Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Raptors Net PER by Position

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    226
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Raptors Net PER by Position

    I just came across this team listing for the Toronto Raptors on 82games.com. Basically lists the PER for each position and its counterpart.

    Take a look:
    http://www.82games.com/0910/0910TOR5.HTM

    Kind of shocking

    Compare to the Heat, another average team:
    http://www.82games.com/0910/0910MIA5.HTM

    Versus a quality team like the Nuggets:
    http://www.82games.com/0910/0910DEN5.HTM

    Why are we only winning at one position a night? I thought our PG play at least should be clearly a strength, at least.

    Even the lowly Knicks win at two spots:
    http://www.82games.com/0910/0910NYK5.HTM

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    226
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Rockets are a very well run ballclub. They are winning the PG matchup on average, and doing so at a fraction of what we pay:
    http://www.82games.com/0910/0910HOU5.HTM

    A bit counterintuitive.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    They must be listing both Bosh and Bargs as centres. Apparently, we've got a superhuman monster at the 5 and the rest of the team is crap.

    I'm not sure, but I think that our 27.0 PER at centre is the highest positional PER in the league. Cleveland's SF is 25.6, the Lakers' SG is 21.5, N'Orleans PG is 22.8 and I can't think of anyone else who would beat them.

    So we lose one meaningless stat but win another. Let the wild speculation begin.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    884
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    82games lists Bosh as the center when he and Bargnani are on the court together and list Bargnani as the center when Il Mago and Amir are on the court together. Bosh is ruled the center when alongside Amir too. Rasho Nesterovic is the center no matter who plays alongside him.

    According to their statistics, Bosh is responsible for 69% of the minutes at center and Bargnani is responsible for another 17%. Rasho another 10%. And I presume the remaining four percent are garbage time given to the likes of Patrick O'Bryant.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    884
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It's somewhat surprising that the Raptors are winning only position battle by Net PER ... but only somewhat

    (1) They're a horrific defensive team that ranks dead last in defensive efficiency. Opponents pile up huge PERs as a result.
    (2) Hedo Turkoglu is rated as a mediocre player by PER and the Raptors have no backup small forward. Against a high opponent PER, Hedo and the SF position was always lost.
    (3) Lack of quality at the two spot, always were going to be at a major disadvantage

    That only left the point guard and power forward positions ... and for the first two months of the season the Raptors were routinely getting killed by opposing point guards so it's no surprise that they lost that position.

    The power forward spot is a bit of a surprise though. I thought Bargnani would have been rated highly by PER. He is, 17.7. And Amir Johnson is a very capable backup who has a good PER, oh, actually he doesn't. I remembered Amir posting PERs of around 18 (actually 17.5 when I look it up) for Detroit but he's down to 13.5 over the last two years. Couple that with the Raptors horrific defense and high opponent PERs ...

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hamilton
    Posts
    1,073
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The Raptors have not played evenly all season. PER and other fudged style analysis can't cope with wild swings in performance.

    In games 11-20, the Raps gave up 116 ppg and played like crap. Even Bosh only scored 20 ppg. Triano's line-ups and play calls were a bust - there is no adjustment for that. Opponents PERs were off the chart!

    In games 31-40 Raps give up 98 ppg and look like world beaters (except against Boston).

    The players PERs just average this stuff all out and it doesn't tell you anything. Means more over 82 games or several seasons.
    The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

    Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    226
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    To some extent you guys are right, this is a pretty crude tool to make inferences. But I'm not sure it is complete baloney. Anyway, the intent isn't really to criticize any players, so no reason to get so defensive
    For me the interesting thing is the spots I thought were strengths which maybe are not. Also interesting to see where other .500 teams (e.g., Bobcats) get their production from.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    144
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote brothersteve wrote: View Post
    The Raptors have not played evenly all season. PER and other fudged style analysis can't cope with wild swings in performance.
    Oh, but it can. ITS CALLED AVERAGING NUMBERS HEARDOFIT?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •