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If the Raps could re-draft since 2005

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  • #16
    LBF wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure I entirely believe that. I mean don't you figure there is somebody in the organization or close that at least occasionally monitors fan forums, if not, twitter or facebook and that info is ocassionally brought up in meetings.

    Even if there isn't, nothing about the future or even the immediate future is set in stone. You could even make an argument about certain things in the near past.

    When you are going back years or even a year talking about irrelevant things that happened and was already looked over and done with and forgot about years ago.

    What the fuck is the point?
    If you don't think there is a point, just ignore the thread. Btw, I think you are a very brave man, daring to say 'fuck' over and over again (that is, if you're not telling us you have a boner).

    Comment


    • #17
      LBF wrote: View Post
      What the fuck is the point?
      LBF, I didn't mean for you to take it personally (or as a cheap shot at the Raptors management).

      I honestly did it for fun. I don't anguish over what could of been/ what hasn't happened but just wanted to kill some time during a slow day at work. I was going through the old drafts in the late 90s to see how players turned out.

      The 2004 and 2005 drafts had a real possibility of being different and those were pre-Colangelo years anyway. I was praying for Aldridge but there was the Bosh-factor so even though Bargs was a huge gamble I felt excited prior to the season watching highlight vids of AB.

      Apollo and Matt reiterated my point that in the later years the draft spot would be completely different had we made a home run selection. Especially the second round picks the odds are insane that we would pick those studs

      I have hope for the Raps future. JV baby.

      Comment


      • #18
        Darien - good point.

        Granger and Igoudala are both good players especially their defence presence but they were both the 'stars' of their respective franchises when payday rolled around.

        If they had been on better teams and weren't the #1 options they probably would of been closer to $10 million men.

        Bynum is a physical beast so no matter who he played for would of been paid top dollar.
        Last edited by connected; Sun May 20, 2012, 05:56 PM.

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        • #19
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          The problem is if the Raptors draft AI in 2004 then a domino affect happens whereby they probably are not in the same spot in future years.

          A lineup of Lawson, Iguodala, Granger, Aldridge, and Bynum (which never would have happened) is not going to be picking Valanciunas last year at #5.

          This is a fun exercise but you can do this with any team in the league. The overwhelming majority of times the draft is a roll of the dice with many factors outside of player talent is going to effect performance (coach, environment, teammates, role, opportunities, playing time, off court influences, etc.).
          I completely agree - just figured it would be a fluff debate about who we could of picked and who are the better players of people we didnt select Demar vs Jennings vs Holiday vs Lawson... I know, I know, definitely not very constructive for my first post haha

          Not to turn it into a negative post but you could also look at it as we haven't struck gold selection in the past 8 years. I think Bargnani was silver, Demar was maybe bronze and Araujo was a rusty pop can.

          I really hoping JV will end the succession though

          Comment


          • #20
            Soft Euro wrote: View Post
            If you don't think there is a point, just ignore the thread. Btw, I think you are a very brave man, daring to say 'fuck' over and over again (that is, if you're not telling us you have a boner).
            Just following the rules.
            If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

            Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

            Comment


            • #21
              @Connected

              I don't mean to come off harsh, I realize your new. But, this is one of the most common topics on the forum. I'm gonna say members have had this conversation prolly 100 times since I joined.

              It's like the old hooker that just has been used and abused and has every disease in the book. But, somehow just keeps on getting some.
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

              Comment


              • #22
                LBF wrote: View Post
                @Connected

                I don't mean to come off harsh, I realize your new. But, this is one of the most common topics on the forum. I'm gonna say members have had this conversation prolly 100 times since I joined.

                It's like the old hooker that just has been used and abused and has every disease in the book. But, somehow just keeps on getting some.
                Nah, I get it. I'm new so no skin off my back. If this was reddit my thread would probably get downvoted into oblivion.

                So let's look at it another way--

                It seems like all ball fans set OKC Thunder as the benchmark to build at team (key draft moves) they've done amazing

                but lets look at a few other teams [who have made smart draft choices and kept those players as their core --- and are competitive] since 2004:


                76ers
                2004 Igoudala 2005 Louis Williams 2007 Thaddeus Young 2008 Marreese Sprieghts 2009 Jrue Holliday 2010 Evan Turner ......... prime example - they haven't all been homeruns but very solid selections -- Brand was a key signing but he hasn't earned his huge salary

                Pacers
                2005 Danny Granger 2008 Roy Hibbert 2009 Tyler Hansborough 2010 Paul George .... West signing has given them an edge but once again a very well drafted core since 2004

                Bucks
                2005 Ersan İlyasova 2008 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute 2009 Brandon Jennings 2010 Larry Sanders ......... I left out Bogut beacuse he got shipped out and even when he was with them he was injured half the time so he hasn't really contributed to their current rise

                Hawks
                2004 Josh Smith 2005 Marvin Williams 2009 Jeff Teague .... Joe Johnson for Diaw was obviously a huge trade for them and Williams was a relatively big bust considering the talent that came in the draft after him... but the hawks have managed to stay competitive with the core they have drafted

                Bulls
                2004 Loul Deng 2007 Joakim Noah 2008 Derrick Rose 2009 Taj Gibson / James Johnson (I just put JJ there for raps fans)

                Honourable Mentions that don't meet my criteria are Utah Jazz (Deron, brewer, Millsap, Hayward, Kanter) and Spurs (their core formed well before 2004 Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and even now they always find diamonds in the rough)


                It's good to look at the past and it's okay to beat this horse to death because mistakes were definitely made by the raptors and these are all examples of teams who have built through the draft

                The raps need to do this

                Colangelo's set up of -- Bargnani, JV, DeMar, Davis and 2012 pick could potentially be a decent core... if JV and 2012 pan out we could get a key signing like a West/Brand/Boozer (did someone say Nash?) then we could enter playoff territory

                Comment


                • #23
                  LBF wrote: View Post
                  @Connected

                  I don't mean to come off harsh, I realize your new. But, this is one of the most common topics on the forum. I'm gonna say members have had this conversation prolly 100 times since I joined.

                  It's like the old hooker that just has been used and abused and has every disease in the book. But, somehow just keeps on getting some.
                  Nah, I get it. I'm new so no skin off my back. If this was reddit my thread would probably get downvoted into oblivion.

                  So let's look at it another way--

                  It seems like all ball fans set OKC Thunder as the benchmark to build at team (key draft moves) they've done amazing

                  but lets look at a few other teams [who have made smart draft choices and kept those players as their core --- and are competitive] since 2004:


                  76ers
                  2004 Igoudala 2005 Louis Williams 2007 Thaddeus Young 2008 Marreese Sprieghts 2009 Jrue Holliday 2010 Evan Turner ......... prime example - they haven't all been homeruns but very solid selections -- Brand was a key signing but he hasn't earned his huge salary

                  Pacers
                  2005 Danny Granger 2008 Roy Hibbert 2009 Tyler Hansborough 2010 Paul George .... West signing has given them an edge but once again a very well drafted core since 2004

                  Bucks
                  2005 Ersan İlyasova 2008 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute 2009 Brandon Jennings 2010 Larry Sanders ......... I left out Bogut beacuse he got shipped out and even when he was with them he was injured half the time so he hasn't really contributed to their current rise

                  Hawks
                  2004 Josh Smith 2005 Marvin Williams 2009 Jeff Teague .... Joe Johnson for Diaw was obviously a huge trade for them and Williams was a relatively big bust considering the talent that came in the draft after him... but the hawks have managed to stay competitive with the core they have drafted

                  Bulls
                  2004 Loul Deng 2007 Joakim Noah 2008 Derrick Rose 2009 Taj Gibson / James Johnson (I just put JJ there for raps fans)

                  Honourable Mentions that don't meet my criteria are Utah Jazz (Deron, brewer, Millsap, Hayward, Kanter) and Spurs (their core formed well before 2004 Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and even now they always find diamonds in the rough)


                  It's good to look at the past and it's okay to beat this horse to death because mistakes were definitely made by the raptors and these are all examples of teams who have built through the draft

                  The raps need to do this

                  Colangelo's set up of -- Bargnani, JV, DeMar, Davis and 2012 pick could potentially be a decent core... if JV and 2012 pan out we could get a key signing like a West/Brand/Boozer (did someone say Nash?) then we could enter playoff territory

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Nash will be gone by the time we reach there. If not he'd be around for one season.

                    I see what you're saying. It's all about management really. I'm curious to see what Stefanski brings this summer.
                    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                    Comment

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