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When could we 'contend' for Mr. Nash?

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  • #16
    Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Nash is cap room ... then it mentions amnesty for Jose - which is another $10M = Batum.
    Sorry if it wasn't clear ... but it was
    I think the Blazer match that. It's going to be tough to pry Batum away from the Blazers. They envision him and Aldridge their franchise guys going forward from what I read.

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    • #17
      DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
      calderon is great in a half court offence, but doesnt offer much in the open court,fast break style our team is suited for. BC said he wanted a PG who can push the tempo up a notch & nash is at his best when playing that style..& is a much better shooter then jose which would spread the floor more in a half court situation.. so yes i would say thats an upgrade in many ways & nash wont get anymore then what jose's making now anyways so its a no brainer..even more so if they amnisty or trade jose.. theyd still have all the cap space they have now to persue other high end talent. BC's also said his goal next season is playoffs, so id assume he thinks well be ready to contend for something.
      That's a really good point about how good Nash is in the open court as opposed to Calderon and more importantly how the Raptors are currently built to be an open court team and not a half court team. I'd be excited if they were able to sign Nash and it would bring instant gratification for the last few years of being a losing team. They would have to sign some shooters though as Casey had mentioned.

      I'm a bit concerned about the long term impact on the team of signing an aging player, as there is no reason to be hitting for the fences at this early stage of the teams rebuild and BC's need for self preservation should be a non-factor. However, it is a reality that BC is looking for an extension and if they can make a short term deal that falls in line with when the team is ready to contend I would be supportive. Just seems like signing a star makes more sense when we are ready to contend and not right now...

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      • #18
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        I think the Blazer match that. It's going to be tough to pry Batum away from the Blazers. They envision him and Aldridge their franchise guys going forward from what I read.
        Agreed 100% ... I could have used the name of any skilled SF with a rough value of $10M (not a superstar, but legit starter - that i'm hopeful that money could bring in through free agency, or a Jose trade) ... The idea being, someone at a higher level than JJ or Kleiza also being added to the unit - along with Nash and Jonas.
        The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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        • #19
          If the Raptors land Nash via free agency it might be most likely that the draft pick either starts at the 2 or 3 and DeRozan fills the other slot. Or the Raptors land a veteran wing with Jose and that guy starts with the rookie coming off the bench early on.

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          • #20
            Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post


            I don't want this to become a roster speculation thread; Let's say Bayless and Gray return, and we draft Lamb.

            Nash/Bayless/Uzoh
            Allen/Gordon/Mayo/Fields/Demar/Forbes
            PJ3/JJ/Kleiza (*or substitute someone similar)
            Bargnani/Ed/Amir
            Jonas/Gray/Magloire
            PJ3 with good direction (Casey) will be just fine, and there is alot more talent in FA SG then there is at SF...

            We already have a 1 dimensional shooting guard in Demar, why would we draft another?

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            • #21
              If we won't get 1st 2nd or 3rd draft pick, i would be not against trading our pick to land star player for example Josh Smith. Atlanta should be given up on him and the team lack of motivation, they need changes, so we could offer our pick and maybe Jose, ED/Amir and/or JJ for Josh, and after that sign Nash as free agent

              Valanciunas/Gray
              Bargnani/Amir (or ED)
              J. Smith/Kleiza (JJ?)
              DeMar/Forbes
              Nash/Bayless

              Then we could draft SG/SF with our second round pick or take a vet shooter (not Butler), or even Sonny Weems.
              Last edited by japetas; Mon May 14, 2012, 12:39 PM.
              (Sorry for poor English )

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              • #22
                I'm not with the program for Nash (the second best point guard in the league last year), especially if you simply amnesty Calderon (the fifth best point guard in the league last year).

                You're trading a 38 year old for a 30 year old.
                The 38 year old has 4 more assists per game ... but 3 more turnovers.
                Both are above average shooters; the 38 year old being better.

                If you were trying to win this coming year, you might take a one year gamble on the 38 year old to push an otherwise strong team over the top. If your window is 2-3 years out, and you already have a strong PG, why look to do a marginal upgrade to fix what isn't broken?

                Sorry Nash - go get your championship somewhere else - and come back here when you retire!

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                • #23
                  japetas wrote: View Post
                  If we won't get 1st 2nd or 3rd draft pick, i would be not against trading our pick to land star player for example Josh Smith. Atlanta should be given up on him and the team lack of motivation, they need changes, so we could offer our pick and maybe Jose, ED/Amir and/or JJ for Josh, and after that sign Nash as free agent

                  Valanciunas/Gray
                  Bargnani/Amir (or ED)
                  J. Smith/Kleiza (JJ?)
                  DeMar/Forbes
                  Nash/Bayless

                  Then we could draft SG/SF with our second round pick or take a vet shooter (not Butler), or even Sonny Weems.

                  I always forget about sonny...I think hes worth another look

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    The big difference between those guys and Nash is Nash makes those around him better. I think that is very important.

                    Also Iggy makes $3M more than Nash would at $10M and Granger about the same.

                    I could live with Batum at $10M but it would be a huge gamble based on continued development and consistency.

                    Jeff Green at $10M is scary, in my opinion.
                    I'd be okay with Batum at 7 - 8 million
                    and Green at 6 - 7 million
                    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                    • #25
                      Why is Batum a gamble? He's gotten better every year. It's not like he played sensationally in a contract year after a bunch of mediocre ones. I'd throw series cash at him.
                      @sweatpantsjer

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                      • #26
                        The reality of it all is Colangelo needs to insure his own survival and signing Steve Nash is the best way to accomplish that without question.
                        I guess thereinlies the problem. Will Nash help the Raptors or will he help Colangelo? thats tough, cause its hard to say what condition he would be in next year at age 38/39. And as quicker point guards come into the league, Westbrook, Rose, Wall, Irving, can he actively play defence/Casey build a defensive scheme to hide Nash's deficiencies.

                        Back to the forum title, the only way we can 'contend' for Nash IMO is (1) if he has desire to play in Canada,(2) we can offer him decent money, and (3) we make drastic improvements to our current roaster. (i.e., proven vets who can score and defend)

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                        • #27
                          ceez wrote: View Post
                          Why is Batum a gamble? He's gotten better every year. It's not like he played sensationally in a contract year after a bunch of mediocre ones. I'd throw series cash at him.
                          Given his current production, he is not a $10M player in my opinion (13.9 points, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, on 45%FG and 39% 3pt).

                          The gamble, in my opinion, is that he would consistently become the player we saw in February through early March. He has shown he can be a great player but not consistent..... yet?

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                          • #28
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            The big difference between those guys and Nash is Nash makes those around him better. I think that is very important.

                            Also Iggy makes $3M more than Nash would at $10M and Granger about the same.

                            I could live with Batum at $10M but it would be a huge gamble based on continued development and consistency.

                            Jeff Green at $10M is scary, in my opinion.
                            i thought about this point and I realized that there may be some negative effects to this. I.e. what happens to guys like Diaw, q-rich, dudley, etc. is they become the players they truly are when Nash leaves, and then you are left overpaying some guy who is putting up career numbers for a couple of years and then sucks for the rest of his career. It's a testament to how great of a player Nash is, but don't you think we could end up overpaying some guys on our team who we have now because we are given a sense of false security about them?

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                            • #29
                              BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                              i thought about this point and I realized that there may be some negative effects to this. I.e. what happens to guys like Diaw, q-rich, dudley, etc. is they become the players they truly are when Nash leaves, and then you are left overpaying some guy who is putting up career numbers for a couple of years and then sucks for the rest of his career. It's a testament to how great of a player Nash is, but don't you think we could end up overpaying some guys on our team who we have now because we are given a sense of false security about them?
                              That is a valid concern.

                              I'm not sure what the answer is.

                              I guess one can only hope a young point guard is found sooner than later who can have a similar effect as Nash.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Given his current production, he is not a $10M player in my opinion (13.9 points, 4.6 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, on 45%FG and 39% 3pt).

                                The gamble, in my opinion, is that he would consistently become the player we saw in February through early March. He has shown he can be a great player but not consistent..... yet?
                                And it's not just his offense. This is from Hollinger's profile of Batum: "The big mystery with Batum is why he's had so much trouble converting tremendous defensive talent into decent defensive performance. His defensive stats last season [2010-11] were horrible -- Synergy rated him the second-worst small forward, and the Blazers gave up 4.19 points per 100 possessions more with Batum on the court."

                                His performance this year is a bit better. However, according to 82games.com, he's still the only player among those playing at least 50% of the time who is a negative in the On Court/Off Court stat. http://www.82games.com/1112/1112POR.HTM

                                At $6-7 million, he would be a good pickup, but at $10m, he's not (like Matt said).

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