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Thread: Crazy Nash-induced 4-team trade to land Gay

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Default Crazy Nash-induced 4-team trade to land Gay

    Ok, so this trade is based on a few assumptions, which I need to layout up front:
    1. Nash intends to sign with Toronto for the next 2-3 seasons
    2. Memphis needs/wants to unload either Gay or Mayo, for salary reasons
    3. New Orleans is actually quite desperate to unload Okafor's contract
    4. Utah's rumored interest in Calderon (from trade deadline) is legit

    ESPN Trade Machine link: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ujblon

    TO NEW ORLEANS
    - Linas Kleiza & Gary Forbes (rotation players, mostly to match salary)
    - 2 x 2012 2nd round picks (#38 & #56 from Toronto)
    - 1 x 2013 2nd round pick (from Toronto)
    --> save approx $7.5M in 2012/13, $10M in 2013/14 = $17.5M total savings
    * if New Orleans doesn't feel they are getting enough return for Okafor & #10 pick, Toronto could 'buy' a late 1st round pick to send to NO (either instead of or in addition to the 2nd round picks)

    TO UTAH
    - Jose Calderon

    TO MEMPHIS
    - DeMar DeRozan (can replace Gay as starting SF, allow Mayo to re-sign)
    - Amir Johnson & James Johnson (solid backups, somewhat to match salary)
    - 1 x 2012 1st round pick (#16 from Utah, who may well still have a lottery pick, if Golden State falls to #8 or lower)
    - 1 x 2013 1st round pick (from Toronto)
    --> good straight-up replacement for Gay, plus two solid rotation players and 2 1st round picks seems like a good return for Gay
    --> save approx $4.3M in 2012/13, $11.4M in 2013/14, $12.3M in 2014/15 = $28M total savings

    TO TORONTO
    - Rudy Gay (starting SF)
    - Emeka Okafor (backup C to mentor Valanciunas)
    - 1 x 2012 1st round pick (#10 from New Orleans)
    - $9.8M TPE (from Utah for Calderon, using their Okur TPE)
    --> will have 2 lottery picks (their own and NO's 2nd pick), to likely add a wing & PG
    --> trades only add $1.2M salary for 2012/13 ($21.3M in 2013/14 & $12.3M in 2014/15)
    --> will have approx. $10M in cap space (before signing Nash), a $9.8M TPE, and all exceptions (MLE & Vet)


    TORONTO LINEUP
    C: Valanciunas, Okafor
    PF: Bargnani, Davis
    SF: Gay, ???
    SG: ???, ???
    PG: Nash, Marshall

    --> own lottery pick will be used on a wing (Beal would be ideal, to slot in as starting SG, but unlikely)
    --> NO's 2nd lottery pick will be used on Marshall (Nash is his ideal mentor)
    --> MLE can be used to fill one hole at wing (ie: somebody like Courtney Lee or even Ray Allen)
    --> TPE could be used to fill the other hole at wing
    --> addresses both the need for veterans and for shooters, maintains defensive culture change and acquires an additional lottery pick



    Crazy trade, I know, but seems to be fair return to all four teams... if assumptions are legit. Thoughts???
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue May 8th, 2012 at 02:07 PM.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    When you said 'fair for all teams', I laughed and I laughed and I laughed...

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    When you said 'fair for all teams', I laughed and I laughed and I laughed...
    I did say it was based on a few assumptions... which team didn't you think was getting a fair return?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Ok, so this trade is based on a few assumptions, which I need to layout up front:
    1. Nash intends to sign with Toronto for the next 2-3 seasons
    2. Memphis needs/wants to unload either Gay or Mayo, for salary reasons
    3. New Orleans is actually quite desperate to unload Okafor's contract
    4. Utah's rumored interest in Calderon (from trade deadline) is legit

    ESPN Trade Machine link: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ujblon

    TO NEW ORLEANS
    - Linas Kleiza & Gary Forbes (rotation players, mostly to match salary)
    - 2 x 2012 2nd round picks (#38 & #56 from Toronto)
    - 1 x 2013 2nd round pick (from Toronto)
    --> save approx $7.5M in 2012/13, $10M in 2013/14 = $17.5M total savings
    * if New Orleans doesn't feel they are getting enough return for Okafor & #10 pick, Toronto could 'buy' a late 1st round pick to send to NO (either instead of or in addition to the 2nd round picks)

    TO UTAH
    - Jose Calderon

    TO MEMPHIS
    - DeMar DeRozan (can replace Gay as starting SF, allow Mayo to re-sign)
    - Amir Johnson & James Johnson (solid backups, somewhat to match salary)
    - 1 x 2012 1st round pick (#16 from Utah, who may well still have a lottery pick, if Golden State falls to #8 or lower)
    - 1 x 2013 1st round pick (from Toronto)
    --> good straight-up replacement for Gay, plus two solid rotation players and 2 1st round picks seems like a good return for Gay
    --> save approx $4.3M in 2012/13, $11.4M in 2013/14, $12.3M in 2014/15 = $28M total savings

    TO TORONTO
    - Rudy Gay (starting SF)
    - Emeka Okafor (backup C to mentor Valanciunas)
    - 1 x 2012 1st round pick (#10 from New Orleans)
    - $9.8M TPE (from Utah for Calderon, using their Okur TPE)
    --> will have 2 lottery picks (their own and NO's 2nd pick), to likely add a wing & PG
    --> trades only add $1.2M salary for 2012/13 ($21.3M in 2013/14 & $12.3M in 2014/15)
    --> will have approx. $10M in cap space (before signing Nash), a $9.8M TPE, and all exceptions (MLE & Vet)


    TORONTO LINEUP
    C: Valanciunas, Okafor
    PF: Bargnani, Davis
    SF: Gay, ???
    SG: ???, ???
    PG: Nash, Marshall

    --> own lottery pick will be used on a wing (Beal would be ideal, to slot in as starting SG, but unlikely)
    --> NO's 2nd lottery pick will be used on Marshall (Nash is his ideal mentor)
    --> MLE can be used to fill one hole at wing (ie: somebody like Courtney Lee or even Ray Allen)
    --> TPE could be used to fill the other hole at wing
    --> addresses both the need for veterans and for shooters, maintains defensive culture change and acquires an additional lottery pick



    Crazy trade, I know, but seems to be fair return to all four teams... if assumptions are legit. Thoughts???
    I love crazy trades. As for this one, Utah does not have their own pick. It is going to Minnesota as it was lottery protected from the Jefferson trade in the summer of 2010. Another way to do things might be this - but it would involve a sign and trade with Phoenix to get Nash-to-Toronto done:

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=89lwa5h

    Toronto: Gay, Okafor
    Memphis: Ariza, Davis, Raptors 1st round pick
    New Orleans: Devin Harris, Amir Johnson, James Johnson
    Utah: Calderon

    Trade should work on trade machine but they do not recognize Raptors current available cap space.

    Rationale:

    Toronto - pretty obvious, legit scoring threat (Gay) and capable starter (Okafor) short term and possible trade chip long term.

    Memphis - saves a lot of money over the next 3 years on Gay (nearly $30M). They can re-sign Mayo with enough space under luxury tax to round out roster. This trade would fit most trades for a big contract/talent: rotational player, prospect, lotto pick, and financial flexibility.

    New Orleans - save money (nearly $15M). Gain financial flexibility for next summer. Reunite Wake Forest alum in JJ and Aminu (jk).

    Utah - keep their TPE and upgrade Harris.

    Centre piece of any Nash deal would centre around sign-and-trade Bayless, Alabi, and Forbes. Bayless signed at $4.3M plus 890k for Alabi and $1.5M for Forbes is enough salary for the Raptors to take back just under/over $10M.

    Raptors lineup:

    PG: Nash
    SG: DeRozan
    SF: Gay, Kleiza
    PF: Bargnani
    C: Okafor, JV

    Raptors have 2 second round picks, bi-annual exception, mid-level exception, TPE, and to round out roster and about $10M before they hit the luxury tax.

    Hmmmmmmm.... that is cutting it tight.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I love crazy trades. As for this one, Utah does not have their own pick. It is going to Minnesota as it was lottery protected from the Jefferson trade in the summer of 2010.
    Oh crap, you're right. I was just remembering for awhile seeing Utah having 2 picks in the ESPN lottery simulator, but that was when they were out of the playoffs. One option could be to get Utah's 2013 1st round pick (only possible if Utah gets Golden State's 1st round pick this year), then Toronto could either pass that one along to Memphis (essentially keeping my original trade in tact) or flip the #10 pick to Memphis (meaning Toronto would only have their own lottery pick this year and Utah's next year). Of course then Toronto could conceivably try to flip Utah's 2013 pick for some other team's 2012 pick.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I did say it was based on a few assumptions... which team didn't you think was getting a fair return?
    In your defense, your title does include the word 'crazy'.

    I just want to know why Utah takes on Calderon's salary when they already have a PG making a lot of money in Harris. Over 20 million is a lot to spend at the PG position, especially if they;re not superstar calibre.

    I think with the new owners in New Orleans, I have a feeling that they'd keep Okafor around and draft a center with their second lottery pick (Zeller, Leonard). Opening up cap room for the Hornets at this point doesn't make much sense considering no one is really banging down the doors to play for New Orleans - at least not at this point.

    And why do the Grizz give up a superstar in Gay in a trade that is essentially 65 cents to the dollar?

    I appreciate the effort, but it just seems unlikely.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    In your defense, your title does include the word 'crazy'.

    I just want to know why Utah takes on Calderon's salary when they already have a PG making a lot of money in Harris. Over 20 million is a lot to spend at the PG position, especially if they;re not superstar calibre.

    I think with the new owners in New Orleans, I have a feeling that they'd keep Okafor around and draft a center with their second lottery pick (Zeller, Leonard). Opening up cap room for the Hornets at this point doesn't make much sense considering no one is really banging down the doors to play for New Orleans - at least not at this point.

    And why do the Grizz give up a superstar in Gay in a trade that is essentially 65 cents to the dollar?

    I appreciate the effort, but it just seems unlikely.
    There is a lot of rumours from New Orleans press about Okafor getting the amnesty and a preference of Kaman over Emeka.

    The Grizz are a luxury tax team on the qualifying offer to Mayo alone - and it does not look like they will get out of the first round. The trades in here are probably not going to get it done but it seems one of Randolph or Rudy are going to have to go unless Heisley is prepared to be a tax payer in a more punitive CBA world. A deal with a starter/rotational player, prospect, and lotto pick might just get it done.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There is a lot of rumours from New Orleans press about Okafor getting the amnesty and a preference of Kaman over Emeka.

    The Grizz are a luxury tax team on the qualifying offer to Mayo alone - and it does not look like they will get out of the first round. The trades in here are probably not going to get it done but it seems one of Randolph or Rudy are going to have to go unless Heisley is prepared to be a tax payer in a more punitive CBA world. A deal with a starter/rotational player, prospect, and lotto pick might just get it done.
    If there's talk that Okafor is going to get amnesty'ed, they would be better off just doing so, instead of taking on Forbes and Kleiza plus giving up a draft selection - and a lotto one at that (OP). In reagrds to the deal you proposed, the Hornets would be just as served keeping Okafor for the next 2 seasons instead of taking on Harris and Amir.

    I understand the talk about The Grizzlies and crying poor, and if they were to trade Gay, Sacramento would be a better destination considering what Memphis would get back. Ariza, Ed davis and toronto's first rounder is being really optimistic to the power of a thousand.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    If there's talk that Okafor is going to get amnesty'ed, they would be better off just doing so, instead of taking on Forbes and Kleiza plus giving up a draft selection - and a lotto one at that (OP). In reagrds to the deal you proposed, the Hornets would be just as served keeping Okafor for the next 2 seasons instead of taking on Harris and Amir.
    From total dollars and cents, yes. From salary cap and flexibility next summer, no.

    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I understand the talk about The Grizzlies and crying poor, and if they were to trade Gay, Sacramento would be a better destination considering what Memphis would get back. Ariza, Ed davis and toronto's first rounder is being really optimistic to the power of a thousand.
    In another thread I stated Toronto and Sacramento as the only 2 teams who could offer talent and financial relief for Memphis. The issue is does Sacramento having owners will to take on $53M in Gay and do the Grizz want Evans back with Mayo possibly already around. Suggested offer might be optimistic to the power of a thousand but if you can find a better offer outside of the one I already put up in Sacramento that provides cap space, talent, and pick, post it please.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    From total dollars and cents, yes. From salary cap and flexibility next summer, no.



    In another thread I stated Toronto and Sacramento as the only 2 teams who could offer talent and financial relief for Memphis. The issue is does Sacramento having owners will to take on $53M in Gay and do the Grizz want Evans back with Mayo possibly already around. Suggested offer might be optimistic to the power of a thousand but if you can find a better offer outside of the one I already put up in Sacramento that provides cap space, talent, and pick, post it please.
    In regards to the Hornets end of things, on second thought, it does save them money, but why would the Raptors take on that salary? Even though he's only on the books for another 2 seasons, that salary is crippling to our flexibility.

    And the return for the Grizz, the more I feel it doesn't make sense for them. A Sacramento return of Evans and a pick just means they'd have to deal with the same thing a few years down the road with Tyreke when it comes to offering him a salary extension. They'd just be better off renouncing the rights to Mayo, or doing a sign and trade for a future 1st rounder (or second rounders) and just keeping Gay.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    In regards to the Hornets end of things, on second thought, it does save them money, but why would the Raptors take on that salary? Even though he's only on the books for another 2 seasons, that salary is crippling to our flexibility.

    And the return for the Grizz, the more I feel it doesn't make sense for them. A Sacramento return of Evans and a pick just means they'd have to deal with the same thing a few years down the road with Tyreke when it comes to offering him a salary extension. They'd just be better off renouncing the rights to Mayo, or doing a sign and trade for a future 1st rounder (or second rounders) and just keeping Gay.
    Regarding Okafor, capable starting C's don't come cheap. It would be a great way to ease JV in to things. The Raptors are currently $12M under the cap. Okafor brings them up to it - assuming no one else is sent out. I think he would be an expensive luxury to have given the Raptors need overall talent upgrades in every position. Bargnani, JV, and Okafor would be a nice rotation next year. Okafor becomes a nice trade piece the year after at the trade deadline.

    The Grizz have $62M tied up in 9 players for next year with no back up C or PF. 3 of those 9 players are also bit players. Factor in they are a (likely) first round playoff team I think decisions are going to be made. I'm not sure if it is Gay who goes, who knows? It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    You could probably get Kaman - or re-sign Gray for cheaper than Okafor. They're both capable.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    In your defense, your title does include the word 'crazy'.

    I just want to know why Utah takes on Calderon's salary when they already have a PG making a lot of money in Harris. Over 20 million is a lot to spend at the PG position, especially if they;re not superstar calibre.

    I think with the new owners in New Orleans, I have a feeling that they'd keep Okafor around and draft a center with their second lottery pick (Zeller, Leonard). Opening up cap room for the Hornets at this point doesn't make much sense considering no one is really banging down the doors to play for New Orleans - at least not at this point.

    And why do the Grizz give up a superstar in Gay in a trade that is essentially 65 cents to the dollar?

    I appreciate the effort, but it just seems unlikely.
    Utah
    - you are right that they'd be stuck with Harris, but I figured that they would simply look to move him in another deal (an $8.5M expiring contract would likely have some value around the league)
    - another option could be to trade Calderon for Milsap and then flip him to New Orleans (saves Utah cap space and they keep their TPE, plus it would be a better return for NO)

    NO
    - it all depends how desperate they are to unload Okafor; yes they could amnesty him, but that would cost them lots of money which the franchise doesn't seem to have
    - there are several options as to how the Raps could further sweeten the pot (ie: Milsap from Utah, or including a late 1st round pick)

    Memphis
    - I think a quality replacement (DeRozan), two solid backups (Johnson & Johnson) and 2 x 1st round picks would be a very good return for Gay
    - the deal would result in them saving $28M over 3 seasons, minus whatever amount they re-sign DeRozan for
    - the deal allows them to re-sign Mayo and still have additional cap flexibility


    Here is a slightly revised version of the trade: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7d6jyss

    - Utah trades salary out for Calderon, instead of using the TPE (Utah also wouldn't include any 1st round picks)
    - New Orleans gets a better return for Okafor & #10 pick (Milsap & Kleiza, instead of Kleiza & Forbes - could still include both 2nd round picks)
    - Memphis would get the #10 pick from New Orleans and Toronto's 2013 1st round pick
    - Toronto does NOT wind up with an additional 1st round pick, only their own lottery pick (unless they 'buy' a late 1st round pick and either give that one to Memphis or use it themselves)

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    You could probably get Kaman - or re-sign Gray for cheaper than Okafor. They're both capable.
    True. But to do that it would mean you have less options to round out your roster.

    I cannot wait for June 28th and July 11th to see how it all works out.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    True. But to do that it would mean you have less options to round out your roster.

    I cannot wait for June 28th and July 11th to see how it all works out.
    I think May 30th could really help start shedding light of legitimate options... or just cause even more questions! Definitely going to be a fun offseason with plenty to talk about here on RR

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