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  • #76
    RPT23 wrote: View Post
    I agree with what you said, but in saying that, "What if" Vince Carter played for the Vancouver Grizzlies instead? "What if" he brought his airial game to Van-city with all the flashy dunks, swagger dunks, and Tomahawk jams? Personally, I would think that the interest would certainly have brought up the investors into thinking, "Hey, we got something good here, let's try to market the #$%& out of this guy!" Of course, this is a "what if" scenario and there is certianly an unknown that will forever be unanswered. But my point (and perhaps some of the general thought that the people here who may agree) is that Vince Carter is/was an impact player and certainly would have improved the Grizzlies future and in some form or another should be appreciated for 'putting Vancouver on the map'.

    Again, you might think that Seattle had a superstar in the making, impact type of player in Durant (as a rookie) but he was never in the same "vince"inty as Carter himself (at least that's what I think) in the first 3 years.
    It is a possibility.

    I think the bigger what ifs in Vancouver would have been: 1) what if Stu Jackson was never hired, and 2) what if Big Country was never drafted.

    But again, these are things we will never know.

    I respect the opinions on Carter and his influence on Toronto, I just don't agree. Unfortunately, I"m not aware of anyway for one side to disprove the other without going Back to the Future.

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    • #77
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Unfortunately, I"m not aware of anyway for one side to disprove the other without going Back to the Future.
      Then its settled ... Marty, Get to the DeLorean!

      Comment


      • #78
        your mom wrote: View Post
        I really do hope that Toronto can get over the bullshit from a DECADE ago and appreciate Vince for what he was: a franchise player and game changer that put this city on the map and repped hard from day one.

        I'm a firm believer that if not for Vince's heroics in the early 2k's, this team would be the San Jose/Seattle/OKC Raptors by now. Please just respect what the man did and give him the standing ovation that is deserved.
        Sorry...you seem to be basing your plea on just half the professional athlete. I suppose a large majority of such are pretty narcissistic animals but VC was in an another gear. No doubt he was talented but what does that have to do with being a jerk to the franchise and setting it back thru his actions and forced departure by at least 5 years if not still being felt. It's the jerk thing you seem to not consider relevant at all.

        Another poster above made the case about his hall of fame credentials...a question then...how should we feel about him going in with a Raptors jersey? And would he choose it ?.

        I say "No" to both. Might reconsider if he apologizes and recognizes his douche ways at the time.

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        • #79
          Bendit wrote: View Post
          Sorry...you seem to be basing your plea on just half the professional athlete. I suppose a large majority of such are pretty narcissistic animals but VC was in an another gear. No doubt he was talented but what does that have to do with being a jerk to the franchise and setting it back thru his actions and forced departure by at least 5 years if not still being felt. It's the jerk thing you seem to not consider relevant at all.

          Another poster above made the case about his hall of fame credentials...a question then...how should we feel about him going in with a Raptors jersey? And would he choose it ?.

          I say "No" to both. Might reconsider if he apologizes and recognizes his douche ways at the time.
          If the raptors had done what they should have done (find out what Vince wanted, realize it wasnt going to happen, then quietly find a suitor) instead of getting rid of him for pennies on the dollar, this franchise wouldnt have been put back the 5+ years that it has.

          If we drafted who we should have and not guys like Rafael Arujao, we'd be in a better spot.

          Don't blame Carter for the mistakes of a poorly managed franchise. He still should get the ovation for what he has done.

          Comment


          • #80
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            A team that has consistently been above average in attendance, franchise value, and revenue is not getting moved.

            A team that has consistently been above average in attendance, franchise, value, and revenue in the 8 years since Carter left is not getting moved and made the playoffs just twice in that time frame is not getting moved.

            Saying that Carter kept the franchise in Toronto is akin to saying the world would be over had the Soviet Union not collapsed. Both are unknowns and could be considered ludicrous.
            I think this whole thread is an unknown, but during our darkest ages after VC left there's no question somebody had thoughts of moving the franchise, and killing the International team idea with the Raps and Grizz.

            Regardless of the what ifs, Carter needs to be appreciated and we need to get over what happened. He's done more for the Raps than any player in history, and that deserves a standing O.

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            • #81
              your mom wrote: View Post
              I think this whole thread is an unknown, but during our darkest ages after VC left there's no question somebody had thoughts of moving the franchise, and killing the International team idea with the Raps and Grizz.
              Absolutely right this thread is an unknown but I have never heard a credible source for the Raptors leaving Toronto.

              As for the 'dark ages' they lasted a little over a year. Wince was traded in December 2004. Colangelo was hired in February 2006 which ushered in a new era of hope and optimism (that was short lived) plus 2 playoff appearances 2 years later.

              If anything, I think the last year and half would be considered the dark ages for the Raptors and, outside of typical ignorant media and pseudo-US media wannabes, there is little credible peep of the Raptors going anywhere.

              your mom wrote: View Post
              Regardless of the what ifs, Carter needs to be appreciated and we need to get over what happened. He's done more for the Raps than any player in history, and that deserves a standing O.
              I respect your opinion but I have to take the other side.

              Carter does not need to be appreciated. I consider giving up on a franchise and its fan base that pay you millions and millions of dollars and, not only give up, but ensure they can't get anything near fair value is unforgivable. Carter might have done more than any player in history but he also did as much damage as any player in its history, and that deserves continued boo's.

              This might be drastic but I'll try to give an example to illustrate how people have different views:

              Some people can forgive their spouse/partner for cheating on them, others cannot. Whatever it is people deal with betrayal differently than others. There is a fine line between love and hate.

              So back to Carter, I can respect people forgiving Carter but I can also respect people for continuing the grudge.

              Comment


              • #82
                your mom wrote: View Post
                If the raptors had done what they should have done (find out what Vince wanted, realize it wasnt going to happen, then quietly find a suitor) instead of getting rid of him for pennies on the dollar, this franchise wouldnt have been put back the 5+ years that it has.

                If we drafted who we should have and not guys like Rafael Arujao, we'd be in a better spot.

                Don't blame Carter for the mistakes of a poorly managed franchise. He still should get the ovation for what he has done.
                Maybe you do not realize that Wince was a defacto gm for awhile there. He was quite instrumental in the new contracts given JYD, Alvin Williams and AD before he signed his extension. He called it a championship team. Let me take u down memory lane:

                http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nba/r...-01-carter.htm

                It was he who got the Raps to sign Hakeem and was pretty pissed that they drafted Bosh. So please I think you may have actually forgotten how things really were at the time. "Find out what Vince wanted"??? He told them...and they bent over. "Quietly find a suitor"? Do you know any timelines on this? Do you really believe that when VC started pulling his pouting bs other GMa were going to offer more than "pennies on the dollar"? The Raptors should have nailed his ass on the bench and possibly fined him (since they had lost him already) and helped raise his value by letting the shark gms that he wasnt going to be got for nothing.

                VC abrogated his contract and effed this organization. It's the org. we have always (well managed or not)...not any single player. You may think Carter deserves a pass...why? Because he performed high flying dunks, overdid the pain threshold thing and pouted? Good luck on those measurements applied to the athletes you admire.

                PS...are you still a Raptors fan considering the state of the team today? If you are why cant you expect your star franchise player at least honor the terms of his contract which he signed freely and happy to do so at the time...and then leave.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Yeah. Carter really grabbed a lot of power leading up to him signing the extension. He needed assurances that they were going to kiss his feet before he signed. *rolls eyes*

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                  • #84
                    That's true, I completely agree. I remember those days, as if he was playing fantasy GM or something to that effect. LOL. I never really thought of those points in that matter I guess. A part of me was hoping that he was really injured and wasn't giving up. Blah. I would still give him a cheer here and there, but that is all. I wouldn't be really enthusiatic anymore. But I'd be over the bashing Carter feeling.
                    #Raptor4Life, #Prepping4thePlayoffs

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                    • #85
                      he gets the ovation he deserves everytime he comes to toronto

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                      • #86
                        Yep, booing is a bit too petulant all this time later...but that's just me. What I object to/find a bit strange is this glorification thing for a guy who clearly did something that was definitely inappropriate from a contractual and emotional commitment to his team as if he was entitled to be treated more than special... and has yet to express any apology on the matter.

                        His sweater in the rafters indeed!

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                        • #87
                          Do you guys believe that what Vince Carter did (asked for a trade and mentally checked out) beats out LeBron's and Dwight's circus ?
                          “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

                          -- Charles Barkley

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                          • #88
                            torch19 wrote: View Post
                            Do you guys believe that what Vince Carter did (asked for a trade and mentally checked out) beats out LeBron's and Dwight's circus ?
                            worse then lebron and less douchy then howard but less honor as well. howard never quit, just insisted he wanted to be everywhere but where he was and play with every other player. his teammates must hate him. lebron was free to do what he wanted and most likely thought he was doing a good thing with the charity. i blame his reps for that as anyone with a brain would have seen the bad pr that was coming from that.

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                            • #89
                              torch19 wrote: View Post
                              Do you guys believe that what Vince Carter did (asked for a trade and mentally checked out) beats out LeBron's and Dwight's circus ?
                              LeBron was a free agent and had the right to leave. He really owed Cleveland nothing - he fulfilled his contract. My issue with LeBron is how he went about it and teaming up with 2 other all-stars in an attempt to win. I find people younger than me see nothing wrong with that but that was not how I was raised. Clearly it is a value call and people have different values. I think back to playing on the outdoor courts and winner stayed. If my team lost a bunch of times, there is no way I was going to take the best players off 2 other teams to try and win - you just didn't do that. Also, I just can't see players from the 80's and early '90's teaming up to win.

                              But back to Wince....

                              As for Dwight, I don't feel it was as bad as Wince but I think it is in the same neighbourhood. He had some games this year where one could definitely question his commitment.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Bring Vince back?

                                http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog...-vince-carter/

                                RaptorBlog(Scott): One of the reasons a lot of Raptors fans might be interested in your possible free agency plans is that a lot of fans hold on to the hope that you’ll finish your career in a Toronto Raptors uniform. Assuming the Raptors submitted an appealing offer in that situation, is that something you would consider?

                                Vince: Of course it’s something that I would definitely consider. And it’s something in the free agency this year, once everything was worked out with Phoenix and I was a free agent, that was a question I was asked by my family and by my agent. He’s like ‘what if?’ and I was like, ‘hey, definitely, we’ll hear what they have to say.’ So I never rule it out.




                                I hope he comes back. He should end his career here. And to be real, I'm over it. It happened how ever long ago, yes what he did was soft as **** but he is the best player to ever player here and the reason a lot of people got into this team.

                                I think Carter still has a year or 2 left and would welcome him back

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