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The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

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  • If we are moving for a borderline all-star I cannot think of a better options besides Gay or Gallo.

    how about we make those trades for 10 and 13 pick first before giving away our first rounder?

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    • draftedraptor wrote: View Post
      If we are moving for a borderline all-star I cannot think of a better options besides Gay or Gallo.

      how about we make those trades for 10 and 13 pick first before giving away our first rounder?
      Because then you can't offer Memphis the cap relief they are desperately seeking.

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      • LBF wrote: View Post
        Because that along with being a contender cannot be considered together. It has to be one or the other.

        # severe sarcasm
        Lol, no need for the hash tags. My original point was that the Raptors aren't going to be contenders even if they land Gay... they'll be back to that middle of the road status that all smart basketball people seem to agree is the worse possible place as a franchise.

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        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
          I can think of $53million reasons spread over the next 3 seasons. But if we are down to debating #25, then that is a start.

          I probably shouldn't have put that bit in about trading DD - already a lot of thoughts going on here - but I keep thinking about this:
          You have obviously put a lot of thought into this and have made a compelling case considering BC's statements and the rumours out there. Have you figured out (I may have missed it) who the competitors are for Gay? I have heard GSW. I havent heard Houston who have a couple of firsts and ironically Gay was theirs originally and they want some vet help as well. My point is can Memphis be squeezed here? As I have written before my preference is to retain this year's pick and rather make the offer to include next year's first protected to a certain level. That would be more palatable (I have no idea what next year's draft class is like).

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          • Bendit wrote: View Post
            You have obviously put a lot of thought into this and have made a compelling case considering BC's statements and the rumours out there. Have you figured out (I may have missed it) who the competitors are for Gay? I have heard GSW. I havent heard Houston who have a couple of firsts and ironically Gay was theirs originally and they want some vet help as well. My point is can Memphis be squeezed here? As I have written before my preference is to retain this year's pick and rather make the offer to include next year's first protected to a certain level. That would be more palatable (I have no idea what next year's draft class is like).

            The only 2 teams in the league that can offer Memphis huge cap relief and a decent lottery pick are Sacramento and Toronto.

            The only reason Gay is available is because of his contract - as Tim Chisholm said in his article.

            Squeezing Memphis will be not including #8 AND DeMar. They won't want Bargnani or Calderon. Ed Davis is expendable as is Kleiza or Johnson.

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            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              I can think of $53million reasons spread over the next 3 seasons. But if we are down to debating #25, then that is a start.
              That doesn't make sense. Why does Memphis include their #25 pick? They have no reason to. They're looking for cheap,young talent and to fill holes. The #25 pick is part of that solution for them.
              So, let me get this straight. Toronto sends their awful package of James Johnson, Ed Davis and a #8 pick for Gay AND the #25 pick? Has anyone gauged what the good folks over at any Memphis fan forums feel? Every single one I've been to feel that in order for any deal to happen, DeRozan and the #8 pick would have to be included as part of the package. I'd be inclined to think so too.
              Last edited by MangoKid; Thu Jun 7, 2012, 10:45 PM.

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              • From what I've read over a few Grizzlies forums is that Memphis doesn't necessarily have to trade Gay as they are not over the luxury tax threshold. But if they were to trade Gay, it would be to address any needs they have (2-guard, maybe a SF, backup big, back up PG).

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                • Fully wrote: View Post
                  Lol, no need for the hash tags. My original point was that the Raptors aren't going to be contenders even if they land Gay... they'll be back to that middle of the road status that all smart basketball people seem to agree is the worse possible place as a franchise.
                  Trust there is need for hashtags.

                  Sure adding Gay alone would do that. But, I don't think you are putting into account that the raptors need to prove they are serious in order to draw other top players.

                  Adding Gay would give further enticement for nash.

                  Bottom line:

                  Gay is not the puzzle. He is a piece.
                  If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                  Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                  • Don't get me wrong, fellas, I hope we get Rudy Gay for the lint i just found in my bellybutton, but I got this gut feeling that Memphis is gonna want the #8, DeRozan, Davis as a starting point.

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                    • I like the Chisholm article and completely agree. Davis, JJ, #8, #37 for Gay, #25. Memphis saves over $11M (next season's figures), move up 17 spots in the draft, add an early 2nd round pick and get two good, young, cheap players with pretty high upsides.

                      If BC wants to get back into the lottery, there appear to be several potential avenues to achieve that. TPE and #56 for Ariza and #10 seems the most obvious, to allow them to acquire Gay and pick just 2 spots lower than where their pick is right now.

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                      • Bendit wrote: View Post
                        I can understand that he may want to win a ring but he has a couple of years left imo to be a top shelf (or somewhat) PG. He can go any of the top teams but at a deep discount (vet min. or at best the exception). I dont know if he has expressed total willingness to do that though.
                        Agree. Think about it people...all those who say Nash wants a ring. Is a ring worth giving up three years at $10 million a year for? Oh, Nash should sign with Miami for $2 million a year for three years because he wants a ring? Give your head a shake. $30 million or $6 million. Why are we even having this conversation. Like Steve isn't going in the Hall of Fame after two MVPs?

                        Man, fans posting on boards live in some kind of dream/fantasy world. Steve will go where ever he can get the best deal (give or take a million or two, but not $22m or $27m) to ensure his family is set for the next three generations. Who gives a rats a#s about a freaking ring.

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                        • Can we pause to put some things in perspective?

                          For the life of me, I just can't understand all the warmongering and gnashing of teeth about "scrapping the plan after 1 year." For starters, don't give me this bull about "we've only been rebuilding for 1 year." We have been crap and we have been accumulating the according dividends of crappyness for several years now.

                          Secondly, what is meant by scrapping the plan?? As Chisholm notes (in a fantastic article btw -- thanks Matt) you HAVE to make a move at some point, you just have to. There is no such thing as a purely sedentary team that just accumulates lottery pick after lottery pick indefinitely until it all of a sudden jumps from the slum of the league to the conference title. There is a middle ground, and unless you are the Miami Heat or the Boston Celtics you MUST traverse it. Hence acquiring a significant upgrade in talent by leveraging something other than, or in addition to, talent (its worth noting, anecdotally, that there is a reason why BC is always so damn smug when he talks about his flexibility this off-season, and the assets he has to work with -- guess what? They're one and the same thing. As nice as it is to think of JJ and Amir as significant assets, they really aren't; it's our ability to eat up salary that is currently most valuable to other teams - read: Memphis.)

                          Does improving to an average or above average team with the acquisition of Gay (I'll leave it at just Gay for the sake of argument - needless to say though, his acquisition certainly doesn't preclude more moves) mean we are doomed to mediocrity? I certainly don't think so. First, each of our core players has room to improve over the next few years, second, our draft picks aren't going anywhere, so if we are in fact middle of the pack and not superb next year, we still get a reasonable asset - some of you are making it out to sound like we're creating a self-imposed life long ban on drafting by trading ONE draft pick. Third, while we won't have tons of money to sign people next year (not that we'd have tons if we stayed the course either, things get interesting for everyone next year cap-wise) we'll have enough (e.g. MLE), but more importantly, we'll have a team worth coming to. No one wants to sign with a team gunning for their 7th consecutive lottery pick.

                          Ultimately, right now we have a chance to leverage a temporary asset for something real and significant, partly due to our circumstances and partly due to Memphis'. If we let this pass, I think we'll find ourselves in a much worse position, not just in the short term, but the long term as well.

                          To those of you wanting to "stay the course": what is the course? Not just in method, but in result. What do you realistically see for this team's future if it doesn't make a move this summer? Personally, I see something like the Kings or Wolves, with a little more discipline and a little less talent, and it doesn't look pretty.

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                          • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            I like the Chisholm article and completely agree. Davis, JJ, #8, #37 for Gay, #25. Memphis saves over $11M (next season's figures), move up 17 spots in the draft, add an early 2nd round pick and get two good, young, cheap players with pretty high upsides.

                            If BC wants to get back into the lottery, there appear to be several potential avenues to achieve that. TPE and #56 for Ariza and #10 seems the most obvious, to allow them to acquire Gay and pick just 2 spots lower than where their pick is right now.
                            they could also seperately give 3 mill for memphis #25

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                            • http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/080201gasol_trade.html

                              the link for the then 27 year old 7 footer averaging 19 and 9

                              "The Lakers will also receive the Grizzlies second round draft choice in 2010. In exchange Memphis will receive forward Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie (who the Lakers signed earlier today), the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010."

                              this gay deal should get done for 2012, 2014 first round picks and salary matchers if history is any factor. it would be hard to argue that our number 8 is less valuable then even both of those lakers picks.

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                              • Put it this way, if Danilo Galliari is making the same money as Bargnani, then Bargnani is a bargain.

                                You can't spell Bargnani without Bargain!
                                TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

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