View Poll Results: What is your #1 concern with trading for Rudy Gay?

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  • His fit with the Raptors

    3 8.33%
  • His talent and ability (or lack thereof)

    1 2.78%
  • His contract

    8 22.22%
  • Assets required to get him

    24 66.67%
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Thread: The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Matt, the only concern I have with taking that approach is that a team like Golden State could conceivably offer #7 & Wright (if they can open up sufficient cap space to do so), which would then be more appealing than #8 & JJ/Davis, IMO. If Toronto was putting the only offer on the table then the logic works, but I think there could be a bit of a bidding war too, hence my inclusion of DeRozan. We also need to anticipate what similar offer Memphis might get, which gives them a lottery pick and the financial freedom to re-sign Mayo at least.
    Golden State would have to include Jefferson, Biedrins, Bogut, or Lee to make the numbers work. With Randolph and Gasol, take out Bogut and Lee. Jefferson is 2 years and $21.2M and Biedrins is 2 years and $18M. As I said in the initial post:

    Looking around the league there are rumours of Golden State wanting a star SF. GSW could provide the 7th pick, Klay Thompson, and Dorrell Wright. Unfortunately the numbers would not work and another contract would have to be added to make it work: the options would be Andris Biedrins ($18M, 2 years) or Richard Jefferson ($21.2M, 2 years). Jefferson creates a backlog at SF (and an expensive one at that) with still no backup PG or C. Biendris provides a backup C but one who averages 1.7 points and 3.7 rebounds in 16 minutes but shoots 11.1% (no mistype) from the FT line.

    The Grizzlies would quickly find themselves in the same situation they are already in given their owner is refusing to go in to the luxury tax. Wright is only on the books for one more year.


    If the Grizzlies were willing to take on Biedrins or Jefferson and the Warriors were also including #7, Wright, AND Thompson, then what they can offer is a better deal in my opinion. If it was just #7 and Wright, then Toronto's (fictional) offer is better in my opinion.

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i don't think anyone values jefferson, except golden state apparently.
    @jerboat

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    You could be right.. but even if you did persuade Memphis in taking Jefferson with Wright, that would net $13M in assets. That's just a $2M savings, which would not be enough to bring back Mayo and remain under luxury tax. If the key is monetary savings, then Toronto has the advantage no matter who we include as assets going back to them.
    The only team that can offer the financial savings and flexibility Toronto is capable of is Sacramento.

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Sacramento have said they're more than likely going to trade the pick too. To me, they're the real competition.
    @jerboat

  5. #65
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    You could be right.. but even if you did persuade Memphis in taking Jefferson with Wright, that would net $13M in assets. That's just a $2M savings, which would not be enough to bring back Mayo and remain under luxury tax. If the key is monetary savings, then Toronto has the advantage no matter who we include as assets going back to them.
    Fair enough. You're right that very few teams can offer a top-10 lottery pick AND legitimate young talent AND big financial savings to Memphis. Maybe only Toronto and Sacramento can offer Memphis all 3.

    That's the exact reason I keep thinking about DD/JJ/Amir/#8 for Gay/#25.
    - DeRozan replaces Gay as starting SF, can also play SG
    - Amir slides into the backup PF spot (replaces Arthur/Speights, upgrade over Cunningham), can also backup C
    - JJ slides into the backup SF spot (gives them offense/defense guys at SF, similar to Mayo/Allen at SG), can also backup PF
    - Memphis saves $4.3M next season, which they could use to re-sign Mayo
    - move up from #25 to #8, likely to select their new backup PG (ie: Lillard, Waiters)
    - the only position they'd still have to fill is backup C, which they can do with MLE/vet exception/min contract

    * if Memphis prefers Davis to Amir, the cost savings jumps from $4.3M to $8.1M for them
    ** if Memphis does prefer Amir, but want to save more than $4.3M, they could conceivably dump more salary on Toronto: Cunningham (1yr/$2.1M), Pondexter (1yr/$1.2M) or Pargo (1yr/$1M)
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Jun 4th, 2012 at 03:32 PM.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Fair enough. You're right that very few teams can offer a top-10 lottery pick AND legitimate young talent AND big financial savings to Memphis. Maybe only Toronto and Sacramento can offer Memphis all 3.

    That's the exact reason I keep thinking about DD/JJ/Amir/#8 for Gay/#25.
    - DeRozan replaces Gay as starting SF, can also play SG
    - Amir slides into the backup PF spot (replaces Arthur/Speights, upgrade over Cunningham), can also backup C
    - JJ slides into the backup SF spot (gives them offense/defense guys at SF, similar to Mayo/Allen at SG), can also backup PF
    - Memphis saves $4.3M next season, which they could use to re-sign Mayo
    - move up from #25 to #8, likely to select their new backup PG (ie: Lillard, Waiters)
    - the only position they'd still have to fill is backup C, which they can do with MLE/vet exception/min contract

    * if Memphis prefers Davis to Amir, the cost savings jumps from $4.3M to $8.1M for them
    ** if Memphis does prefer Amir, but want to save more than $4.3M, they could conceivably dump more salary on Toronto: Cunningham (1yr/$2.1M), Pondexter (1yr/$1.2M) or Pargo (1yr/$1M)

    Sacramento I think has the best chance of going after Gay, if Memphis wants cash. However I've never heard of a Gay to Kings rumour. And with the Kings ownership being so messy I would imagine that they'd take the 5th pick and run with it. I could be wrong (they did trade for Salmons last year, so don't mind having veterans).

    Outside of Sacramento, I can't see another team going after Gay. Possibly Portland - but they have Batum. Indiana has cap space, but they have Granger.

    If Sacramento is thinking Gay, then I'd definitely include DeMar to help sweeten the pot. However Sacramento could just as easily offer Evans, the #5 and someone like Garcia.. which I think might be better than DeMar, #7, Amir/Davis and JJ.

  7. #67
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Sacramento I think has the best chance of going after Gay, if Memphis wants cash. However I've never heard of a Gay to Kings rumour. And with the Kings ownership being so messy I would imagine that they'd take the 5th pick and run with it. I could be wrong (they did trade for Salmons last year, so don't mind having veterans).

    Outside of Sacramento, I can't see another team going after Gay. Possibly Portland - but they have Batum. Indiana has cap space, but they have Granger.

    If Sacramento is thinking Gay, then I'd definitely include DeMar to help sweeten the pot. However Sacramento could just as easily offer Evans, the #5 and someone like Garcia.. which I think might be better than DeMar, #7, Amir/Davis and JJ.
    It could come down to whether Memphis prefers Evans or DeRozan. Although DeRozan is only an inch taller (per ESPN), I see him transitioning to SF as much more likely than Evans doing so, especially with Evans having spent so much time at PG. Memphis has Mayo/Allen at SG and Conley at PG, so the fact that DeRozan could move to SF might make him more attractive than Evans (and he isn't near the head-case, if rumors are to be believed). Wouldn't it be ironic that the player we drafted because Evans was already picked, wound up being preferred in a deal to land Gay? haha

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Default Key words: 'likely' 'may' and 'if'

    For the second offseason in a row, Rudy Gay will likely be the subject of trade rumors.

    Last summer, Gay’s name repeatedly popped up in trade scenarios after the Memphis Grizzlies advanced to the Conference Semifinals while he was sidelined with a left shoulder injury. While the Grizzlies gauged interest in the small forward, they never seriously considered trading him. The organization wanted to see just how effective the team could be with Gay back in the lineup.

    Now, after a disappointing first-round exit to the Los Angeles Clippers in this year’s postseason, the likelihood of a trade involving Gay is much higher. League sources expect Memphis to shop Gay, who is owed $53,666,790 over the next three years. Gay is no longer considered untouchable, and he could be on the move in the next few months if the right offer comes along.

    If Gay does become available this summer, there would be no shortage of teams interested in the 25-year-old. The Golden State Warriors, Toronto Raptors, Brooklyn Nets and Orlando Magic are among the teams who would attempt to trade for Gay, according to sources close to the situation.

    Several executives believe that Memphis could to move Gay in a cost-cutting move since the team wants to re-sign restricted free agents O.J. Mayo, Marreese Speights and Darrell Arthur after already giving long-term deals to Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph and Mike Conley.

    There are plenty of executives around the league who believe Gay is a very talented player with a high ceiling. He has only been in the league for six years and his game is still developing. While he is owed a lot of money over the next three seasons, that shouldn’t scare teams away since his best basketball is likely ahead of him.

    During the 2011-12 regular season, Gay bounced back from shoulder surgery and averaged 19 points, 6.4 rebounds, 2.3 assists and 1.5 steals in 65 games. In the postseason, Gay had similar numbers, averaging 19 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.4 assists and 1.3 steals.

    This summer, Gay will attend Team USA’s training camp in Las Vegas and then he’ll work out in Miami to expand his game. Next season, Gay is determined to have a breakout year and hopes to make the All-Star team for the first time. Whether that happens in Memphis or in another city remains to be seen.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-gri...trade-rudy-gay
    I do not see the acquisition of Gay a treadmill move as many detractors seem to believe - but that is just my opinion.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    Gay has never lived up to being a #1 option in Memphis. I'm not confident he will fare better here.

    In fact, he will probably regress if he lands in Toronto.

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Gay has never lived up to being a #1 option in Memphis. I'm not confident he will fare better here.

    In fact, he will probably regress if he lands in Toronto.
    Anything to back that claim up?

    Canadian air? Funny money? No ESPN?

    You don't think Gay would have something to prove after being dealt? We are talking about a gold medal winning member of Team USA in 2010 World Championships and a player likely to get strong consideration for the Olympic team this summer.

    You think there is no room for improvement at 25 years of age? With his physical abilities, you don't think Casey could do some serious teaching and motivating?

    Do you not recall the numerous missed open looks Rasual Butler, James Johnson, and Gary Forbes missed all year - especially at the start of the season. Imagine a guy with Gay's talent getting those looks. Imagine the opportunities created for Bargnani with a scoring threat such as Gay.


    I'm fine with a difference of opinion but at least offer something concrete rather than, "In fact, he will probably regress if he lands in Toronto."

  11. #71
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Gay has never lived up to being a #1 option in Memphis. I'm not confident he will fare better here.

    In fact, he will probably regress if he lands in Toronto.
    Who said he had to be the #1 option in Toronto? With Valanciunas, Gay and either an improved DeRozan or a roster upgrade all on the court along with Calderon (or Nash) and Bargnani, I have no concern with scoring.

    Bargnani has proven to be a dependable 20pt scorer (yes, he needs to improve his efficiency), while being defended as the team's #1 scorer, playing on a much worse team than one featuring Gay. If you put Bargnani out there with a C who can get offensive rebounds, score and punish teams who foul him (Valanciunas) and two much improved wings (Gay & DeRozan or upgrade), with a PG who makes the whole team better, I think his efficiency is bound to improve just from forcing defenses to focus elsewhere.

    I actually think that lineup could be pretty dynamic offensively, with 1a/1b/1c scoring options (Bargnani, Gay & DeRozan), an inside banger (Valanciunas) and a distributor who can also knock down an open 3 pointer (Calderon/Nash).

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    that would be deadly. Gay, Bargnani, DeRozan and Valanciunas the big 4

  13. #73
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    Brian if you're reading this... get 'er done!

  14. #74
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Based on Alex Kennedy's article at HoopsWorld.com about Rudy Gay 'likely' available, here are the teams he mentioned and the assets they would likely have in a trade for Gay:

    Brooklyn:
    Cap space? No - unless they renounce Humphries & Lopez and Wallace & Farmar do not pick up options.
    Assets: Brooks, Farmar, Morrow. #57.
    Likely? I don't think so. MEM has no need for Lopez or Humphries in S&T. Would Brooks, Morrow, and Farmar be enough? Throw in Wallace as part of S&T and they lose OJ, Speights, and Arthur.

    Golden State:
    Cap space? No.
    Assets: #7, #30, #35, #52, Thompson, Wright
    Likely? I don't think so. To make a trade work, Memphis has to take back Biedrins or Jefferson (Lee and Bogut unlikely) and no money saved along with Mayo, Speights, Arthur lost.

    Orlando:
    Cap space? No - unless Redick not picked up, Anderson renounced, and Nelson does not pick up player option - then $8M.
    Assets: #19, #49, *crickets*
    Likely? More likely Dwight signs an extension, SVG is rehired, and JVG apologies to the Magic front office.

    Toronto:
    Cap space? A lot of it - no if's, and's, or but's.
    Assets: DeRozan, Davis, Amir, JJ, Kleiza, Forbes, #8, #37, #56.
    Likely? Seems most probable of these teams in my tainted opinion.


    The above does not consider 3 or 4 team deals because that would be unlimited in possibilities.
    Last edited by Matt52; Mon Jun 4th, 2012 at 07:04 PM.

  15. #75
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Did anyone else know Gay has a 7'3" wingspan? That is insane for a 6'7" barefoot, 6'8" in shoes guy.

    Also, pre-AllStar game this year he shot 39.4% from 3pt (34 games). I do think the schedule played havoc for a lot of guys this year. He shot just 25.5% over the last 31 games he played.

  16. #76
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    Brian if you're reading this... get 'er done!
    If he is reading this. I would figure him to be slightly insulted you spelled his name wrong.

    Even if he was reading this and all for it. He could probably name a bunch of good reasons why not to do the deal. The intellectual bastard that he is.

  17. #77
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    Brian if you're reading this... get 'er done!
    I always spell his name like that too lol.

    I was really on the anti-Gay (bad word selection, I am aware) wagon but Matt, I think you converted me. Bargs, Dero, Jose, JV, and Gay would be deadly (not to mention they would be coached by Dwane Casey). Wow. Gay can be a defensive monster with his athleticism.

    Only thing I am curious about is how Grizzly fans value Gay? I go on their forums from time to time and they are rather tough on him, but if they were to trade him they would want a lot back. If we were to trade for him and lose like JJ, ED/Amir, draft pick and someone else (really got no clue what we would throw at Memphis), we would then say goodbye to Batum or Nash and just sign role players with the cap space right? I am just trying to work out the rest of the roster additions.

  18. #78
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    I always spell his name like that too lol.

    I was really on the anti-Gay (bad word selection, I am aware) wagon but Matt, I think you converted me. Bargs, Dero, Jose, JV, and Gay would be deadly (not to mention they would be coached by Dwane Casey). Wow. Gay can be a defensive monster with his athleticism.

    Only thing I am curious about is how Grizzly fans value Gay? I go on their forums from time to time and they are rather tough on him, but if they were to trade him they would want a lot back. If we were to trade for him and lose like JJ, ED/Amir, draft pick and someone else (really got no clue what we would throw at Memphis), we would then say goodbye to Batum or Nash and just sign role players with the cap space right? I am just trying to work out the rest of the roster additions.
    If the Raptors send out at least $5M in the trade, they are sitting at the salary cap of $58M come July 1st.

    They could amnesty Jose to sign Nash outright but that would not be in anyone's best interest.

    Personally, I hope a sign and trade could be done so Phoenix gets something in return and Toronto can keep their exceptions (MLE and TPE).

  19. #79
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    If he is reading this. I would figure him to be slightly insulted you spelled his name wrong.

    Even if he was reading this and all for it. He could probably name a bunch of good reasons why not to do the deal. The intellectual bastard that he is.
    What if I told you that it was on purpose?

  20. #80
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    Bullets flying already, eh?
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Canadian air? Funny money? No ESPN?
    For one, no Grant Hills to tarnish his name.

    You don't think Gay would have something to prove after being dealt? We are talking about a gold medal winning member of Team USA in 2010 World Championships and a player likely to get strong consideration for the Olympic team this summer.
    Does having something to prove necessarily mean an uptick in performance?

    You think there is no room for improvement at 25 years of age? With his physical abilities, you don't think Casey could do some serious teaching and motivating?
    You seem to hold Casey's teaching abilities in high regard, despite him not having an opportunity to put them any use yet. Bargnani's defense is often misattributed to the arrival of Casey, but I think it's the result of his own hard work. He was committed to improving his defense even before we hired Casey.

    Do you not recall the numerous missed open looks Rasual Butler, James Johnson, and Gary Forbes missed all year - especially at the start of the season. Imagine a guy with Gay's talent getting those looks. Imagine the opportunities created for Bargnani with a scoring threat such as Gay.
    You are a peculiar one. Gay isn't nearly the shooter you make him out to be. While JJ, M&M, and Forbes are all subpar, I'm not really comfortable with Gay spotting up in the right corner either.

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Who said he had to be the #1 option in Toronto? With Valanciunas, Gay and either an improved DeRozan or a roster upgrade all on the court along with Calderon (or Nash) and Bargnani, I have no concern with scoring.
    Neither do I, but since you guys are all painting him as the next coming of Christ it's hard for me to believe otherwise.
    Last edited by Prime; Mon Jun 4th, 2012 at 09:45 PM.

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