View Poll Results: Who do you select for the Raptors out of this group of remaining prospects?

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  • Jeremy Lamb

    16 26.67%
  • Kendall Marshall

    8 13.33%
  • Perry Jones III

    19 31.67%
  • Tyler Zeller

    0 0%
  • Austin Rivers

    5 8.33%
  • Damian Lillard

    5 8.33%
  • Terrence Jones

    2 3.33%
  • Jared Sullinger

    1 1.67%
  • John Henson

    3 5.00%
  • Terrence Ross

    1 1.67%
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Thread: Breakdown of BC's draft picks in Toronto

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  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Default Breakdown of BC's draft picks in Toronto

    We have a pick coming up this year in the 1-10 range, likely 8ish. How much confidence do folks have in Colangelo come draft night?

    People love to throw mud at BC and his draft choices it seems ... I personally think some of it is rooted in Raptors draft pains from the Babcock era - and some folks mix in the sentiment. BC didn't lose out on Iggy or Granger ... he drafted well.

    Our roster next year will be made up of many key pieces that were BC's draft picks.
    -Jonas, Bargnani, Demar, Ed and our pick this year (hopefully a rotation piece)

    And as much as there are always talented players passed up, in all cases there were players in the range we chose that would have been much worse picks. Let's see, by looking at the next 5 players in our pick's 'range':

    2006: #1 Andrea Bargnani.
    Then, in order: Lamarcus Aldridge, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams, & Brandon Roy.

    Aldridge was a nice pick, but not out of Bargnani's league as a potential all-star PF - or a retired Roy ...

    2009: #9 Demar Derozan.
    Then, in order: Brandon Jennings, Terrence Williams, Gerald Henderson, Tyler Hansbrough, & Earl Clark.

    Jennings would be cool, but wouldn't necessarily give up Demar for him at this point ...

    2010: #13 Ed Davis.
    Then, in order: Patrick Patterson, Larry Sanders, Luke Babbitt, Kevin Seraphin, & Eric Bledsoe.

    Sanders can block shots, but is way behind offensively. Bledsoe has shown signs, but still unrefined ...

    2011: #5 Jonas Valanciunas.
    Then, in order: Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker, Jimmer Fredette.

    Home run! Too early for big judgements on any of these folks - but what we've seen of Jonas since this draft appears to be a player much more developed than this group of rookies, still struggling to pick-up the NBA game ...

    So - do you have draft angst towards BC? As a talent evaluator, he seems to outperform his peers in many cases.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Hard to criticize the Bargnani pick. He was a tantalizing prospect at the time. The Derozan pick is more iffy. Guys like Lawson and Holiday went later and might have been more productive but the glaring wing need at the time (and still a glaring need) cried out for help. The Davis pick was fine. That draft was horrible. The JV pick was a good one even if it doesn't work out.

    My issue with Colangelo is his approach to team building (i.e. running as fast as possible to stay in the same place) and the poor strategic choices he made in 2006, which he compounded with reactionary moves in later years to fix the problems he created. I would have no issue with Colangelo as the head of player personnel or some such advising a GM. I just want someone else making final decisions.

  3. #3
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Neither Lawson or Holiday weren't being talked about as top ten guys.
    Last edited by Apollo; Fri May 18th, 2012 at 04:44 PM. Reason: darn iphone

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i voted for the Lambster but would be content with Lillard as well
    @jerboat

  5. #5
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Neither Lawson or Holiday weren't being talked about as top ten guys.
    Jrue was top 10 material and was projected top 10. IM sure he had one of the greatest slides of the night. Not sure why? he's turned out to be a very capable pg.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote DaveKim wrote: View Post
    Jrue was top 10 material and was projected top 10. IM sure he had one of the greatest slides of the night. Not sure why? he's turned out to be a very capable pg.
    There was a lot of talk that Colangelo was seriously looking at taking Holiday before DeRozan had a change of heart about Toronto. Most people forget that DeRozan for the better the draft process originally wanted no part of being here. He later did an about face when there were whispers of his stock dropping (and that was his fault because he didn't want to work out against anyone)

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Neither Lawson or Holiday weren't being talked about as top ten guys.
    For some reason I keep thinking Holiday went undrafted.

    Anybody want to help a guy out on who I'm thinking of or am i just trippin?

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Goddammit who voted Henson
    @jerboat

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Goddammit who voted Henson
    I don't know why but I find this to be hilarious

  10. #10
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    We have a pick coming up this year in the 1-10 range, likely 8ish. How much confidence do folks have in Colangelo come draft night?

    2006: #1 Andrea Bargnani.
    2009: #9 Demar Derozan.
    2010: #13 Ed Davis.
    2011: #5 Jonas Valanciunas.
    So - do you have draft angst towards BC? As a talent evaluator, he seems to outperform his peers in many cases.
    Bargnani was a bad pick when Aldridge was still available. Even Bosh publicly stated that he would choose Aldridge - this is unusual for a player to do. He might still be here if it were not for this mistake and the fortunes (on court) would have been night and day! Even with Bargnani's future improved play, it was still the wrong choice. At the time I was thinking, it's BC, I must be wrong. Didn't take too long after to see that it was he who clearly made the incorrect choice! Don't like players with knee problems unless it's a heavily scrutinized (informed) decision - Roy!

    I was upset with the DD choice because Lawson imo was clearly such a talent. Disappointed he missed Jennings even though I knew nothing about him - this should not excuse BC. Other players further down that he missed also.
    On the bright side DD's work ethic should lead to much future improvement and I have high hopes for him.

    Liked the Ed pick at the time so I have no say now. Loved Jordan Crawford and wanted them to find a way to get him at 27.

    Liked Fredette, Knight and JV in that order. His order was JV then Knight. Thought he did very well, but new decision makers were in the mix by then.

    Moving forward, I see them drafting better than they ever have - still worry about them missing players though!

    There are two players in this draft that I will be disappointed if they don't get.

    Nice work putting things in perspective - things are not as bad as we think: Even though they might have missed a few good players readers recognized, they look to have outperformed many teams in lottery selecting!

  11. #11
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Draft wrote: View Post
    Bargnani was a bad pick when Aldridge was still available. Even Bosh publicly stated that he would choose Aldridge - this is unusual for a player to do. He might still be here if it were not for this mistake and the fortunes (on court) would have been night and day! Even with Bargnani's future improved play, it was still the wrong choice. At the time I was thinking, it's BC, I must be wrong. Didn't take too long after to see that it was he who clearly made the incorrect choice! Don't like players with knee problems unless it's a heavily scrutinized (informed) decision - Roy!

    I was upset with the DD choice because Lawson imo was clearly such a talent. Disappointed he missed Jennings even though I knew nothing about him - this should not excuse BC. Other players further down that he missed also.
    On the bright side DD's work ethic should lead to much future improvement and I have high hopes for him.

    Liked the Ed pick at the time so I have no say now. Loved Jordan Crawford and wanted them to find a way to get him at 27.

    Liked Fredette, Knight and JV in that order. His order was JV then Knight. Thought he did very well, but new decision makers were in the mix by then.

    Moving forward, I see them drafting better than they ever have - still worry about them missing players though!

    There are two players in this draft that I will be disappointed if they don't get.

    Nice work putting things in perspective - things are not as bad as we think: Even though they might have missed a few good players readers recognized, they look to have outperformed many teams in lottery selecting!
    Aldridge was never a real consideration for the 2006 draft for the Raptors. Can you imagine BC, or any GM, using the #1 overall pick to draft a player who will only be a guaranteed backup player as long as your current young, franchise player is on your roster? Please, hindsight is one thing, but the Raptors were never ever ever going to draft Aldridge with Bosh as the focal point!

    The 2006 draft for the Raptors essentially was between Bargnani and the 3 wings - Roy, Foye and Gay. For the first few years lots of fans were wishing the Raps had drafted Roy, but where are they now? Foye is a decent rotation player, but borderline starter. Gay is a great player at both ends of the court, but he's also making about 50% more per season than Bargnani... is he worth the $16.4M he'll be making next season? I was and continue to be satisfied with the Bargnani pick... as a fan of his, I only wish we had gotten him with the #2-5 pick, so that so many fans wouldn't automatically heap the "#1 overall" expectations on his shoulders!

  12. #12
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Aldridge was never a real consideration for the 2006 draft for the Raptors. Can you imagine BC, or any GM, using the #1 overall pick to draft a player who will only be a guaranteed backup player as long as your current young, franchise player is on your roster? Please, hindsight is one thing, but the Raptors were never ever ever going to draft Aldridge with Bosh as the focal point!

    The 2006 draft for the Raptors essentially was between Bargnani and the 3 wings - Roy, Foye and Gay. For the first few years lots of fans were wishing the Raps had drafted Roy, but where are they now? Foye is a decent rotation player, but borderline starter. Gay is a great player at both ends of the court, but he's also making about 50% more per season than Bargnani... is he worth the $16.4M he'll be making next season? I was and continue to be satisfied with the Bargnani pick... as a fan of his, I only wish we had gotten him with the #2-5 pick, so that so many fans wouldn't automatically heap the "#1 overall" expectations on his shoulders!
    Aldridge would have played centre and probably has played some centre even for the blazers. He would not have been drafted with the intention of playing behind Bosh as you conclude. Bargnani's natural position is PF but he was drafted to play centre beside Bosh. Don't think this was a concern at the time - BC was just really enamoured by Bargnani's potential and versatility. Possibly, not even BC saw him as a #1 pick. Fact is, he tried to trade down to the 4 spot to get him but found no suitable takers. Like the fact that he was willing to take the player he wanted regardless of ranking though. Believe Bargnani will improved to the point where this is mostly forgotten but the damage has already been done. Would love to have Gay at $16.4 mil., don't know who would agree with me though. We would have the big shot player that we need!

  13. #13
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Draft wrote: View Post
    Aldridge would have played centre and probably has played some centre even for the blazers. He would not have been drafted with the intention of playing behind Bosh as you conclude. Bargnani's natural position is PF but he was drafted to play centre beside Bosh. Don't think this was a concern at the time - BC was just really enamoured by Bargnani's potential and versatility. Possibly, not even BC saw him as a #1 pick. Fact is, he tried to trade down to the 4 spot to get him but found no suitable takers. Like the fact that he was willing to take the player he wanted regardless of ranking though. Believe Bargnani will improved to the point where this is mostly forgotten but the damage has already been done. Would love to have Gay at $16.4 mil., don't know who would agree with me though. We would have the big shot player that we need!
    Aldridge was never in consideration - because there were whispers of him having back issues. I heard and read rumours of Colangelo wnting to trade down to acquire an asset and still be in position to draft Bargnani. However, if the Raptors hadn't drafted Bargnani at #1 themselves and intead traded down for a pick within the lotto, the Bulls would have taken him at #2.

    Gay at 16.4 million isn't worth it. 16.4 million per season is reserved for franchise carrying players. The Raptors should steer clear of players with salaries like that unless they are indeed those aformentioned franchise players.

  14. #14
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Aldridge was never in consideration - because there were whispers of him having back issues. I heard and read rumours of Colangelo wnting to trade down to acquire an asset and still be in position to draft Bargnani. However, if the Raptors hadn't drafted Bargnani at #1 themselves and intead traded down for a pick within the lotto, the Bulls would have taken him at #2.

    Gay at 16.4 million isn't worth it. 16.4 million per season is reserved for franchise carrying players. The Raptors should steer clear of players with salaries like that unless they are indeed those aformentioned franchise players.
    Never heard about Aldridge's back problems at the time. Would absolutely love to acquire Gay and believe he is a franchise player you can build a team around. People have to remember that DD & Ed came into the league as projects with high ceilings. They came with the label patience required: In time they should turn out to be pleasant surprises!

  15. #15
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Aldridge was never a real consideration for the 2006 draft for the Raptors. Can you imagine BC, or any GM, using the #1 overall pick to draft a player who will only be a guaranteed backup player as long as your current young, franchise player is on your roster? Please, hindsight is one thing, but the Raptors were never ever ever going to draft Aldridge with Bosh as the focal point!

    The 2006 draft for the Raptors essentially was between Bargnani and the 3 wings - Roy, Foye and Gay. For the first few years lots of fans were wishing the Raps had drafted Roy, but where are they now? Foye is a decent rotation player, but borderline starter. Gay is a great player at both ends of the court, but he's also making about 50% more per season than Bargnani... is he worth the $16.4M he'll be making next season? I was and continue to be satisfied with the Bargnani pick... as a fan of his, I only wish we had gotten him with the #2-5 pick, so that so many fans wouldn't automatically heap the "#1 overall" expectations on his shoulders!
    Trade the pick and maximize your assets then. They picked Bargnani and in hindsight (because Colangelo has said Andrea is a natural 4 now) it is the exact same scenario as picking Aldridge isn't it?

    Gay is making more money but you don't know what type of contract he would be signed to with the Raps currently. even then, i'd rather pay more money for a player that is committed to the game and getting better every year then a player who I am paying less to but coasts on whatever natural talent he has.

  16. #16
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    Quote Draft wrote: View Post
    Bargnani was a bad pick when Aldridge was still available. Even Bosh publicly stated that he would choose Aldridge - this is unusual for a player to do. He might still be here if it were not for this mistake and the fortunes (on court) would have been night and day! Even with Bargnani's future improved play, it was still the wrong choice. At the time I was thinking, it's BC, I must be wrong. Didn't take too long after to see that it was he who clearly made the incorrect choice! Don't like players with knee problems unless it's a heavily scrutinized (informed) decision - Roy!

    I was upset with the DD choice because Lawson imo was clearly such a talent. Disappointed he missed Jennings even though I knew nothing about him - this should not excuse BC. Other players further down that he missed also.
    On the bright side DD's work ethic should lead to much future improvement and I have high hopes for him.

    Liked the Ed pick at the time so I have no say now. Loved Jordan Crawford and wanted them to find a way to get him at 27.

    Liked Fredette, Knight and JV in that order. His order was JV then Knight. Thought he did very well, but new decision makers were in the mix by then.

    Moving forward, I see them drafting better than they ever have - still worry about them missing players though!

    There are two players in this draft that I will be disappointed if they don't get.

    Nice work putting things in perspective - things are not as bad as we think: Even though they might have missed a few good players readers recognized, they look to have outperformed many teams in lottery selecting!
    +1
    It just goes to show how much of a crapshoot this is, and how much emphasis we put on ONE move making or breaking a team. I think I'll read this over and over to get rid of my nerves heading into the draft

  17. #17
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    Can't really fault BC for missing guys who went 8 picks later and then turned out to be good. That would make every GM who passed on the guy that turned into an all star after coming out of the second round a complete dufus.

    There will always be players who don't blossom until after they get into the NBA. For whatever reason. And you can't necessarily credit the GM's who happen to have these guys fall into their laps.

    List of guys and years that made a league full of GM's look stupid (at least the ones drafting later in the first round).

    Jerome Kersey (Portland, 1984), 46th pick
    Mark Price (Dallas, 1986), the first pick of the second, All-NBA first team in '93,his career mark of 90.3 percent from the free-throw line was a league record.
    Jeff Hornacek -- (Phoenix, 1986) the 46th pick of the draft, won the All-Star 3-point Shootout in 1998 and 2000.
    Dennis Rodman (Detroit, 1986) twice Defensive Player of the Year,seven times was an All-Defensive First Team
    Kevin Duckworth (San Antonio, 1986)
    Antonio Davis (Indiana, 1990), All-Star
    Cedric Ceballos (Phoenix, 1990, 48th pick, was an All-Star in '95
    Nick Van Exel (Lakers, 1993)
    Eric Snow (Milwaukee, 1995)
    Rashard Lewis -- (Seattle, 1998), 32nd pick, a two-time All-Star
    Manu Ginobili (San Antonio, 1999), 57th
    Michael Redd (Milwaukee, 2000), 43rd pick, increased his scoring average six years in a row to 26.7 a game in '07.
    Gilbert Arenas -- (Golden State, 2001) a three-time All-Star.
    Carlos Boozer (Cleveland, 2002), 35th pick, the two-time All-Star won a gold medal at the 2008 Olympics.
    Trevor Ariza (New York, 2004)

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    if you think about it Kobe didn't come into the NBA with insane athleticism and a lights out shooter. He was still a work in progress and he worked his butt off to get to where he is, exact same thing demar is doing. Hopefully while hanging out in China with Gary Payton some of Paytons handles rubs off on DeRozan.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    if you think about it Kobe didn't come into the NBA with insane athleticism and a lights out shooter. He was still a work in progress and he worked his butt off to get to where he is, exact same thing demar is doing. Hopefully while hanging out in China with Gary Payton some of Paytons handles rubs off on DeRozan.
    Did you really just compare Kobe to DeRozan? Yikes.
    Bryant didn't have crazy athleticism coming into the NBA? There's no way he couldn't have had come into the league from high school without crazy athleticism. While I do agree his shot was a work in progress coming into the league, he was a better shooter than what most gave him credit for - and he worked harder on it. No one works out like Bryant. DeRozan has a long way to go before being mentioned in the same breath.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Did you really just compare Kobe to DeRozan? Yikes.
    Bryant didn't have crazy athleticism coming into the NBA? There's no way he couldn't have had come into the league from high school without crazy athleticism. While I do agree his shot was a work in progress coming into the league, he was a better shooter than what most gave him credit for - and he worked harder on it. No one works out like Bryant. DeRozan has a long way to go before being mentioned in the same breath.
    Well I'd say DeRozan and Kobe's athleticism(in his youth) are on par. Kobe was no Vince Carter in terms of Athleticism, You remember how kobe was drooling at the 2000 all star game when vince carter blew past him for the 360 slam. I don't want to start a whole argument here but i'm just saying how they both work hard to get better.

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