View Poll Results: What is your #1 concern with trading for Rudy Gay?

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  • His fit with the Raptors

    3 8.33%
  • His talent and ability (or lack thereof)

    1 2.78%
  • His contract

    8 22.22%
  • Assets required to get him

    24 66.67%
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Thread: The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

  1. #101
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    I have to be honest, I didn't really read the list of reasons why this was a good idea...I just read the title. I think Rudy Gay is a great player and if DC got to him to become more of a defensive specialist, he would be fantastic.

  2. #102
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    im sure casey can squeeze some more D out of him but i dunno if he'd ever be Lebron or Kobe good. any above average wing defender would be a upgrade, really.
    @jerboat

  3. #103
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    Sorry, I didn't recognize you there, Mr.Colangelo.
    Until he proves that he can, this is just baseless banter.

    Hey let's throw some more ad hominems out there, shall we? Here's one: I heard your mom is just as flexible!
    Agree on all points. But it seems "clearly you are giving opinions which you have nothing to back with - and that is fine. I thought that originally but at least now it is confirmed."

    I think your optimistic disposition has clouded your judgement. The state of the roster is irrelevant to this discussion until Casey proves he can make do with actual talent.
    Regardless what happens before or after, trades should somewhat be considered in a vacuum. If any of DeRozan, JJ, Amir, Ed and #8 pick are traded for Gay, he would be the most talented player in the trade, who is vastly more talented than any player likely to be available @ #8 or is realistically gettable on the free agent market. Who cares what other domino-effect deals need to be made, whether it be via trade, draft or free agency? Toronto still gets the best available player in that deal. Gay is a very good offensive player and, from everything I've ever heard, a pretty good defender too. Does he solve all the Raptors woes? No, he's one player. But he'd immediately become one of (if not THE) best all around players on the roster. I don't understand the rationale for all the venom being spewed over an idea being proposed.

  4. #104
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Similar to the thread for the case for Steve Nash to the Raptors, I offer the case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors.

    Before I talk about the Raptors acquiring Gay, it is important to talk about why he is a likely trade target. Memphis is a very good NBA team. Unfortunately if they have not already done so, they are about to hit a wall. Here are reasons why:

    1) Finances. The Grizzlies have $54M tied up in Gay, Randolph, Gasol, and Conley. They have $62.4M tied up in 9 players for next year - and that does not include a proven backup PG, back up PF or C, bench scoring, or players capable of shooting from 3. The $62.4M also does not include the qualifying offers to Mayo, Speights, or Arthur nor the guaranteed contract of the 25th pick in the draft. 4 of these players makes the team an automatic luxury tax team if those offers are made and pick is kept.

    Straight from Michael Heisley's Canadian anthem butchering mouth:



    2) Piggy-backing on the finances, the Grizzlies need depth - specifically a backup PG, back up C, three point shooting, and bench scoring. Watching the Grizzlies play in the playoffs the last 2 seasons depth was the difference. If the Grizzlies hope to push beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs, these needs have to be addressed. The problem is since Heisley is not going to be a taxpayer (and miss out on the revenue sharing as a result) they need to address these areas with just $7.9M of salary.

    3) The argument of Gay-Randolph needing more time together is a false one.



    Gay and Randolph can co-exist. There are three problems with the pairing though:

    a) they are always going to be one injury to or one bad game from Gay-Gasol-Conley-Randolph away from not being their best,
    b) without paying luxury tax, they will have little depht to balance the attack, and
    c) to get the most out of one of Gay or Randolph, the other will have to take a back seat - and at $16M-plus per season, that is an expensive seat.

    4) Of their four large contracts, Gay is going to return the most value because: Gasol fills the toughest position in basketball (i.e. he is untouchable), Randolph is oldest with a sketchy past and owed $50M over the next 3 years, and Conley is a reasonable contract. Being a small market, non-luxury tax team the Grizzlies need depth over star power. They are going to be a better team with a strong back up PG and C and role players who can space the floor.

    5) Gay is the Andrea Bargnani of the Memphis fan base. For many fans the guy can do no right. If he has a good game and loses, they should have gone to Randolph more. If they go to Randolph, he is a bum because he is getting paid max money to put up less than max production. With Memphis taking Randolph on as their adopted son, Gay (and as a result Memphis) is in a lose-lose situation.


    So Memphis might trade Gay but why should Toronto be the trade partner with Memphis?

    1) Toronto can provide what Memphis needs: role players, high draft pick, and financial relief.

    Looking around the league there are rumours of Golden State wanting a star SF. GSW could provide the 7th pick, Klay Thompson, and Dorrell Wright. Unfortunately the numbers would not work and another contract would have to be added to make it work: the options would be Andris Biedrins ($18M, 2 years) or Richard Jefferson ($21.2M, 2 years). Jefferson creates a backlog at SF (and an expensive one at that) with still no backup PG or C. Biendris provides a backup C but one who averages 1.7 points and 3.7 rebounds in 16 minutes but shoots 11.1% (no mistype) from the FT line.

    Stephen A. Smith is adamant that Philly is going to look to trade Igoudala and mentioned a swap of Gay and AI as a possibility. Personally, I don't see that trade helping Memphis. It still leaves them with numerous holes in their lineup and gives them just an extra $1.7M to fill out their roster. AI's production and health has been in decline the last few seasons.

    Sacramento is the team - other than Toronto that makes the most sense - to trade for Rudy Gay. They have cap space to take on his contract, a high draft pick (#5), and a young player (Tyreke Evans) to send back. I do see problems for both sides though. For Memphis, Tyreke Evans is going to be looking to get PAID next year. That puts them back in a similar situation they are already in - especially if he has a return to rookie season production. For Sacramento, ownership is in a bitter battle that will likely end in relocation of the franchise and ownership is also suffering financially. Could Sacramento take on Gay and his $54M contract over the next 3 years?

    As for Toronto, a package of James Johnson, Ed Davis, and #8 pick provides depth to the roster, a possible starting replacement in JJ and/or the pick. This trade would also provide them with $7M in cap space prior to July 1st. If the trade was made with enough time before July 1st, they might be able to use that space prior to July 1st to get another player that fits a need (or 3rd team could be brought in on the trade). The Grizzlies could then look at keeping their own free agents after July 1st and/or using the MLE to round out their roster.

    To wrap up #1, I'm not sure the Grizzlies want what Toronto would be offering but, outside of Sacramento, I am having difficulty finding another trade partner that would offer as many benefits as the Raptors.

    2) Toronto needs a dynamic scoring wing. I do not consider DeRozan a dynamic scorer because he has difficulty creating for himself and is inconsistent from deep. Gay would provide Toronto with something they have not had since Wince left. He did shoot a career low of 32% from three last year but considering the abnormal schedule and return from shoulder injury, I think there is reason to believe he would return closer to his career average (and if lucky the 39.6% prior to his shoulder injury).

    3) Gay is only turning 26 in August. He is entering his prime. His biggest knock has been inconsistency on defense. He has all the tools, it comes down to motivation and teaching. Dwane Casey is a great teacher and motivator. I think Gay could take the next step as a near all-star to a legit all-star in Toronto.

    4) Rudy Gay is overpaid but the Raptors are not getting a player of his calibre without overpaying to begin with via free agency. Getting a talent such as him through the draft is hardly a guarantee and would take time to develop. With the current salary cap situation, Toronto would be able to take on Gay's contract with minimal short term or long term ill-effects. The highest paid players currently on Toronto are Calderon ($10.5M expiring after 12-13) and Bargnani ($10M, $11M, and $12M over next three years). Given Gay is only 26 and the remarkable influence Casey was able to have on Bargnani, after a few months of working with Casey, Gay might not be considered overpaid.

    5) Colangelo's comment suggest big things to happen this summer. Trading for Rudy Gay would be B-I-G in my opinion. TheScore.ca RaptorsBlog sums it up nicely:



    6) Toronto would have a young, dynamic and exciting front court for at least the next 3 years of Gay, Bargs, and JV with solid possible reserves in Kleiza, Amir, and Gray (assuming ED and JJ were dealt).

    7) Giving up a top 10 draft pick is never easy but it appears the Raptors might be able to get another draft pick fairly easily if they wish to:



    It is also important to remember that many feel Valanciunas would be the consensus #2 pick if he were in this draft. Plus the Raptors have an early 2nd round pick that might yield a promising player given the depth of the draft.

    8) Colangelo was very high on Gay in the 2006 draft. It was him or Bargnani from what I recall.



    If I left anything out on the case for Rudy Gay to Toronto add a post.

    I can think of arguments against Gay coming to Toronto but I figure I'll leave that to others because I think the positives far outweigh the negatives.
    This is an exceptional analysis.

    I thought that they could let Mayo walk which might solve some of the financial troubles but as you've said the number that they are looking at is calculated before qualifying offer for Mayo is factored in.

    Tough call. If I could move Randolph instead of Gay I would do it. I love Z-Bo but I think as long as they have GAsol they are in good shape underneath the boards and maybe you let Arthur, Speights and Cunningham show you if the have game. As much angst as Gay might create in the Memphis fan base he's still the player the coach is looking to in crunch time which says something.

    As for the Raps, I don't like it. Not because I don't think Gay is a solid player, but it would be indicating that they feel there is no need to further rebuilding and Gay will only make this team a mid-level team and your financial "flexibility" is now gone. If Andrea is part of the deal I would be more inclined to do it because you would have a real primary scoring option, but Memphis would not want to take back the salary.

    Are we looking for a few years of 7 or 8th seed playoff runs or are we trynig to build something meaningful and long lasting? Colangelo has NO plan. Never did and never will It changes year to year depending on his mood and even if they do make a trade for Gay we will never see a consistent winner in this city until a GM has the patience to try and build a proper foundation and work on acquiring young talent that can grow together.

    Colangelo is not the man for that job. His ego and job status won't allow him to think this way.

  5. #105
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    This is an exceptional analysis.

    I thought that they could let Mayo walk which might solve some of the financial troubles but as you've said the number that they are looking at is calculated before qualifying offer for Mayo is factored in.

    Tough call. If I could move Randolph instead of Gay I would do it. I love Z-Bo but I think as long as they have GAsol they are in good shape underneath the boards and maybe you let Arthur, Speights and Cunningham show you if the have game. As much angst as Gay might create in the Memphis fan base he's still the player the coach is looking to in crunch time which says something.

    As for the Raps, I don't like it. Not because I don't think Gay is a solid player, but it would be indicating that they feel there is no need to further rebuilding and Gay will only make this team a mid-level team and your financial "flexibility" is now gone. If Andrea is part of the deal I would be more inclined to do it because you would have a real primary scoring option, but Memphis would not want to take back the salary.

    Are we looking for a few years of 7 or 8th seed playoff runs or are we trynig to build something meaningful and long lasting? Colangelo has NO plan. Never did and never will It changes year to year depending on his mood and even if they do make a trade for Gay we will never see a consistent winner in this city until a GM has the patience to try and build a proper foundation and work on acquiring young talent that can grow together.

    Colangelo is not the man for that job. His ego and job status won't allow him to think this way.
    I can see where you are coming from. But, here are somethings that you would be so kind as to consider;

    -it depends on how long you think this rebuilding process should be and where you belive we are in the rebuilding process.

    - Think about the pressure Colangelo is under. Now, he's heading into year three of a popularly believed 5 year rebuilding process. With optimism probably the best thing going for the team.

    - Rudy Gay, okay, lets say he only brings us to mediocrity; 1. Is that not something better than what we have now?
    2. Is that not moving forward in the rebuilding procees?
    3. Is Gay going to be the only piece added through trade or free agency? 4. Is there not a whole lot of potential improvement from the guys already on this roster including Val?

    - if the flexibility is gone financially. Does that not leave trade and draft?

    -What is the right roster to grow together and how de we get that roster?

    -aren't we passed rebuilding and into building?

    - name me a player we could acquire better than gay possibly on the open market that would make us better than mediocre and less to give up than for gay?

    It seems to me you are thinking were just gonna run into another bosh era. I dont think that is the case. I'm not quite sure what you are looking for, it seems like you are just expecting for the raps to magically fall into a gold mine.

  6. #106
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I dunno I think we could get Rudy without giving up our lotto pick

  7. #107
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    This is an exceptional analysis.

    I thought that they could let Mayo walk which might solve some of the financial troubles but as you've said the number that they are looking at is calculated before qualifying offer for Mayo is factored in.

    Tough call. If I could move Randolph instead of Gay I would do it. I love Z-Bo but I think as long as they have GAsol they are in good shape underneath the boards and maybe you let Arthur, Speights and Cunningham show you if the have game. As much angst as Gay might create in the Memphis fan base he's still the player the coach is looking to in crunch time which says something.

    As for the Raps, I don't like it. Not because I don't think Gay is a solid player, but it would be indicating that they feel there is no need to further rebuilding and Gay will only make this team a mid-level team and your financial "flexibility" is now gone. If Andrea is part of the deal I would be more inclined to do it because you would have a real primary scoring option, but Memphis would not want to take back the salary.

    Are we looking for a few years of 7 or 8th seed playoff runs or are we trynig to build something meaningful and long lasting? Colangelo has NO plan. Never did and never will It changes year to year depending on his mood and even if they do make a trade for Gay we will never see a consistent winner in this city until a GM has the patience to try and build a proper foundation and work on acquiring young talent that can grow together.

    Colangelo is not the man for that job. His ego and job status won't allow him to think this way.
    Thanks for the compliment.

    Regarding Memphis, with Randolph the issue becomes who will take him on with his personal and injury trouble in addition to his large contract. And if a team was willing to take him on, what would they give up? Gay returns more assets, in my opinion. The other issue is who with financial flexibility takes on Randolph? I think Toronto and Sacramento can be ruled out. After July 1st I'm sure things open up but I'm struggling to think of a team. Then there is the issue of the fan base - Randolph seems to be beloved in Memphis.

    Regarding Toronto, I am struggling to think of a better player possibly available than Gay and he is just turning 26 in August. People talk about Batum but he is restricted. I broke the numbers down in another thread but the jist of it is after this summer, the Raptors have no financial flexibility moving forward without significant deals. Even if Jose walks, they have $3M in cap space next summer for free agents. Building through the draft is certainly an option but it is not a guarantee. This is the 4th lottery pick in 4 years and where are the Raptors?

    As for Colangelo, I think he has a plan. Yes it might change but better to be dynamic than static. The circumstances with the new CBA has changed. 2 wins separated the Raptors from an 8 pick and a possible top 4-5 pick. JV appears to be a franchise centre - time will tell. Bargnani - well Bargnani is Bargnani but he certainly offers more promise than a year ago. Throw Gay in the mix. DeMar struggles as the focal point but appears to be a solid 3rd option. There are role players in place at PF, SF, and C (if Gay is resigned). There are exceptions in play that could yield solid contributors - especially considering the Raptors needs and the players available this year. I do not view acquiring Gay as a singular move.

    I do respect your view on Colangelo. The homerun swings that have been strikeouts over the years certainly add credibility to your doubt and lack of faith. Personally, I do have faith in Colangelo but I have more faith in Casey. I think Colangelo hit a homerun hiring Casey. I think better days are dead set ahead namely because for the first time in a long time the right head coach is in place. This is all just my opinion though and it shouldn't be taken as anything more - hopefully no one does. Time will certainly tell!

  8. #108
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    Would you guys prefer we draft PJ3 or trade for Rudy?

    I don't know if this has been discussed here or not and I can't be arsed to read all 6 pages on this thread

    PJ3 has a higher ceiling but it's still potential anyways, no guarantee that he'll be a star or a bust. So the process of rebuilding is slower and is riskier.

    Rudy Gay commands a hefty amount of money for contract and doesn't look like he'll improve significantly anymore, or even worse, maybe he's bumped into his ceiling. And we have to give up more for him, probably including our draft pick. But he is undoubtedly a major upgrade from anything we have at 3 right now.

    I'm leaning towards PJ3. Would love to hear out some of your thoughts
    Last edited by flamingtimbits; Wed Jun 6th, 2012 at 03:24 AM.

  9. #109
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote flamingtimbits wrote: View Post
    Would you guys prefer we draft PJ3 or trade for Rudy?

    I don't know if this has been discussed here or not and I can't be arsed to read all 6 pages on this thread

    PJ3 has a higher ceiling but it's still potential anyways, no guarantee that he'll be a star or a bust. So the process of rebuilding is slower and is riskier.

    Rudy Gay commands a hefty amount of money for contract and doesn't look like he'll improve significantly anymore, or even worse, maybe he's bumped into his ceiling. And we have to give up more for him, probably including our draft pick. But he is undoubtedly a major upgrade from anything we have at 3 right now.

    I'm leaning towards PJ3. Would to hear out some of your thoughts
    gay because he is a known commodity that is ready to contribute right now and makes our team instantly better.

  10. #110
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    I can see where you are coming from. But, here are somethings that you would be so kind as to consider;

    -it depends on how long you think this rebuilding process should be and where you belive we are in the rebuilding process.

    - Think about the pressure Colangelo is under. Now, he's heading into year three of a popularly believed 5 year rebuilding process. With optimism probably the best thing going for the team.

    - Rudy Gay, okay, lets say he only brings us to mediocrity; 1. Is that not something better than what we have now?
    2. Is that not moving forward in the rebuilding procees?
    3. Is Gay going to be the only piece added through trade or free agency? 4. Is there not a whole lot of potential improvement from the guys already on this roster including Val?

    - if the flexibility is gone financially. Does that not leave trade and draft?

    -What is the right roster to grow together and how de we get that roster?

    -aren't we passed rebuilding and into building?

    - name me a player we could acquire better than gay possibly on the open market that would make us better than mediocre and less to give up than for gay?

    It seems to me you are thinking were just gonna run into another bosh era. I dont think that is the case. I'm not quite sure what you are looking for, it seems like you are just expecting for the raps to magically fall into a gold mine.
    I understand your argument. The only way I believe we can build a solid team is through the draft.
    Talent is essential but you better have at least one exceptional player to compete.
    Gay is a good player don't get me wrong however Gay and JV (we'll have to see how good he becomes) and the
    rest of the other current roster is not rebuilding as your ability to add more talent will be hampered.

    I don't mind the losing over the next 3 years to try and accumulate more assets and eventually spend the money
    under the cap when you actually have a core with good to great potential. I don't feel this team would be there,
    or could get there with Gay on this team. Gay helps but he should be a solid number 2 on a contending team.
    All of this talk regarding him could be irrelevant anyway s we do not know if he is available regardless.

    I'd rather take my chances going the route of the draft. The OKC's(Durrant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden), Minnesota's(Love, Rubio, Williams) Sacramento's (Cousins, Evans, Thomas), Memphis(Gay, Conley, Gasol, Mayo), Portland(Aldridge, Batum, 2 lottery picks in this draft) are examples of the approach and route I believe we should take. Yes not all those teams are winners but they have young talent that with solid veterans could compete season after season

  11. #111
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I dunno I think we could get Rudy without giving up our lotto pick
    how? by trading all of our promising players? whats the point of that, then we'll be stuck with rudy gay with no one around him but scrubs

  12. #112
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Thanks for the compliment.

    Regarding Memphis, with Randolph the issue becomes who will take him on with his personal and injury trouble in addition to his large contract. And if a team was willing to take him on, what would they give up? Gay returns more assets, in my opinion. The other issue is who with financial flexibility takes on Randolph? I think Toronto and Sacramento can be ruled out. After July 1st I'm sure things open up but I'm struggling to think of a team. Then there is the issue of the fan base - Randolph seems to be beloved in Memphis.

    Regarding Toronto, I am struggling to think of a better player possibly available than Gay and he is just turning 26 in August. People talk about Batum but he is restricted. I broke the numbers down in another thread but the jist of it is after this summer, the Raptors have no financial flexibility moving forward without significant deals. Even if Jose walks, they have $3M in cap space next summer for free agents. Building through the draft is certainly an option but it is not a guarantee. This is the 4th lottery pick in 4 years and where are the Raptors?

    As for Colangelo, I think he has a plan. Yes it might change but better to be dynamic than static. The circumstances with the new CBA has changed. 2 wins separated the Raptors from an 8 pick and a possible top 4-5 pick. JV appears to be a franchise centre - time will tell. Bargnani - well Bargnani is Bargnani but he certainly offers more promise than a year ago. Throw Gay in the mix. DeMar struggles as the focal point but appears to be a solid 3rd option. There are role players in place at PF, SF, and C (if Gay is resigned). There are exceptions in play that could yield solid contributors - especially considering the Raptors needs and the players available this year. I do not view acquiring Gay as a singular move.

    I do respect your view on Colangelo. The homerun swings that have been strikeouts over the years certainly add credibility to your doubt and lack of faith. Personally, I do have faith in Colangelo but I have more faith in Casey. I think Colangelo hit a homerun hiring Casey. I think better days are dead set ahead namely because for the first time in a long time the right head coach is in place. This is all just my opinion though and it shouldn't be taken as anything more - hopefully no one does. Time will certainly tell!
    I agree with your assessment on Casey. Start drafting players that fit his system.

    Sometimes there must be extended dark before the dawn. lol

    Colangelo has a subpar track record in hitting homerun's so take it slow even though his job might be on the line.
    Draft, let the cap space roll over. I'd have 2 rookies (JV and draft pick) in the starting 5 next year. The problem I've had with
    BC's lottery picks is I don't think they deserved or earned their minutes consistently. Even taking that into consideration the draft is a better option going forward imho.

  13. #113
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post

    I don't mind the losing over the next 3 years to try and accumulate more assets and eventually spend the money
    under the cap when you actually have a core with good to great potential. I don't feel this team would be there,
    or could get there with Gay on this team. Gay helps but he should be a solid number 2 on a contending team.
    All of this talk regarding him could be irrelevant anyway s we do not know if he is available regardless.

    I'd rather take my chances going the route of the draft. The OKC's(Durrant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden), Minnesota's(Love, Rubio, Williams) Sacramento's (Cousins, Evans, Thomas), Memphis(Gay, Conley, Gasol, Mayo), Portland(Aldridge, Batum, 2 lottery picks in this draft) are examples of the approach and route I believe we should take. Yes not all those teams are winners but they have young talent that with solid veterans could compete season after season
    i do mind losing for another 3 years. okc got so shit lucky it's not funny. you can add chicago to your list as they jumped from 9 to 1 to get rose, so built through the draft. sacremento is a mess. memphis got picks in the gasol trade and didn't draft randolf who brought about the biggest change to the team. portland is funny as they drafted oden and roy and got lucky with batum being a late pick who has proven as much as derozan in this league. even minnesota took shit for their draft history.

    the time to make a move is now. i don't understand the whole #1 on the team has to be the best scorer or even the best at everything. only a select few teams get a kobe or duncan. and in that aspect we had a #1 in carter years ago and that brought about the dark times for this franchise. what we need are solid players who play a system and believe in each other. rudy gay along with bargnani and derozan have the scoring for this team done. around them they need shooters, rebounders and hustlers to move forward. you give it a try and if it doesn't work you start again.

    to continuously put off going for it is ridiculous. you waste years of these players careers and years of the fans time.

  14. #114
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    how? by trading all of our promising players? whats the point of that, then we'll be stuck with rudy gay with no one around him but scrubs
    Promising players eh

  15. #115
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    I understand your argument. The only way I believe we can build a solid team is through the draft.
    Talent is essential but you better have at least one exceptional player to compete.
    Gay is a good player don't get me wrong however Gay and JV (we'll have to see how good he becomes) and the
    rest of the other current roster is not rebuilding as your ability to add more talent will be hampered.

    I don't mind the losing over the next 3 years to try and accumulate more assets and eventually spend the money
    under the cap when you actually have a core with good to great potential. I don't feel this team would be there,
    or could get there with Gay on this team. Gay helps but he should be a solid number 2 on a contending team.
    All of this talk regarding him could be irrelevant anyway s we do not know if he is available regardless.

    I'd rather take my chances going the route of the draft. The OKC's(Durrant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden), Minnesota's(Love, Rubio, Williams) Sacramento's (Cousins, Evans, Thomas), Memphis(Gay, Conley, Gasol, Mayo), Portland(Aldridge, Batum, 2 lottery picks in this draft) are examples of the approach and route I believe we should take. Yes not all those teams are winners but they have young talent that with solid veterans could compete season after season
    Ok, but, I don't think we are going to be any worse than we are now.

    How many guys potentially better than Gay are we drafting with the 8th overall pick.

    You typed that not all Are winners. But, have good young talent.

    Valanciunas, Derozan, Davis.

    19,22,24 or something around those ages.

    You have to take some risks before you get anywhere. All those teams have.

  16. #116
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    gay because he is a known commodity that is ready to contribute right now and makes our team instantly better.
    I'm not jumping on the Rudy Gay bandwagon just yet. But if they decide to pull it off, I hope they have other plans in mind to supplement this. Cus I think just him alone won't do us no good. We'll be stuck in the #6-#10 seeding, leaving us with a bad pick and no shot at being the champs. If they can somehow snatch a good long term PG and some good pieces off the bench, then I'm in.

    Kyle Lowry/Jerryd Bayless
    DeMar Derozan/Ray Allen
    Rudy Gay/Jeff Green
    Andrea Bargnani/Ed Davis
    Jonas Valanciunas/Omer Asik

    Damn that looks good! Well one can only dream..

    Imagine if the Raps win the finals, millions of people in the states will be like, "what in the world is going on, a canadian team lifting the trophy?"

  17. #117
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    Quote flamingtimbits wrote: View Post
    Kyle Lowry/Jerryd Bayless
    DeMar Derozan/Ray Allen
    Rudy Gay/Jeff Green
    Andrea Bargnani/Ed Davis
    Jonas Valanciunas/Omer Asik

    Damn that looks good! Well one can only dream..
    Yeah, unfortunately, it's only dream. Somehow you managed to trade:

    Jose, Kleiza, JJ, Amir, Ed, Forbes, #8, #37, #54 picks

    to

    Gay, Lowry, Jeff Green, Ray Allen and Asik

    Congratulations! I announce you as GM of the year!
    (Sorry for poor English )

  18. #118
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    ...I don't mind the losing over the next 3 years to try and accumulate more assets and eventually spend the money under the cap when you actually have a core with good to great potential. ..
    If the Raps lose enough for the next three years to get significant draft picks:

    1. Colangelo is gone
    2. Attendance at the games will be worse
    3. Even TV fans like yourself won't bother watching, so ad revenue will be down
    4. There is no guarantee that the picks will be worthwhile. See how many franchise altering picks happen every year.
    5. You will embed a losing mentality into the team and it's reputation. What good free agents will you be able to attract?
    6. Casey will leave in disgust.
    7. The leagues penalty luxury tax will be far worse, precluding the ability to spend money.

    The time is now. If not Gay, then someone else of similar or better calibre. And there aren't a lot available that would give the Raps the same options and flexibility.

  19. #119
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i do mind losing for another 3 years. okc got so shit lucky it's not funny. you can add chicago to your list as they jumped from 9 to 1 to get rose, so built through the draft. sacremento is a mess. memphis got picks in the gasol trade and didn't draft randolf who brought about the biggest change to the team. portland is funny as they drafted oden and roy and got lucky with batum being a late pick who has proven as much as derozan in this league. even minnesota took shit for their draft history.

    the time to make a move is now. i don't understand the whole #1 on the team has to be the best scorer or even the best at everything. only a select few teams get a kobe or duncan. and in that aspect we had a #1 in carter years ago and that brought about the dark times for this franchise. what we need are solid players who play a system and believe in each other. rudy gay along with bargnani and derozan have the scoring for this team done. around them they need shooters, rebounders and hustlers to move forward. you give it a try and if it doesn't work you start again.

    to continuously put off going for it is ridiculous. you waste years of these players careers and years of the fans time.
    Carter brought about a dark time becuase he stopped playing hard. No one was saying that the years previous to that. In fact, many throughout the league thought we were going to be a consistently good team. The Raps team that had Carter and McGrady, even Kobe said he thought it was going to be Lakers vs. Raptors for years to come.

    You can ache for the team that plays together mantra, but unless that team is talented there is a low ceiling of success and I'm not the type of fan that is happy with being the best of the bottom feeders. A core of Gay, Bargnani and DeRozan is a team I am not enthusiastic about. It's not a team going anywhere, longterm.

    I'm not concerned with wasting the years of players who aren't all-star type talents or game changers that will help you win consistently. Maybe Gay has some ability in this regard, but so far Bargnani and Derozan have only shown they can put up average offensive numbers, below average defensive skill on a lottery team. There's nothing to get excited about with that.

  20. #120
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Carter brought about a dark time becuase he stopped playing hard. No one was saying that the years previous to that. In fact, many throughout the league thought we were going to be a consistently good team. The Raps team that had Carter and McGrady, even Kobe said he thought it was going to be Lakers vs. Raptors for years to come.

    You can ache for the team that plays together mantra, but unless that team is talented there is a low ceiling of success and I'm not the type of fan that is happy with being the best of the bottom feeders. A core of Gay, Bargnani and DeRozan is a team I am not enthusiastic about. It's not a team going anywhere, longterm.

    I'm not concerned with wasting the years of players who aren't all-star type talents or game changers that will help you win consistently. Maybe Gay has some ability in this regard, but so far Bargnani and Derozan have only shown they can put up average offensive numbers, below average defensive skill on a lottery team. There's nothing to get excited about with that.
    that's right. no one was saying anything bad about carter but then the wheels fell off. i don't want to be dependent on anyone player like that again. i think that bargs has elite offensive abilities.

    i also don't care about wasting players careers, but they do. no one is going to want to stay here or try hard when they are here if it is always "we just need to wait for a player who can play". i would much rather take a shot with what we have and then blow it up again later. you don't know until you try.

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