Breakdown of BC's draft picks in Toronto

[jimmie]

Game 7 of Mephis against the Clippers, 4th quarter in a close game with all of your season on the line. Rudy Gay produced, in 9 minutes of play: 3 rebounds, 1 turnover and a grand total of 2 fieldgoal attempts, both missed (one even meaningless with 17 seconds to go and trailing by 11).

BUST!!! Cut the deadweight now!

[Nilanka]

Game 7 of Mephis against the Clippers, 4th quarter in a close game with all of your season on the line. Rudy Gay produced, in 9 minutes of play: 3 rebounds, 1 turnover and a grand total of 2 fieldgoal attempts, both missed (one even meaningless with 17 seconds to go and trailing by 11).

A player's usage isn't entirely dependent on the player though. I didn't see the game, but I would think that Gay's underwhelming final 9 minutes was also attributed to who else was demanding the ball (Conley, Gasol, ZBo), and what coach Hollins drew up on the sidelines.

I agree with the idea that Gay should be the guy taking over in close games, but is he always asked to? Who knows.

[Matt52]

Game 7 of Mephis against the Clippers, 4th quarter in a close game with all of your season on the line. Rudy Gay produced, in 9 minutes of play: 3 rebounds, 1 turnover and a grand total of 2 fieldgoal attempts, both missed (one even meaningless with 17 seconds to go and trailing by 11).

What was the strategy of Coach Hollins?

I think Memphis is doomed with both Randolph and Gay.

Randolph is an alpha-dog (borderline selfish player when losing). He demands the ball and said as much very publicly after the series ended. He is also paid near max money.

Gay is paid max money. As long as he is paid max money the expectation among fans is going to be he should be giving max production.

I have no idea what went on in the huddles or what the strategy was but Gay looks to be in a lose-lose situation in Memphis in that if he is option 1, Randolph has a hissy-fit and the fans love Z-Bo but if he is option 2 he is a max player and now a world class bum in the eyes of fans.

Not to mention that the $16.5M that both Gay and Randolph make next year could very easily be used elsewhere in the roster to get a backup PG, back up PF, back up C, three point shooting, and scoring off the bench.

[Soft Euro]

A player's usage isn't entirely dependent on the player though. I didn't see the game, but I would think that Gay's underwhelming final 9 minutes was also attributed to who else was demanding the ball (Conley, Gasol, ZBo), and what coach Hollins drew up on the sidelines.

I agree with the idea that Gay should be the guy taking over in close games, but is he always asked to? Who knows.

I agree, that's why I didn't give any judgement. I didn't see the game either, but read quite some criticism about this performance (and thus his lack of assertiveness) afterwards (fair or not).

[MangoKid]

What was the strategy of Coach Hollins?

I think Memphis is doomed with both Randolph and Gay.

Randolph is an alpha-dog (borderline selfish player when losing). He demands the ball and said as much very publicly after the series ended. He is also paid near max money.

Gay is paid max money. As long as he is paid max money the expectation among fans is going to be he should be giving max production.

I have no idea what went on in the huddles or what the strategy was but Gay looks to be in a lose-lose situation in Memphis in that if he is option 1, Randolph has a hissy-fit and the fans love Z-Bo but if he is option 2 he is a max player and now a world class bum in the eyes of fans.

Not to mention that the $16.5M that both Gay and Randolph make next year could very easily be used elsewhere in the roster to get a backup PG, back up PF, back up C, three point shooting, and scoring off the bench.

Any deal for Gay would have to involve DeRozan, our 2012 first rounder, James Johnson and Ed Davis. At least. And I'd do it. Hands down.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Any deal for Gay would have to involve DeRozan, our 2012 first rounder, James Johnson and Ed Davis. At least. And I'd do it. Hands down.

If we could make it DeRozan, Amir, JJ, 2013 1st rounder and possibly later 2012 1st round pick (that Toronto 'buys' from another team), I'd be happy. I'd just prefer to do it without giving up our lottery pick this year and would prefer they take at least a little salary back (hence Amir, instead of Davis).

[MangoKid]

If we could make it DeRozan, Amir, JJ, 2013 1st rounder and possibly later 2012 1st round pick (that Toronto 'buys' from another team), I'd be happy. I'd just prefer to do it without giving up our lottery pick this year and would prefer they take at least a little salary back (hence Amir, instead of Davis).

I can't see Memphis doing it unless it's a pick this year. And I know they'd rather take Davis because he's cheaper, younger and the "potential factor". You gotta give up assets to acquire talent. It seems steep for Raptors fans, but we're talking about acquiring a real talent here.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I can't see Memphis doing it unless it's a pick this year. And I know they'd rather take Davis because he's cheaper, younger and the "potential factor". You gotta give up assets to acquire talent. It seems steep for Raptors fans, but we're talking about acquiring a real talent here.

I could really care less about Davis/Amir, but when we're taking on $16.4M in salary, I think it's only fair to send out more than $8M in return (which is what DD/JJ/ED would be making combined next season). Plus, Amir knows his role as a backup PF and brings the same hardnosed blue collar game to the 2nd unit that Zbo brings to their starting lineup. I'm also not certain they'd want a project in Davis, being in a "win now" mode, especially if they'd also be adding 2 1st round draft picks this season. Remember, Amir is still relatively young too.

I certainly wouldn't do it for Davis AND this year's lottery pick, because then BC would be left with very few options to improve the team, beyond upgrading DD for Gay. The trade would eat up 2/3 of the projected $12M cap space and there wouldn't be another lottery pick being added to the team. Suddenly the Raps would be left with about $4M in cap space and exceptions... all to add to a lineup consisting of:

C: Valanciunas
PF: Bargnani, Amir
SF: Gay, Kleiza
SG: Forbes
PG: Calderon

I think Amir would need to be included instead of Davis, to preserve some cap space for the Raptors, while still saving Memphis a significant amount of cash over the next few seasons! It's the inclusion of this year's lottery pick, in addition to the three players, that makes me a little hesitant.

[LBF]

Neither Lawson or Holiday weren't being talked about as top ten guys.

For some reason I keep thinking Holiday went undrafted.

Anybody want to help a guy out on who I'm thinking of or am i just trippin?

[MangoKid]

I could really care less about Davis/Amir, but when we're taking on $16.4M in salary, I think it's only fair to send out more than $8M in return (which is what DD/JJ/ED would be making combined next season). Plus, Amir knows his role as a backup PF and brings the same hardnosed blue collar game to the 2nd unit that Zbo brings to their starting lineup. I'm also not certain they'd want a project in Davis, being in a "win now" mode, especially if they'd also be adding 2 1st round draft picks this season. Remember, Amir is still relatively young too.

I certainly wouldn't do it for Davis AND this year's lottery pick, because then BC would be left with very few options to improve the team, beyond upgrading DD for Gay. The trade would eat up 2/3 of the projected $12M cap space and there wouldn't be another lottery pick being added to the team. Suddenly the Raps would be left with about $4M in cap space and exceptions... all to add to a lineup consisting of:

C: Valanciunas
PF: Bargnani, Amir
SF: Gay, Kleiza
SG: Forbes
PG: Calderon

I think Amir would need to be included instead of Davis, to preserve some cap space for the Raptors, while still saving Memphis a significant amount of cash over the next few seasons! It's the inclusion of this year's lottery pick, in addition to the three players, that makes me a little hesitant.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. The goal of the Grizz is to get the most amount of talent without taking back as much salary. Them getting Davis instead of Amir saves them roughly 3.5-4 million per year - and it could mean a make or break as far as a deal goes. I understand it would put Colangelo is a precarious situation, but that's why he gets millions of dollars - to make the tough decisions.

[Jclaw]

I know this is a bit naive but how much of a selling position is Memphis in? With all these max contracts, they are getting into luxury tax for a mid market team. They need cap space and not every team can give that to them. Are they just going to trade on max player for another and hope that creates the right mix without being able to add anyone else? And what other team is going to do that? I have no idea what that translates to but it does mean it might be an interesting couple of months. Money makes people do strange things

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. The goal of the Grizz is to get the most amount of talent without taking back as much salary. Them getting Davis instead of Amir saves them roughly 3.5-4 million per year - and it could mean a make or break as far as a deal goes. I understand it would put Colangelo is a precarious situation, but that's why he gets millions of dollars - to make the tough decisions.

Well Memphis would still save about $5M next season and even more after that (once JJ's contract expires). Plus, it's not like the players they'd be getting are useless contract filler. DD (at least) would be starting for them and both Johnsons would likely get pretty big minutes off the bench. AND they'd be getting at least one 1st round pick, which is a pretty big haul for a guy that some people consider overpaid.

[MangoKid]

Well Memphis would still save about $5M next season and even more after that (once JJ's contract expires). Plus, it's not like the players they'd be getting are useless contract filler. DD (at least) would be starting for them and both Johnsons would likely get pretty big minutes off the bench. AND they'd be getting at least one 1st round pick, which is a pretty big haul for a guy that some people consider overpaid.

Gay might be considered a tad overpaid, but he'd much more talented (and accomplished) than all the other players that would be coming back the other way. Some might say that it's not nearly enough talent going Memphis' way. In the end however, I don't think you'll see Rudy Gay here.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Gay might be considered a tad overpaid, but he'd much more talented (and accomplished) than all the other players that would be coming back the other way. Some might say that it's not nearly enough talent going Memphis' way. In the end however, I don't think you'll see Rudy Gay here.

I guess it all depends on whether Memphis prefers Gay or Mayo, and what other offers are received for Gay if he's the one made available. I think they'd be hardpressed to find a deal that nets them a young player with more upside than DeRozan AND a draft pick as high as #8 (regardless of who else is involved). If the Raptors did make a move that included the #8 pick, I hope they'd at least be getting Memphis' #25 pick back.

If the Raps had to include the #8 pick without unloading Amir's contract, I'd almost rather see them pursue a free agent like Batum or Mayo. I personally just think that DD, JJ, ED, the #8 pick and adding $8M of salary is quite the price to pay for Rudy Gay... almost too much, IMO.

[sleepz]

Game 7 of Mephis against the Clippers, 4th quarter in a close game with all of your season on the line. Rudy Gay produced, in 9 minutes of play: 3 rebounds, 1 turnover and a grand total of 2 fieldgoal attempts, both missed (one even meaningless with 17 seconds to go and trailing by 11).

And this means what exactly in regards to the comparison of him and Bargnani as players?

Is Bargnani even going to be the supposed go to guy of a team that makes the playoffs?

[sleepz]

What was the strategy of Coach Hollins?

I think Memphis is doomed with both Randolph and Gay.

Randolph is an alpha-dog (borderline selfish player when losing). He demands the ball and said as much very publicly after the series ended. He is also paid near max money.

Gay is paid max money. As long as he is paid max money the expectation among fans is going to be he should be giving max production.

I have no idea what went on in the huddles or what the strategy was but Gay looks to be in a lose-lose situation in Memphis in that if he is option 1, Randolph has a hissy-fit and the fans love Z-Bo but if he is option 2 he is a max player and now a world class bum in the eyes of fans.

Not to mention that the $16.5M that both Gay and Randolph make next year could very easily be used elsewhere in the roster to get a backup PG, back up PF, back up C, three point shooting, and scoring off the bench.

Very good assesment. I think with Gasol and Conley as key components of that team now I have a feeling they would prefer to keep Gay, however I think Gay is an easier player to trade and you could get back better players than trying to move Randolph.

[Soft Euro]

And this means what exactly in regards to the comparison of him and Bargnani as players?

Is Bargnani even going to be the supposed go to guy of a team that makes the playoffs?

This means exactly nothing in regards to the comparison of him and Bargnani as players. And I didn't say it did.

I reacted to your remark "Do you see a problem with Rudy Gay regarding motivation and lack of assertiveness now?" because a lot of people in Memphis do see this problem and his outing in the 4th quarter of game 7 was another pile of wood on this fire.

So, in regard to your second sentence: I did not mention Bargnani or even refer to him. But what does this mean in regards to the comparison with Pau Gasol?

[ceez]

3 people voted Henson?!?

[AJ360]

3 people voted Henson?!?

haha I "spite voted" for Henson after I saw your reaction to one person voting for him on the first page of this thread.

Although my real pick (PJ3) is another that I know you disapprove of lol

[AJ360]

Goddammit who voted Henson

I don't know why but I find this to be hilarious