View Poll Results: What is your #1 concern with trading for Rudy Gay?

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  • His fit with the Raptors

    3 8.33%
  • His talent and ability (or lack thereof)

    1 2.78%
  • His contract

    8 22.22%
  • Assets required to get him

    24 66.67%
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Thread: The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

  1. #121
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i also don't care about wasting players careers, but they do. no one is going to want to stay here or try hard when they are here if it is always "we just need to wait for a player who can play". i would much rather take a shot with what we have and then blow it up again later. you don't know until you try.
    +1

    I am probably out to lunch but near term (1-2) and long term (3-6 years) I can see a very competitive team in Toronto with a couple of big trades and solid signings this summer.

    Time will tell but I can see numerous possibilities and opportunities. Is it July yet?

  2. #122
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    +1

    I am probably out to lunch but near term (1-2) and long term (3-6 years) I can see a very competitive team in Toronto with a couple of big trades and solid signings this summer.

    Time will tell but I can see numerous possibilities and opportunities. Is it July yet?
    I'm hoping there's activity before July 1st
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. #123
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'm hoping there's activity before July 1st
    Oh yes, me too.

    I say, "Is it July yet?" because we won't know all of what happens with the infamous cap space, lottery pick, trades, and main free agent signings.

  4. #124
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    Sign me up. As low risk as taking on a max contract can be...As is, you are getting an elite wing player who still has room to improve. Gay and Demar on the break, call it lob city north

  5. #125
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    Toronto with R.Gay, playoff bound with hope
    Toronto without R.Gay, I'm checking out the 2013 draft lottery rankings in December just like I did this year......

    I vote Rudy

  6. #126
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    I just wet myself thinking about a JV block to a Rudy Gay lob on the other end

  7. #127
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I keep going back and forth on whether I would do a Mayo trade...

    IF you could swing a deal for JJ or Kleiza + Amir or Ed Davis + No 8 and/or future protected first round pick/traded picks, I think I would do with it

    a line up of


    pretty much any pg pairing (Bayless?)
    Derozan/???(Bayless again?)
    Gay/Kleiza or JJ
    Bargs/Amir or Davis
    Valunciunas/???

    I think would have a nice balance, especially if we could convince memphis to take Kleiza instead of JJ. I think should be relatively easy and cheap to find backups at the C spot (Gray?) and shooting guard (Bayless?)

    If we include Derozan, I'm worried that we don't have the picks or flexibility to then address the huge hole we have at SG. So we've essentially traded the hole we had a SF for the hole we would then have a SG. I haven't done research into the nuts and bolts of how that kind of trade would effect our financial flexibility, (and i'd appreciate it if someone would be happy enough to provide an argument that we could include Derozan and still address the SG spot) When I did an indepth analysis at the end of the 2010 season, I was surprised at how high up on the Gay appeared (this included advanced metrics) but at the same time his is getting basically MAX money. I'd say his contract is comparable to bargs in terms of value, which could be good, bad, or about right.

    It seems like I'm flip flopping even is I attempt to right a coherent post.

    I guess to sum it up, I hope that BC pursues a trade for Gay, because I do think that there is the potential to get him without giving up too many assets, however, I just hope that BC doesn't give up too much to acquire him, making it a lateral trade (much like the O'meal, Marion, and Turkoglu trades ended up being)
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  8. #128
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    I keep going back and forth on whether I would do a Mayo trade...

    IF you could swing a deal for JJ or Kleiza + Amir or Ed Davis + No 8 and/or future protected first round pick/traded picks, I think I would do with it

    a line up of


    pretty much any pg pairing (Bayless?)
    Derozan/???(Bayless again?)
    Gay/Kleiza or JJ
    Bargs/Amir or Davis
    Valunciunas/???

    I think would have a nice balance, especially if we could convince memphis to take Kleiza instead of JJ. I think should be relatively easy and cheap to find backups at the C spot (Gray?) and shooting guard (Bayless?)

    If we include Derozan, I'm worried that we don't have the picks or flexibility to then address the huge hole we have at SG. So we've essentially traded the hole we had a SF for the hole we would then have a SG. I haven't done research into the nuts and bolts of how that kind of trade would effect our financial flexibility, (and i'd appreciate it if someone would be happy enough to provide an argument that we could include Derozan and still address the SG spot) When I did an indepth analysis at the end of the 2010 season, I was surprised at how high up on the Gay appeared (this included advanced metrics) but at the same time his is getting basically MAX money. I'd say his contract is comparable to bargs in terms of value, which could be good, bad, or about right.

    It seems like I'm flip flopping even is I attempt to right a coherent post.

    I guess to sum it up, I hope that BC pursues a trade for Gay, because I do think that there is the potential to get him without giving up too many assets, however, I just hope that BC doesn't give up too much to acquire him, making it a lateral trade (much like the O'meal, Marion, and Turkoglu trades ended up being)
    I was really high on Mayo, but I get the feeling Memphis would rather trade Gay and then spread around the $16.4M he's due to make next season ($5-7M of it used to give Mayo a raise). I think Toronto is in a unique position to potentially give Memphis a high lottery pick (#8) AND young/cheap starting talent (DeRozan) AND young/cheap rotation depth (JJ and Davis/Amir) AND significant cap space, in return for Gay (and hopefully #25 pick too).

    From Toronto's perspective:
    - Gay is a huge upgrade over JJ at starting SF
    - Davis/Amir is essentially dumping a 3rd string PF and clearing up the logjam at backup PF
    - DeRozan can be replaced via draft/free agency/additional trade
    - downgrading #8 to #25 could still net a good player (especially if other assets are used to try and move up from #25)
    - a DD/JJ/Davis - Gay trade would still leave Toronto with about $4M in cap space, as well as their exceptions (MLE & vet) and the Barbosa TPE --> lots of options to replace DeRozan and further improve the roster

  9. #129
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was really high on Mayo, but I get the feeling Memphis would rather trade Gay and then spread around the $16.4M he's due to make next season ($5-7M of it used to give Mayo a raise). I think Toronto is in a unique position to potentially give Memphis a high lottery pick (#8) AND young/cheap starting talent (DeRozan) AND young/cheap rotation depth (JJ and Davis/Amir) AND significant cap space, in return for Gay (and hopefully #25 pick too).

    From Toronto's perspective:
    - Gay is a huge upgrade over JJ at starting SF
    - Davis/Amir is essentially dumping a 3rd string PF and clearing up the logjam at backup PF
    - DeRozan can be replaced via draft/free agency/additional trade
    - downgrading #8 to #25 could still net a good player (especially if other assets are used to try and move up from #25)
    - a DD/JJ/Davis - Gay trade would still leave Toronto with about $4M in cap space, as well as their exceptions (MLE & vet) and the Barbosa TPE --> lots of options to replace DeRozan and further improve the roster
    If DeRozan is dealt to Memphis.. I'd try and get Chandler from Denver as our starting SG. Either him or Mathews from Portland. I think those are two realistic SG's that we could get via trade.

  10. #130
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    If DeRozan is dealt to Memphis.. I'd try and get Chandler from Denver as our starting SG. Either him or Mathews from Portland. I think those are two realistic SG's that we could get via trade.
    That would be awesome - especially Matthews.

  11. #131
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Via Twitter.coM:


    Tim Chisholm Tim Chisholm ‏@timpchisholm

    Chad Ford just said via chat Raps looking to package Ed, pick and vet (Jose or Bargs) for Gay. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt the Bargs bit and…

    Tim Chisholm ‏@timpchisholm

    …MEM wants cap space in a Gay deal. I think Gay is their best chance at a top-flight SF, will be interesting to see if they can nab him.

  12. #132
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Encouraging to hear. I think that deep down, we all know that Davis and Calderon are as good as gone (even if we're not going after Gay). But if we include our pick, I hope there's an opportunity to pick up another 1st rounder.

    Lastly, I wonder how/where Ford would get this information...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  13. #133
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Here is the actual Q/A from Ford:
    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/44099

    Rhett (Toronto)

    You still have Dion Waiters going to the Raptors, Chad. But all we keep hearing up here is that the Raptors are likely to move the pick. Any idea who would be available for the 8th pick in the draft?

    Chad Ford
    (1:15 PM)

    I agree that the Raptors are looking to move the pick. They've been trying to package it with another young player like Ed Davis and a vet (Bargnani or Calderon). I think they want a big time player on the wing so that they can lure Steve Nash this summer. The guy most people in the league believe they are after via trade is Rudy Gay. If they stay at 8, they want a player who can get to the basket. Thus ... Waiters at 8.

    I like the idea of luring Nash by nabbing Gay.. would make a pretty formidable line up. Not sure how Bargs/Calderon fit in Memphis though, especially if Memphis wants cap space.

  14. #134
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Nash, Demar, Gay, Bargs and JV.

    Bayless, Anderson, Kleiza, Amir, Gray

    JJ plays based on matchups

    I'd be happy to watch that roster grow together for a couple of years

  15. #135
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Nash, Demar, Gay, Bargs and JV.

    Bayless, Anderson, Kleiza, Amir, Gray

    JJ plays based on matchups

    I'd be happy to watch that roster grow together for a couple of years
    Hopefully Scott Machado is available with one of our 2nd round picks as our [potential] PG of the future.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #136
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Hopefully Scott Machado is available with one of our 2nd round picks as our [potential] PG of the future.
    +1

    My gut tells me he's going to be big!

  17. #137
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Ok, but, I don't think we are going to be any worse than we are now.

    How many guys potentially better than Gay are we drafting with the 8th overall pick.

    You typed that not all Are winners. But, have good young talent.

    Valanciunas, Derozan, Davis.

    19,22,24 or something around those ages.

    You have to take some risks before you get anywhere. All those teams have.
    I agree with you regarding the 8th pick, but you don't know that for sure, and what if you get a plyer that is marginally underneath Gay in regards to production and performance and fits Casey's system and is a player he has the chance to mould from day 1? Considering one is on a rookie deal and the other is owed big money over the next 3-4 years I think we take the second option.

    JV, DeRozan, Davis. All young players, all with potential, however the jury is out on all of them. If any of them had of shown immediate ability they would be cornerstones instead of possible trade bait, but right now outside of JV (who won't be going anywhere but we don't know how good he will be yet as much as we would all like him to be great) Davis and Derozan have much to prove.

  18. #138
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    If the Raps lose enough for the next three years to get significant draft picks:

    1. Colangelo is gone
    2. Attendance at the games will be worse
    3. Even TV fans like yourself won't bother watching, so ad revenue will be down
    4. There is no guarantee that the picks will be worthwhile. See how many franchise altering picks happen every year.
    5. You will embed a losing mentality into the team and it's reputation. What good free agents will you be able to attract?
    6. Casey will leave in disgust.
    7. The leagues penalty luxury tax will be far worse, precluding the ability to spend money.

    The time is now. If not Gay, then someone else of similar or better calibre. And there aren't a lot available that would give the Raps the same options and flexibility.
    1. Good riddance. It certainly took long enough!
    2. Maybe, but Raps have traditionally had loyal fan base and good attendance no matter how bad the team.
    3. I don't watch regularly now and thats only because I see no plan. I'd buy into the slow rebuilding if I'm seeing good young players coming in and developing the right way.
    4. Agreed, but there are no guarantees in life period (with trades or FA sigings for that matter). I do know that when you hit on a draft pick it can change your franchsie dramatically overnight. That what everyone is hoping with JV no?
    5. Losing mentality can be changed at anytime through winning. When you have a good enough team that can be altered because players know they are going to win and have the talent to do so night in and night out We've never been able to atract good FA's anyway. Most teams outside of NY and LA have this issue.
    6. We don't know what Casey will do. Have you any idea how long it took him to get another shot coaching again with this job?
    7. Easier to manage players and decisions on rookie deals. 7 years to plan appropriately.

    I agree the time is now. It's time to admit the talent base is weak and you need to re-tool through the draft and low salary acquisitions.

  19. #139
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    that's right. no one was saying anything bad about carter but then the wheels fell off. i don't want to be dependent on anyone player like that again. i think that bargs has elite offensive abilities.

    i also don't care about wasting players careers, but they do. no one is going to want to stay here or try hard when they are here if it is always "we just need to wait for a player who can play". i would much rather take a shot with what we have and then blow it up again later. you don't know until you try.
    The wheels fell off because Grunwald went the route of overpaying the JYD's of the world to stay instead of replenishing the talent through the draft.

    Other teams have taken this approach (drafting) so why should we be worried about it here? We have a good coach, great city and fanbase. We just have no patience.

  20. #140
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Here is the actual Q/A from Ford:
    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/44099




    I like the idea of luring Nash by nabbing Gay.. would make a pretty formidable line up. Not sure how Bargs/Calderon fit in Memphis though, especially if Memphis wants cap space.
    Thanks for getting the actual quote. I had to step out for an hour or so and was in a rush when it popped up on Twitter.

    Kleiza and Amir are also vets.

    Kleiza is my favourite current Raptor and I'd hate for him to go but if it brought back Gay, I'll pack his bags.

    There is also the consideration of another team(s) coming in to play.

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