team.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    its pretty obvious that we lacked any consistant outside scoring which in turn made defences clog the lanes & made it harder for the bigs to score down low & it also makes it harder for the slashers like DD to get to the rim in a half court offence.. the post presence we need is on defence..
    Yeah, the outside shooting was poor, but traditionally both offense and defences are built from the inside out. Defences clogged the lane to make us into a jump shooting team which we aren't good at, but if you have outside shooters and none of them can break down a defender and take it inside then what good is it 'cause defenders will just play man to man and cancel out the perimeter shooters. We need a post presence on the offensive end to keep defenders in the paint thus opening up shots for the perimeter players.

    I disagree that the post presence we need is on defence (though I wouldn't say no to signing D. Howard). The Raptors were amongst one of the best teams at keeping teams from scoring in the paint. They did a great job of defending and rebounding by committee this past season.

    I think it's a case of we just have a lot of holes to fill, but to me you build a team inside out not the other way around.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    its pretty obvious that we lacked any consistant outside scoring which in turn made defences clog the lanes & made it harder for the bigs to score down low & it also makes it harder for the slashers like DD to get to the rim in a half court offence.. the post presence we need is on defence..
    Mo??? Emeka???

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Yeah, the outside shooting was poor, but traditionally both offense and defences are built from the inside out. Defences clogged the lane to make us into a jump shooting team which we aren't good at, but if you have outside shooters and none of them can break down a defender and take it inside then what good is it 'cause defenders will just play man to man and cancel out the perimeter shooters. We need a post presence on the offensive end to keep defenders in the paint thus opening up shots for the perimeter players.

    I disagree that the post presence we need is on defence (though I wouldn't say no to signing D. Howard). The Raptors were amongst one of the best teams at keeping teams from scoring in the paint. They did a great job of defending and rebounding by committee this past season.

    I think it's a case of we just have a lot of holes to fill, but to me you build a team inside out not the other way around.
    with healthy bargs, Jonas,Amir,Ed i think we got more then enough options in the post on offence.. they need to have some room to operate though.. with a lights out shooter or 2 on the floor with these guys they will do just fine.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Mo??? Emeka???
    NO!
    there ok players but they cost way more then there worth..

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    I love this argument because it credits OKC management with having some sort of genius when the reality is they got ridiculously lucky. You don't think Portland picked potential superstars over the past 10 years? Sacramento? Washington?
    You never know if someone will end up like Durant or like Beasley. There is so much luck involved it's not even funny.
    l.
    There is some truth to that. You think OKC considers themselves lucky for not winning the 'Oden' draft??

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    Quote Beaverboi wrote: View Post
    There is some truth to that. You think OKC considers themselves lucky for not winning the 'Oden' draft??
    Not just the fact that they didn't win so that they had an "easier" decision than Portland, but it is a total package. Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka are not only good, they have all exceeded expectations. They fell into a perfect situation where they could each play their game without stepping on their teammates, and on top of all of that, they get along with each other off the court.

    If you couple this with the fact that Nick Collison was also drafted by them, you get a list of about 20 things that need to go right which you cannot control to get the result of an OKC.

    It is FAR more likely that a team which floats around the bottom of the league for years and collects draft picks will end up like Sacramento. They have a bunch of talented players, who don't know their role, and while they have the personnel to beat good teams, they have no identity and are thus inconsistent individually.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    They won 23 this year on a 66 games season, without Bargs for the most part of the year and with a lot of other significant players injured all season long. On a 82 games season, this is 29 wins. So you think that by switching Amir for JV and Okafor, having Mo Williams instead of Gary Forbes and Kendall Marshall instead of Anthony Carter this team would be lucky to win 30 games next year?
    +100

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    I love this argument because it credits OKC management with having some sort of genius when the reality is they got ridiculously lucky. You don't think Portland picked potential superstars over the past 10 years? Sacramento? Washington?
    You never know if someone will end up like Durant or like Beasley. There is so much luck involved it's not even funny.

    The bottom line is, the teams that have won championships, with exception of the Spurs, have ASSEMBLED a core group of players because there is less luck involved in that. You put Pierce, Garnet and Ray Allen together, you can be pretty sure you will have a good team.

    The Raptors need to go after players that will change the course of the franchise, not JJ Reddick. I agree that this time may not be now, but at some point we will have to make a move and get a proven player who take us to the next level.
    +1. Great points. And also remember that OKC moved up from 5th pick to 2nd, so that was like a perfect storm for them to get Durant as a no-brainer. The next best player in the first round is probably Al Horford (#3). Nice player, but nowhere near the franchise cornerstore that Durant is. Swap Durant with Horford and OKC is probably the Atlanta Hawks, at best.

    BTW - even the Spurs got "lucky" to draft Tim Duncan, because David Robinson got injured the preceding year and their second best scorer, Sean Elliot, was also out for 1/2 the season. They were coming off a 58 win season and won only 16 that year before drafting Duncan.

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