View Poll Results: Who is a "Core" piece going forward? (Pick as many you like)

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  • Jonas Valanciunas

    46 92.00%
  • Andrea Bargnani

    31 62.00%
  • Demar Derozan

    22 44.00%
  • Jerryd Bayless

    3 6.00%
  • Ed Davis

    5 10.00%
  • Jose Calderon

    9 18.00%
  • Amir Johnson

    6 12.00%
  • James Johnson

    9 18.00%
  • None of the above! We don't have any!

    4 8.00%
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Thread: Who do you consider to be a "Core" piece going forward? Do we even have any?

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Default Who do you consider to be a "Core" piece going forward? Do we even have any?

    I was thinking about this today and was curious to hear what and who people consider to be 'core' pieces. Or foundation pieces. Do we even have any?

    I hear the term "Core piece" bandied about, but it seems to be a REALLY general term that has no true meaning anymore. Or does it?

    Sound off.
    Last edited by Joey; Sat Jun 2nd, 2012 at 06:03 PM.
    In Masai we Trust.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    This is usually a topic of serious debate. In a previous thread I called the philosophy and direction of the organization as the foundation and the 'core' players as pillars.

    It is safe to say that not everyone is going to agree with definitions or players suggested/selected.

    Regardless, to answer the question of your thread, my core pieces:

    JV (I know he has never played a game but until he proves he is not 'core' worthy, he is in my books).
    Bargnani (I hope this selection does not derail the thread).
    #8 (same reasoning as JV - you don't get high draft picks thinking they are not going to be special).
    DeMar (I consider him a core piece due to his age but he is not untouchable).

    My thinking at this time is your core players are your best starters and/or most promising players (especially with a rebuilding team like Toronto).

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    I would say:
    JV, Andrea, DeMar and the guy they trade the 8th pick for (think they will move it for a core piece).

    Is James Johnson the only 25year old that lead his team in blocks/game and steals/game that isn't considered a key piece going forward?

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    When I think of core, I think of someone who is an untouchable. The guy you don't want to lose unless you get back a super star/elite talent. For me the only guy I can think of is JV and that is because we haven't seen him play.

  5. #5
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    Quote The Coach wrote: View Post
    I would say:
    JV, Andrea, DeMar and the guy they trade the 8th pick for (think they will move it for a core piece).

    Is James Johnson the only 25year old that lead his team in blocks/game and steals/game that isn't considered a key piece going forward?
    I know JJ had some "issues" late in the season. Does anybody know what it was?
    WRT his play -IMO he compares favourably with Iggy, Wallace or even Granger & Rudy defensively. As for offence -a bit short with Rudy & Granger but in ALL cases at signicicantly less money. The only upgrades here I would consider are either Batum or AK47 or draft (Barnes maybe). The only reason I consider Batum & AK47 as viable is because those 2 would not cost us other assets (unlike Gay, Iggy or Granger).
    Since there are not a lot of options at PG (D Will -I am dreaming, Nash -what is the point for him?, Lin -please. We have a better player in Bayless & a lot less "circus") that leaves possible changes at 2 (draft only I assume) & 4.
    K Lowry might be most realistic option at upgrading PG. I don't think Houston will trade Lowry until they completely exhaust possibility of getting Pau Gasol.
    WRT Demar, we should know by trade deadline if he is a "core" or not. Maybe a stint with select team will do wonders for his confidence.
    Can we swing a deal for Josh Smith (Davis, Amir, 8th)? Does that make sense? In this case you split minutes at 4 & 5 between Smith, Bargs & JV.
    In summary that leaves Bargs & JV as only "core" guys. Everybody else is & should be expendable for a right deal.
    Last edited by Mapko; Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 at 02:20 PM.

  6. #6
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Great question.

    A core piece is someone who is:

    1) good
    2) realistic potential to be great, multiple all-star
    3) mentally willing to commit to the franchise
    4) young

    The closest that someone comes in is Bargnani, because he's got #1 and #3 covered.

    Core piece, though? No.

  7. #7
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    I think this really depends on what the goal of your core players is. I think we have some young talented pieces that can be competitive and fight for a playoff spot, but this isn't hockey and the 8th seed is almost a guaranteed first round knock out. If we are talking about core players for a team that consistently challenges for the NBA title, I think it is tough to consider any of our current players. At least right now.

    - Bargs can be counted on to score, but his D is average at best and he can't rebound the way you would like your PF to rebound. On a championship team I believe he could be a starter and a core piece, but you need to have the right players around him.

    - Val looks good from what I've seen him do in Europe and if he plays the way we all hope he will, he could be the center of a championship caliber team. He hasn't done anything in the NBA yet though and until I see him in TO I can't call him a core player.

    -Demar looks great some nights, but he's inconsistent. He can score, but that seems to be the only stat column he fills up (much like bargs). He's still young and hopefully he gets better, but as of right now I could only see him as a scorer off the bench on a team fighting for a championship.

    -JJ, Davis and Bayless have potential, but I think they are average rotational players at best. I believe they have the talent and can only hope they improve in the next couple years.

    I realize talking about a championship Raptors team at this point is ridiculous, but you don't build a team to compete for a playoff spot. You build a team to win it all. There is talent on this team and I hope we will see some of these guys playing for a better Raptor team, but if we don't see improvement BC needs to look elsewhere for championship core players.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    voted everyone but amir and jose. i believe in demar and jarryd and if in the future our bench players are jj and ed i would expect that to be a strong support system.
    Last edited by Miekenstien; Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 at 03:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    I remember at the end of the season presser DC sais something to the affect of "Next year I don't want to see the Bargnani we saw at the end of this year." This leads me to believe that if the Bargs we all know and can't stand is back next season, he'll be gone by next summer.

    Therefore no vote for Bargnani.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Default Core pieces

    .
    From my perspective Core reflects who is going forward with the club in this current Build. Are any of them untouchable - absolutely not. Even Dwight Howard can be traded - whatever the reason may be. NO player is untouchable on any team, given what may come back.

    As such, I feel the following are my choices for the Core:

    • Jonas
    • Andrea
    • Demar
    • Jose



    Fringe Core (depending on draft pick, and/or free agency):

    • Amir
    • James Johnson



    .

  11. #11
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    I don't view Bargnani or DeRozan as guys who can "lead" this team to the promise land. They're very good secondary pieces, but not guys who can carry this team for stretches. Therefore, I don't view them as "franchise players". Valanciunas *could* develop into one, but at this point he isn't one. I'd move forward with those three plus the lotto selection this year as our "core".

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    .
    From my perspective Core reflects who is going forward with the club in this current Build. Are any of them untouchable - absolutely not. Even Dwight Howard can be traded - whatever the reason may be. NO player is untouchable on any team, given what may come back.

    As such, I feel the following are my choices for the Core:

    • Jonas
    • Andrea
    • Demar
    • Jose



    Fringe Core (depending on draft pick, and/or free agency):

    • Amir
    • James Johnson



    .
    My thoughts

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Big Val
    Whoever we get with the 8th

    That's it. Everyone else is available.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Ed Davis - 7th Man backup 4 and 5
    Jonas Valanciunas - Franchise Center
    DeMar DeRozan - Starting SG
    Linas Kleiza - Starting 3 (trust me - one year removed from surgery we will see LK in good form next season)
    Andrea Bargnani - All Star PF
    Jose Calderon - transitioning to backup PG on a more reasonable contract

  15. #15
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't view Bargnani or DeRozan as guys who can "lead" this team to the promise land. They're very good secondary pieces, but not guys who can carry this team for stretches. Therefore, I don't view them as "franchise players". Valanciunas *could* develop into one, but at this point he isn't one. I'd move forward with those three plus the lotto selection this year as our "core".
    your view is wrong. Bargnani can do it.

  16. #16
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    JV, Bargnani and DeRozan. Really anyone but JV is movable in my mind but Bargnani and DeRozan have great talents and room for growth. Their value as assets has not yet peaked and this team is going nowhere great anytime soon so it's best to sit on those two and see how much higher they climb.

  17. #17
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    your view is wrong. Bargnani can do it.
    If he can do it, why hasn't he? Yeah, until he proves otherwise, my view isn't wrong. Nice try though.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    JV is definitely part of the core. I waivered on Bargnani, but selected him as well. If i don't like what I see next season I'll remove that tag pretty quickly.

    I don't consider Demar a core piece right now, he still has a long way to go in his development. If he had an amazing year than he'd be up for consideration.

    Everyone is can be traded, with the exception of JV, we need to see him for a few seasons at least and let his stock rise even more.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Our biggest core piece right now is Jonas ... but also at the core of how we move forward are Bargnani and Demar.
    Third tier would be Jose (although maybe short term), and James & Amir (if they stay in town).
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  20. #20
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    To me, a 'core' player would be a young, talented, nearly untradeable type player. 'Core' players don't have to be franchise players or even all-stars, just part of the core nucleus that the team will be built around going forward.

    Core - would only be traded for a superstar:
    - Valanciunas

    Core - would only be traded for an all-star calibur player:
    - Bargnani
    - DeRozan

    Fringe Core - readily available for the right price, could become part of the core under the right circumstances:
    - Davis/Amir (one has to be traded and the other needs to show improvement & consistency)
    - Kleiza (needs to show improvement & consistency; could become lethal 2nd unit scorer)
    - JJ (needs to show improvement & consistency; only as a 2nd unit player / defensive specialist)
    - Bayless (needs to show improvement & consistency; either needs to accept 2nd unit role or EARN the starting job)


    For the record, I only voted for Valanciunas & Bargnani. I am 50/50 as to whether DeRozan should be part of the 'core' at the same level as Bargnani, or whether he should be at the top of the 'fringe core' group of players that need to take the next step in their development in order to be considered a 'core' piece moving forward.

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