View Poll Results: What is your #1 concern with trading for Rudy Gay?

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  • His fit with the Raptors

    3 8.33%
  • His talent and ability (or lack thereof)

    1 2.78%
  • His contract

    8 22.22%
  • Assets required to get him

    24 66.67%
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Thread: The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    James Johnson + Ed Davis + 1st round pick + TPE

    for

    Rudy Gay

    I would do this in a heartbeat, in fact I would throw in a 2nd round pick as well, no questions asked.

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    If he is reading this. I would figure him to be slightly insulted you spelled his name wrong.
    hahaha

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Bullets flying already, eh?
    For one, no Grant Hills to tarnish his name.

    Does having something to prove necessarily mean an uptick in performance?

    You seem to hold Casey's teaching abilities in high regard, despite him not having an opportunity to put them any use yet. Bargnani's defense is often misattributed to the arrival of Casey, but I think it's the result of his own hard work. He was committed to improving his defense even before we hired Casey.

    You are a peculiar one. Gay isn't nearly the shooter you make him out to be. While JJ, M&M, and Forbes are all subpar, I'm not really comfortable with Gay spotting up in the right corner either.

    Neither do I, but since you guys are all painting him as the next coming of Christ it's hard for me to believe otherwise.
    All that and you never gave any reason behind the statement in question. Clearly you are giving opinions which you have nothing to back with - and that is fine. I thought that originally but at least now it is confirmed.

  4. #84
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    Can you keep Demar and get Gay? You would think he would be on their list to get Gay, or all three of our picks. Not that I would complain if that was the case either way.

  5. #85
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Trades in the NBA that were primarily (or at least in large part) financially motivated:

    Kurt Thomas and 2 first round picks from Phoenix to Seattle for conditional 2nd round pick (2007).

    Marcus Camby from Denver to the Clippers for right to swap 2nd round picks (2008 - 1 season removed from DPOY)

    Zach Randolph (and Mardy Collins) traded from New York Knicks to LA Clippers for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley (2008)

    Zach Randolph traded from LA Clippers to Memphis for Quentin Richardson (2009)

    Pau Gasol to LA Lakers from Memphis for scraps, rights to Marc Gasol, and 2 late first round picks (2008 - yes it worked out in hindsight for Memphis but it was a steal at the time)

    Al Jefferson from Minnesota to Utah for Kosta Koufos and 2 lottery protected 1st round picks (2010)

    Tyson Chandler to from Charlotte to Dallas for primarily Erik Dampier's non-guaranteed contract (2010)



    While Rudy Gay to Toronto is purely speculative at this point, if the primary reason is financially motivated, there are a lot of examples of trades of really good players for little in return.

    A #8 lottery pick, solid role players, a savings of $15M against the cap/luxury tax threshold this year, a savings of a $53M/3 year contract shouldn't be, and the ability to keep 3 free agents and address other areas of need via free agency should not be scoffed at, in my opinion.

  6. #86
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    how about we forget the lotto pick and throw 'em the 2 second rounders
    @jerboat

  7. #87
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    All that and you never gave any reason behind the statement in question. Clearly you are giving opinions which you have nothing to back with - and that is fine. I thought that originally but at least now it is confirmed.
    Are we seriously going to go into this?

    Memphis' offense is one that relies on the dribble-drive and playing inside-out with players spread across the floor. For Gay, this is the best possible system to play in because it allows him to exploit his athletic prowess in isolation, where he hovers around 1.25 PPP. This approach only works if you have a big man who is a consistent threat in the paint and a sharpshooter waiting on the perimeter. The Raptors have none of the above.

    It's unfortunate to see you so butthurt after someone revealed the truth about your favourite player. I expected more from you, Matt. Too bad.

  8. #88
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Memphis' offense is one that relies on the dribble-drive and playing inside-out with players spread across the floor. For Gay, this is the best possible system to play in because it allows him to exploit his athletic prowess in isolation, where he hovers around 1.25 PPP. This approach only works if you have a big man who is a consistent threat in the paint and a sharpshooter waiting on the perimeter. The Raptors have none of the above.
    This assumes that obtaining Gay is the only transaction that takes place this summer.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #89
    Raptors Republic Starter Prime's Avatar
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    Then that'd be a different question entirely.

  10. #90
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    I'd still prefer Batum over Gay, personally. I'm not -against- Gay, per se, but I think NB is better value. He's a better defensive player right now, and has shown comparable ability offensively in bursts, and would come cheaper -- if Portland is willing to let him go. I'd rather (over)pay Batum $33M/3 years than I would Gay $54M/3 years.

    I also like Batum better from a chemistry standpoint. He's not a star player already, so he won't come in thinking he's the franchise, the way Gay would simply based on his salary and his role in Memphis.

    I'm not sure how likely Portland is to let Batum go, though -- if they want a player, they've proven they'll overpay to keep them.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  11. #91
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    I'd still prefer Batum over Gay, personally. I'm not -against- Gay, per se, but I think NB is better value. He's a better defensive player right now, and has shown comparable ability offensively in bursts, and would come cheaper -- if Portland is willing to let him go. I'd rather (over)pay Batum $33M/3 years than I would Gay $54M/3 years.

    I also like Batum better from a chemistry standpoint. He's not a star player already, so he won't come in thinking he's the franchise, the way Gay would simply based on his salary and his role in Memphis.

    I'm not sure how likely Portland is to let Batum go, though -- if they want a player, they've proven they'll overpay to keep them.
    I also really like Batum. I would love to find a way to add both Gay and Batum, but that's probably being too greedy.

    For me, one of my thoughts on acquiring Gay via trade, was that it also gives the Raptors an opportunity to unload some contracts and clear up some positional logjams at the same time. If the trade includes JJ and either Amir/Davis (regardless what else is included), it would make the cap hit more manageable and define both the PF (Bargnani, Amir/Davis) and SF (Gay, Kleiza) rotations.

    If Batum is acquired via free agency, the Raptors would be left with a lot of salary being paid to 3rd string players. Of course they could find other trades to rid themselves of the salary hit, but I'm not sure how they'd do it without taking on salary in return. One obvious option would be to use JJ and Amir/Davis to move up in the draft - either from #8 or possibly from #37 - which might then make a Batum signing more advantageous than a trade for Gay.

    All the Batum talk could very well be moot, as I expect Portland to match just about any offer. I'd be worried about trading away assets in the hopes of signing Batum, just to have Portland match, then being out the assets you would've used to trade for Gay.

  12. #92
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    I'd still prefer Batum over Gay, personally. I'm not -against- Gay, per se, but I think NB is better value. He's a better defensive player right now, and has shown comparable ability offensively in bursts, and would come cheaper -- if Portland is willing to let him go. I'd rather (over)pay Batum $33M/3 years than I would Gay $54M/3 years.

    I also like Batum better from a chemistry standpoint. He's not a star player already, so he won't come in thinking he's the franchise, the way Gay would simply based on his salary and his role in Memphis.

    I'm not sure how likely Portland is to let Batum go, though -- if they want a player, they've proven they'll overpay to keep them.
    I would agree with paying Batum 3/33 versus Gay but no one knows what Portland will or will not do in terms of matching. Personally, I think they match anything. No team will offer a max deal.

    Also going after Batum means all the exceptions would be renounced along with Bayless and Gray.

    Acquiring Gay gives the Raptors many more options - although it does result in losing #8.

  13. #93
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Does it though? Does it?
    @jerboat

  14. #94
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I would agree with paying Batum 3/33 versus Gay but no one knows what Portland will or will not do in terms of matching. Personally, I think they match anything. No team will offer a max deal.

    Also going after Batum means all the exceptions would be renounced along with Bayless and Gray.

    Acquiring Gay gives the Raptors many more options - although it does result in losing #8.
    One really intriguing part about making a deal with Memphis ahead of (or during) the draft, is that it could enable the Raps to maintain the $7M TPE (from Barbosa trade) beyond July 1st. Who knows, maybe they trade for Gay and could still make an additional move for a player like Chandler... as you said, so many options by going the trade route and adding salary.

  15. #95
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    One really intriguing part about making a deal with Memphis ahead of (or during) the draft, is that it could enable the Raps to maintain the $7M TPE (from Barbosa trade) beyond July 1st. Who knows, maybe they trade for Gay and could still make an additional move for a player like Chandler... as you said, so many options by going the trade route and adding salary.
    That $7.6M TPE can also be used in a sign and trade.

  16. #96
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    One thing I find interesting about these sorts of deals is the fluidity of the value of the lottery pick depending on the team it's being traded to. Thinking back to the Jermaine O'neal trade, I don't actually recall whether Indiana coveted the 17th pick as "the rights to Roy Hibbert, who they'd been scouting" or if it was just a placeholder to sweeten the pot. Or as another example, the 15th pick of last years draft had much more value to the spurs when they realised they could get Kawhi Leonard with it -- the 15th pick itself probably wasn't something they particularly cared about.

    So to tie this to the current deal: I wonder if (hope that) there are any players that Memphis might actually be interested in that could be available at 8 that might make this deal more enticing, and more likely to go down on draft night. I think that the value they see (financials notwithstanding -- despite their importance) in the package JJ + Davis + 8th will be largely dependent on who they think they can get with #8.

    Remember, there's a reason we're not in an uproar about giving it up -- it's a pretty faceless pick atm.

  17. #97
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    One thing I find interesting about these sorts of deals is the fluidity of the value of the lottery pick depending on the team it's being traded to. Thinking back to the Jermaine O'neal trade, I don't actually recall whether Indiana coveted the 17th pick as "the rights to Roy Hibbert, who they'd been scouting" or if it was just a placeholder to sweeten the pot. Or as another example, the 15th pick of last years draft had much more value to the spurs when they realised they could get Kawhi Leonard with it -- the 15th pick itself probably wasn't something they particularly cared about.

    So to tie this to the current deal: I wonder if (hope that) there are any players that Memphis might actually be interested in that could be available at 8 that might make this deal more enticing, and more likely to go down on draft night. I think that the value they see (financials notwithstanding -- despite their importance) in the package JJ + Davis + 8th will be largely dependent on who they think they can get with #8.

    Remember, there's a reason we're not in an uproar about giving it up -- it's a pretty faceless pick atm.
    Great points.

  18. #98
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    As a follow up. I knew Memphis had backup point guard issues, but I didn't realise how serious they were. My first thought is that if Lillard is on the board at 8, Memphis would eat this pick up. My second thought is that they have such a hole at point guard that they might not want a rookie being the number 2 option.

    Lol @ Gilbert Arenas + Josh Selby -- that's reminiscent of Ukic + Solomon (okay, maybe not that bad....maybe nothing will ever be THAT bad...)

  19. #99
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    One thing I find interesting about these sorts of deals is the fluidity of the value of the lottery pick depending on the team it's being traded to. Thinking back to the Jermaine O'neal trade, I don't actually recall whether Indiana coveted the 17th pick as "the rights to Roy Hibbert, who they'd been scouting" or if it was just a placeholder to sweeten the pot. Or as another example, the 15th pick of last years draft had much more value to the spurs when they realised they could get Kawhi Leonard with it -- the 15th pick itself probably wasn't something they particularly cared about.

    So to tie this to the current deal: I wonder if (hope that) there are any players that Memphis might actually be interested in that could be available at 8 that might make this deal more enticing, and more likely to go down on draft night. I think that the value they see (financials notwithstanding -- despite their importance) in the package JJ + Davis + 8th will be largely dependent on who they think they can get with #8.

    Remember, there's a reason we're not in an uproar about giving it up -- it's a pretty faceless pick atm.
    Valid points. The prospect of adding Rudy Gay and getting back the #25 pick, while freeing up logjams at PF & SF, are also pretty good reasons for Raptors fans to accept trading away the #8 pick.

    Lillard was exactly who I was thinking Memphis might covet in the #8 slot.

  20. #100
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    As a follow up. I knew Memphis had backup point guard issues, but I didn't realise how serious they were. My first thought is that if Lillard is on the board at 8, Memphis would eat this pick up. My second thought is that they have such a hole at point guard that they might not want a rookie being the number 2 option.

    Lol @ Gilbert Arenas + Josh Selby -- that's reminiscent of Ukic + Solomon (okay, maybe not that bad....maybe nothing will ever be THAT bad...)
    Selby is going to be good, he's just really green. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the #2 next year and challenging for starter in a couple years.
    @jerboat

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