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Thread: When could we 'contend' for Mr. Nash?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Default When could we 'contend' for Mr. Nash?

    One major hiccup in 'Nash to Toronto' is the stated belief (by others, not Nash himself) that he is looking for a ring - or at least the chance to compete for one.

    Looking into the landscape of the Eastern conference and beyond, how long before we could be in that group?

    First, the roster hypotheticals of the 2012/13 Toronto Raptors:
    -Obviously, adding Nash.
    -Converting Jose into a legitimate starting SF (either through trade, or amnesty and FA signing).

    That leaves us with some reasonable positions to fill; backup guards through the draft and FA.
    I don't want this to become a roster speculation thread; Let's say Bayless and Gray return, and we draft Lamb.

    Nash/Bayless/Uzoh
    Demar/Lamb/Forbes
    Batum*/JJ/Kleiza (*or substitute someone similar)
    Bargnani/Ed/Amir
    Jonas/Gray/Magloire

    Projecting that roster against the East - I only see 2 teams that are in 'another league'.
    Miami and Chicago.

    Looking to the West, who is in 'another league'? The Thunder, Spurs (for now), and maybe L.A.

    Playoffs next year? Seems extremely probable.
    That unit playing together for 3 years? ...

    I think being a playoff team and challenging against the top 2 seeds in the conference for a shot at the big dance is exactly the type of situation that could appeal to Nash ... I guess the only question is: how much of a homer-lunatic am I for the optimism? You decide.
    Last edited by Papa Burgundy; Mon May 14th, 2012 at 08:25 AM.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    How did they end up with Nash and Batum again? It's an important question as I feel this hypothetical scenario is highly unlikely, if not impossible.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Ya, I read a little that hinted signing nash. But, Batum was nowhere to be found.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Is Nash that much of an upgrade over Calderon that it's worth 3 years and $30 mil? He's a rare player but shouldn't we save the big contracts for when we're ready to contend?

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Colangelo needs job security. Nash = job security.

    They've already prepped everyone for such a play. Colangelo and Casey have said they have enough young players, they need vets. Nash is a Canadian sports hero. No one will question the move. The Raptors would win a lot more next year and it would be attributed to him and the other upgrades. MLSE is then pretty much forced to give Colangelo his extension. What are they gonna axe him for at that point? The signing of Steve Nash or the good record and a trip back to the playoffs?

    This self preservation cloaked by the tugging the fans' emotional strings.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    The other way to look at it is that Nash makes the people he plays with better. Don't have an all-star, get Nash and maybe someone will look like one.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Colangelo needs job security. Nash = job security.

    They've already prepped everyone for such a play. Colangelo and Casey have said they have enough young players, they need vets. Nash is a Canadian sports hero. No one will question the move. The Raptors would win a lot more next year and it would be attributed to him and the other upgrades. MLSE is then pretty much forced to give Colangelo his extension. What are they gonna axe him for at that point? The signing of Steve Nash or the good record and a trip back to the playoffs?

    This self preservation cloaked by the tugging the fans' emotional strings.
    Why is Nash important for job security. More importantly, how do you define 'security' in the NBA. Is it results, performance, ticket sales, marketing exposure....

    If Colangelo wanted job security, he would have drafted kemba or knight during last years draft instead of jonas. If he wanted security, he would've gone for flashy moves instead of this slow painful rebuild. He clearly wants to rebuild properly this time and not worry so much on the now.

    Nash is old. He showed reminiscence of his older glory days, but we need to move on and if the Suns are going to given him 20M, for 2 years, id stay away. Hell, guys like Jeremy Lin would be much better for 'security' with the increase publicity and the cheaper price tag.

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    good question.

    Id rather have guys like batum(FA), Jeff Green(FA), Iggy (Trade) or Granger (trade) for that same amount of money.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote DaveKim wrote: View Post
    good question.

    Id rather have guys like batum(FA), Jeff Green(FA), Iggy (Trade) or Granger (trade) for that same amount of money.
    The big difference between those guys and Nash is Nash makes those around him better. I think that is very important.

    Also Iggy makes $3M more than Nash would at $10M and Granger about the same.

    I could live with Batum at $10M but it would be a huge gamble based on continued development and consistency.

    Jeff Green at $10M is scary, in my opinion.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote DaveKim wrote: View Post
    Why is Nash important for job security. More importantly, how do you define 'security' in the NBA. Is it results, performance, ticket sales, marketing exposure....
    Lack of job security:
    Colangelo is in the final year of his contract and in the hot seat. Had the teachers not pulled out his future in Toronto was in serious question.

    Job security:
    The three year extension in guaranteed money he's probably in line for if the team shows success in this final year of his contract after six years of mediocrity under his guidance.

    Quote DaveKim wrote: View Post
    If Colangelo wanted job security, he would have drafted kemba or knight during last years draft instead of jonas. If he wanted security, he would've gone for flashy moves instead of this slow painful rebuild. He clearly wants to rebuild properly this time and not worry so much on the now.
    I disagree. It was very clear the JV was on the way this coming season. It was very clear that MLSE wanted him to do a proper rebuild and they did not want him to do a quick fix. He got the two year extension with the promise to do a proper rebuild. Unfortunately for him he's got to do that and show progression. Year one was the dress rehearsal. Year two needs to have most of the major people in place so that he has tangible productivity to market himself on when he goes before the board.

    Quote DaveKim wrote: View Post
    Nash is old. He showed reminiscence of his older glory days, but we need to move on and if the Suns are going to given him 20M, for 2 years, id stay away. Hell, guys like Jeremy Lin would be much better for 'security' with the increase publicity and the cheaper price tag.
    No they don't offer more security. Nash is a certainty, although be it only for a short time. Lin is a wild card. If he were to give Lin a big deal and Lin flops in year one, Colangelo may get bounced. It will be very easy to bounce Colangelo after this coming season and there are viable available options to replace him. The Raptors don't need Colangelo but it's his duty this season prove he's the best option available. To prove that he's the option they should want in that role.

    For the record, I agree with some of what you said. Nash is old and he's not the best long term option but we're not talking ideals, we're talking reality. The reality of it all is Colangelo needs to insure his own survival and signing Steve Nash is the best way to accomplish that without question.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Is Nash that much of an upgrade over Calderon that it's worth 3 years and $30 mil? He's a rare player but shouldn't we save the big contracts for when we're ready to contend?
    calderon is great in a half court offence, but doesnt offer much in the open court,fast break style our team is suited for. BC said he wanted a PG who can push the tempo up a notch & nash is at his best when playing that style..& is a much better shooter then jose which would spread the floor more in a half court situation.. so yes i would say thats an upgrade in many ways & nash wont get anymore then what jose's making now anyways so its a no brainer..even more so if they amnisty or trade jose.. theyd still have all the cap space they have now to persue other high end talent. BC's also said his goal next season is playoffs, so id assume he thinks well be ready to contend for something.
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Mon May 14th, 2012 at 11:04 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    In the Nash/Calderon comparisons, one factor that's often overlooked is Nash's ability to break down defenses in ISO situations. Calderon has no such ability whatsoever.

    Nash can single handedly win you a game by giving him the ball at the top of the circle, and asking him to create a shot in the dying seconds of a close game. That option doesn't exist with Calderon.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    How did they end up with Nash and Batum again? It's an important question as I feel this hypothetical scenario is highly unlikely, if not impossible.
    Nash is cap room ... then it mentions amnesty for Jose - which is another $10M = Batum.
    Sorry if it wasn't clear ... but it was
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Ya, I read a little that hinted signing nash. But, Batum was nowhere to be found.
    The asterisk* states signing Batum or a similar player - in the young star mould that the $10M amnesty budget would afford.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote DaveKim wrote: View Post
    good question.

    Id rather have guys like batum(FA), Jeff Green(FA), Iggy (Trade) or Granger (trade) for that same amount of money.
    Next year Granger makes over $13M, and Iggy makes almost $15M - but I would complain about Granger's arrival one bit.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Nash is cap room ... then it mentions amnesty for Jose - which is another $10M = Batum.
    Sorry if it wasn't clear ... but it was
    I think the Blazer match that. It's going to be tough to pry Batum away from the Blazers. They envision him and Aldridge their franchise guys going forward from what I read.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    calderon is great in a half court offence, but doesnt offer much in the open court,fast break style our team is suited for. BC said he wanted a PG who can push the tempo up a notch & nash is at his best when playing that style..& is a much better shooter then jose which would spread the floor more in a half court situation.. so yes i would say thats an upgrade in many ways & nash wont get anymore then what jose's making now anyways so its a no brainer..even more so if they amnisty or trade jose.. theyd still have all the cap space they have now to persue other high end talent. BC's also said his goal next season is playoffs, so id assume he thinks well be ready to contend for something.
    That's a really good point about how good Nash is in the open court as opposed to Calderon and more importantly how the Raptors are currently built to be an open court team and not a half court team. I'd be excited if they were able to sign Nash and it would bring instant gratification for the last few years of being a losing team. They would have to sign some shooters though as Casey had mentioned.

    I'm a bit concerned about the long term impact on the team of signing an aging player, as there is no reason to be hitting for the fences at this early stage of the teams rebuild and BC's need for self preservation should be a non-factor. However, it is a reality that BC is looking for an extension and if they can make a short term deal that falls in line with when the team is ready to contend I would be supportive. Just seems like signing a star makes more sense when we are ready to contend and not right now...

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think the Blazer match that. It's going to be tough to pry Batum away from the Blazers. They envision him and Aldridge their franchise guys going forward from what I read.
    Agreed 100% ... I could have used the name of any skilled SF with a rough value of $10M (not a superstar, but legit starter - that i'm hopeful that money could bring in through free agency, or a Jose trade) ... The idea being, someone at a higher level than JJ or Kleiza also being added to the unit - along with Nash and Jonas.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If the Raptors land Nash via free agency it might be most likely that the draft pick either starts at the 2 or 3 and DeRozan fills the other slot. Or the Raptors land a veteran wing with Jose and that guy starts with the rookie coming off the bench early on.

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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post


    I don't want this to become a roster speculation thread; Let's say Bayless and Gray return, and we draft Lamb.

    Nash/Bayless/Uzoh
    Allen/Gordon/Mayo/Fields/Demar/Forbes
    PJ3/JJ/Kleiza (*or substitute someone similar)
    Bargnani/Ed/Amir
    Jonas/Gray/Magloire
    PJ3 with good direction (Casey) will be just fine, and there is alot more talent in FA SG then there is at SF...

    We already have a 1 dimensional shooting guard in Demar, why would we draft another?

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