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The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

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  • #31
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't agree with A or B. The ideas are a point of discussion related to rumours swirling around the league. If the discussion was trading for Kevin Durant, I would most likely agree with you.

    A lot of Memphis fans will disagree with your statement on trading Randolph. The other issue with Randolph is what can he bring back in a trade? The idea of a solid 4 being easier to find than a solid swingman, if true, is something other teams will also be aware of. In trading Randolph the Grizzlies need to find a team that can live with his personal and injury history, his contract, and his age.
    Wait for the free agent smoke to clear and you'll have a better idea of who needs what. Randolph, although has had personal demons, could bring just as much in terms of talent and cap space back. Some team is going to fall in love with the fact that he's not far removed from being an all-star and a member of the 3rd all nba team.

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    • #32
      MangoKid wrote: View Post
      I don't get into the habit of conjuring up trades. You get caught up in it, you convince yourself that it's best for the franchise and when it doen't happen or the player of your affection goes elsewhere, there's either A: a lot of heartache or B: a lot of blaming/flaming the General Manager of your team because they didn't complete the trade you had conjured up.
      Sorry but during the off season (hell, even during the regular season) speculating and sharing ideas is all we've got.

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      • #33
        MangoKid wrote: View Post
        Wait for the free agent smoke to clear and you'll have a better idea of who needs what. Randolph, although has had personal demons, could bring just as much in terms of talent and cap space back. Some team is going to fall in love with the fact that he's not far removed from being an all-star and a member of the 3rd all nba team.
        Waiting for the free agent smoke to clear is extremely disadvantageous to both Toronto and Memphis.

        Toronto will not be able to use cap space via a trade without renouncing exceptions.

        Memphis will have been a tax payer and lost out on revenue sharing plus the possible opportunity to add salary via trade in the same situation as Toronto currently finds itself (space to acquire via a trade prior to July 1st).

        You could be right on Randolph but a team also might have a hard time forgetting his micro-fracture surgery a few years ago and torn MCL this year.

        Even hypothetically speaking that Memphis could get better trade value for Randolph (which I do not believe), the Memphis fan base would lose their collective sh!t if Randolph was traded. Gay is already Memphis-Bargnani and Randolph is hands down fan favourite.

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        • #34
          AJ360 wrote: View Post
          Sorry but during the off season (hell, even during the regular season) speculating and sharing ideas is all we've got.
          I never said you shouldn't do it. I just said I don't get into that habit. You can make up trades all you like, go nuts. Just please make sure that they're in the trade section/thread. That's all I ask.

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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Waiting for the free agent smoke to clear is extremely disadvantageous to both Toronto and Memphis.

            Toronto will not be able to use cap space via a trade without renouncing exceptions.

            Memphis will have been a tax payer and lost out on revenue sharing plus the possible opportunity to add salary via trade in the same situation as Toronto currently finds itself (space to acquire via a trade prior to July 1st).

            You could be right on Randolph but a team also might have a hard time forgetting his micro-fracture surgery a few years ago and torn MCL this year.

            Even hypothetically speaking that Memphis could get better trade value for Randolph (which I do not believe), the Memphis fan base would lose their collective sh!t if Randolph was traded. Gay is already Memphis-Bargnani and Randolph is hands down fan favourite.
            Very well could be. However, I don't believe that Memphis will run to the fax machines to complete the paperwork for a James Johnson-Ed Davis-#8 pick for Rudy Gay.
            Johnson had a run in with his coach and was benched, Davis somewhat regressed and the #8 pick, well, the Raptors already made it known that they would seriously entertain offers for it if it weren't in the top-3. Seems somewhat, well, odd weird that the Grizzlies would actually accept that - and I don't think they would. Mind you, as a Raptors fan, I wouldn't complain if that were the price because it's amazing from our standpoint, but it's crappy from Memphis' standpoint.

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            • #36
              MangoKid wrote: View Post
              Very well could be. However, I don't believe that Memphis will run to the fax machines to complete the paperwork for a James Johnson-Ed Davis-#8 pick for Rudy Gay.
              Johnson had a run in with his coach and was benched, Davis somewhat regressed and the #8 pick, well, the Raptors already made it known that they would seriously entertain offers for it if it weren't in the top-3. Seems somewhat, well, odd weird that the Grizzlies would actually accept that - and I don't think they would. Mind you, as a Raptors fan, I wouldn't complain if that were the price because it's amazing from our standpoint, but it's crappy from Memphis' standpoint.
              That is a fair assessment.

              What if Toronto included a protected 2014 pick? What if a third team was brought in? What if Toronto does a little manoeuvring prior to a proposed trade and gets some other players to include?

              Also what do the Grizzlies do with the financial savings? They re-sign one of Arthur/Speights and Mayo. They sign a good backup PG. Keeping Gay causes them to be unable to do these things.

              The logic might be flawed on my end but accepting the trade Toronto could offer might be better thought of as:

              Gay for JJ, ED, #8, Mayo, Speights, back up PG, player added prior to July 1st with cap space.



              Time will tell what actually happens.

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              • #37
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                The logic might be flawed on my end
                I remember last year there was a lot of talk of Rudy Gay to Raps, Cavs, Philly but Heisley was insistent that Gay wasn't going anywhere.

                The Grizzlies early exit from the playoffs, Gay's increasing pay cheque and RFA's needed to be signed may have changed the situation but I haven't seen any rumours of Gay being on the trading block.

                I'm with Mango on this ... I think you may have just convinced yourself that this is a real possibility. I think it would make more sense for Memphis to let Mayo walk, see how the draft plays out and wait till next year where they could easily trade Gay for a young proven talent, a six man [mayo-type] player + expiring contracts

                Our financial flexibility gives us incentive to make a deal before July 1 but not necessarily the Grizzlies

                We would be better off debating the benefits of trying to pry Mayo away at a reasonable contract without giving up assets rather than in-depth trade scenarios for Gay. Mayo 24mil 4 year contract?

                Kudos to you if it actually happens though

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                • #38
                  connected wrote: View Post
                  I remember last year there was a lot of talk of Rudy Gay to Raps, Cavs, Philly but Heisley was insistent that Gay wasn't going anywhere.

                  The Grizzlies early exit from the playoffs, Gay's increasing pay cheque and RFA's needed to be signed may have changed the situation but I haven't seen any rumours of Gay being on the trading block.

                  I'm with Mango on this ... I think you may have just convinced yourself that this is a real possibility. I think it would make more sense for Memphis to let Mayo walk, see how the draft plays out and wait till next year where they could easily trade Gay for a young proven talent, a six man [mayo-type] player + expiring contracts

                  Our financial flexibility gives us incentive to make a deal before July 1 but not necessarily the Grizzlies

                  We would be better off debating the benefits of trying to pry Mayo away at a reasonable contract without giving up assets rather than in-depth trade scenarios for Gay. Mayo 24mil 4 year contract?

                  Kudos to you if it actually happens though
                  The title of the thread is the case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors. I have no idea if it is a possibility or not. Without being a GM, I have no idea what is likely or possible.

                  What I did (or what I intended to do) was provide a reason why Toronto and its fans would want to trade for him.

                  There has been speculation based on Heisley's comments that financial decisions are coming for the Grizzlies.

                  If Memphis had another deal lined up (or a 3rd team was included in the trade) Memphis could have reason to make a trade prior to July 1st. If HoopsHype.com payroll figures are correct, they also have to shed $130K in salary prior to July 1st to not be a tax team.

                  There is a free agency 2012 thread to discuss signing Mayo.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    What I did (or what I intended to do) was provide a reason why Toronto and its fans would want to trade for him.
                    I understood that for your original post but wanted to be the devils advocate. You have made some good points and I would like Gay in Toronto but there a quite a few players under contract that cases could be made for (sticking to SFs - JSmith [for financial flexibility - semi-rebuild], WChandler [playing behind gallo], WMathews, DWilliams [if beasley is resigned])

                    A lot of these points could be duplicated in a "The case for Loul Deng to Raps" with Rose contract kicking in, boozer and noah already getting big pay cheques and an early exit this year. Omer needs to be signed and they are now targeting kidd/nash http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...In_Free_Agency

                    BC has always been interested in Deng and he has a more reasonable contract - since they are looking for pg help Calderon may fit that need

                    It gets complicated trying to create potential trade scenarios and whether the other team would need/want our assets without a rumour of those players being on the trading block or assumed value

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                    • #40
                      Great in depth analysis. I am 100% on board for acquiring Rudy Gay via Trade. He is already better than EVERY player on the Raptors. I don't think people realize how good Rudy Gay is. He is arguably the 3rd best small forward in the league, at 6'8-6'9, he can jump through the gym and he can shoot the ball. If you put him on the Raptors Team next season we are instantly top 5 in the Eastern Conference in my opinion. He will be at his peak for the next 5-6 seasons and we can definitely lure more free agents to Toronto with his presence.

                      Calderon (Lowry)
                      Derozan
                      Gay
                      Bargnani
                      Valanciunas

                      Salami and Cheese All Day!

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                      • #41
                        If another team were to come up with a better offer, one way we could potentially sweeten our deal would be to include Calderon (expiring) in return for Conley or Mayo (in S&T). Whether Memphis sees this as an upgrade or not is debatable, but if they'd really like a Gasol-Calderon pairing, it might tip the scales.

                        Something like this might be more attractive:

                        E.Davis / Calderon / J.Johnson / #8 pick
                        -----for-----
                        Gay / Conley

                        EDIT: This still saves Memphis $7-8M in the short-term, and saves them even more after next year (Conley's 5 yrs at ~$8M per), assuming they can re-sign Jose or another PG for cheaper.
                        Last edited by jrdyck; Sun Jun 3, 2012, 06:11 PM.

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                        • #42
                          jrdyck wrote: View Post
                          If another team were to come up with a better offer, one way we could potentially sweeten our deal would be to include Calderon (expiring) in return for Conley or Mayo (in S&T). Whether Memphis sees this as an upgrade or not is debatable, but if they'd really like a Gasol-Calderon pairing, it might tip the scales.

                          Something like this might be more attractive:

                          E.Davis / Calderon / J.Johnson / #8 pick
                          -----for-----
                          Gay / Conley

                          EDIT: This still saves Memphis $7-8M in the short-term, and saves them even more after next year (Conley's 5 years).
                          Sorry man, that's horrible (from a Memphis standpoint). Davis/Calderon/Johnson/#8 pick alone probably isn't enough to land Rudy Gay in a Raptors uniform.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            connected wrote: View Post
                            I understood that for your original post but wanted to be the devils advocate. You have made some good points and I would like Gay in Toronto but there a quite a few players under contract that cases could be made for (sticking to SFs - JSmith [for financial flexibility - semi-rebuild], WChandler [playing behind gallo], WMathews, DWilliams [if beasley is resigned])

                            A lot of these points could be duplicated in a "The case for Loul Deng to Raps" with Rose contract kicking in, boozer and noah already getting big pay cheques and an early exit this year. Omer needs to be signed and they are now targeting kidd/nash http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...In_Free_Agency

                            BC has always been interested in Deng and he has a more reasonable contract - since they are looking for pg help Calderon may fit that need

                            It gets complicated trying to create potential trade scenarios and whether the other team would need/want our assets without a rumour of those players being on the trading block or assumed value
                            A case could be made for just about any player. Taking BC's comments about a big off season, financial difficulties in Memphis, and the need for a star wing in Toronto, I think Gay is a fairly credible case to make. Chandler and Matthews (who I absolutely love as a role player) are not near good enough to call BIG. Beasley back to Minnesota does not seem likely given they were prepared to send him to LA at the deadline (Lakers said no in the end) plus Williams has not proven to be a legit SF. Josh Smith is another tweener of which the Raptors have a few (although none near his talent) and he does not solve the problem of a wing who can create his own shot.

                            As for Deng, I was not aware BC has always been interested in him. In 2010, supposedly, BC felt that his contract was too big and wouldn't take Deng back as part of a sign and trade with the Bulls for Bosh.

                            Raptors look at sign-and-trade options

                            The Toronto Raptors have talked to six to eight teams willing to do sign-and-trades for Chris Bosh, but front office sources say general manager Bryan Colangelo has ruled out bringing back the expensive contract of Bulls forward Luol Deng.

                            Deng has four years and nearly $50 million left on his contract, and the Bulls have been dangling him as part of sign-and-trade possibilities involving Bosh, LeBron James and Joe Johnson.

                            Colangelo is working on possible deals, but Bosh ultimately has to want to go to the teams. Besides Chicago, Miami, New York and New Jersey, the Houston Rockets and Dallas Mavericks are determined suitors for Bosh.

                            – Adrian Wojnarowski, June 30, 5:45 ET

                            http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...gentbuzz063010
                            The difference between comparing Deng in Chicago and Gay in Memphis is Chicago is a large market, Memphis is small. Memphis owner is dead set against going in to the tax, Chicago is unknown. Also, an ACL injury to their best player is the reason why Chicago went out early - and barely at that.

                            Deng also has a known back issue and a wrist that needs surgery (which he is putting off to participate in the Olympics).


                            In the end, no one knows what is going to happen but it is sure fun speculating.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              MangoKid wrote: View Post
                              Sorry man, that's horrible (from a Memphis standpoint). Davis/Calderon/Johnson/#8 pick alone probably isn't enough to land Rudy Gay in a Raptors uniform.
                              Are you sure? That gives Memphis a LOT of depth compared to what they have now, AND gets them away from the luxury tax (long-term), AND gets them a lottery pick. Maybe they aren't willing to give up Conley, but you can't tell me they wouldn't give it a good look.
                              Last edited by jrdyck; Sun Jun 3, 2012, 06:28 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                jrdyck wrote: View Post
                                Are you sure? That gives Memphis a LOT of depth compared to what they have now, AND gets them away from the luxury tax (long-term), AND gets them a lottery pick. Maybe they aren't willing to give up Conley, but you can't tell me they wouldn't give it a good look.
                                I can tell you that they wouldn't give it a good look. Like I said in a previous post....

                                Johnson had a run in with his coach and was benched, Davis somewhat regressed and the #8 pick, well, the Raptors already made it known that they would seriously entertain offers for it if it weren't in the top-3.
                                I don't think the inclusion of Calderon puts that offer over the top.

                                On the other hand, Charlotte could offer the #2 pick, Gerald Henderson (and/or Byron Mullens) and DJ Augustin - which is a significantly better offer.

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