View Poll Results: Who should the Raptors target as their SF next season?

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  • Trade for Rudy Gay

    32 53.33%
  • Try and sign Nicolas Batum

    15 25.00%
  • Draft a SF with the 8th pick like PJ3 or TJones

    4 6.67%
  • Keep JJ and Kleiza for another year

    5 8.33%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Who should the Raptors target as their SF next season?: Raps eye AI/Gay (36)

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote LeeZ wrote: View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree, although you made a shameful omission, Themasao: you forgot about all the travelling calls! Allow me to readjust your figures: 40% get swatted away, 50% he gets called for not DRAGGING his pivot foot so much as MOVING IT TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, 5% of the time he misses the shot and...and let's give the guy some love, here...5% of the time he makes the shot.
    hahaha, touchay good sir. I like your breakdown much better. I'm actually surprised he doesn't get called for travelling on jumpshots too, he sort of pro hops into his shot. It's hard to describe, but in any other league, it'd be a travel every time.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    I love the way ford mentions this in a chat today (+/- stein's quote) and all of a sudden it's a newsworthy story running across the bottom banner of sportsnet. So many sources are carrying the story that it makes it seem so much more plausible even though no new information has been brought to the table. How many days til July 1st again?
    LMAO! I was thinking the EXACT same thing this morning. This story is picking up a lot of steam based on nothing. We're setting ourselves up for a ginormous letdown.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Honestly I wouldn't be unhappy rolling with JJ next year.

    However AI, Gay, or Granger are significant upgrades, adding experience and skill. If we can get them by trading the pick and taking on salary rather than giving up too much talent I would be all for it.

    Moving DD to the 3 and drafting a SG is also something that can be considered if DD can bulk up a bit. Seems like decent SG's can be had in this draft.

    If given the choice I would go with AI/Gay/Granger scenario.

  4. #44
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Honestly I wouldn't be unhappy rolling with JJ next year.

    However AI, Gay, or Granger are significant upgrades, adding experience and skill. If we can get them by trading the pick and taking on salary rather than giving up too much talent I would be all for it.

    Moving DD to the 3 and drafting a SG is also something that can be considered if DD can bulk up a bit. Seems like decent SG's can be had in this draft.

    If given the choice I would go with AI/Gay/Granger scenario.


    I actually agree with that. I will be really disappointed if we don't make a big move, but at the same time, having JJ on the team and seeing how he'll improve will be interesting. he has a really unique skill set. If you draft Lamb or Waiters, one of them plus DD and JJ will be competing for the 2 starting spots (assuming we can move DD to 3). It might not be so bad....

    Of course, Rudy Gay would be a much better alternative

  5. #45
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Yup.. I'm thinking Wilson Chandler would be a guy we could immediately go after with that TPE and/or a guy like Kleiza (who Denver may want to get back). I really think Denver only signed Chandler so they can flip him for additional assets. We just did not have the proper assets last year to make a deal, now we do.
    Much better option IMO. Trading DD, JJ + to get Gay THEN hoping to plug a hole at SG with TPE? Why? You lost most of your assets and not a lot in terms of SG.
    I am OK with getting R Gay (and his overpriced contract) as long as it is only 2 of DD, Davis & 8 (Plus Calderon or Kleiza or Amir or JJ).
    Remember Memphis is desperate (Charlotte deal -2nd for Gay is not all. At least 1 of Thomas or Diop MUST go the other way; Golden state -better deal BUT either of Biedrins or R Jeff has to be included, otherwise salaries do not match; Kings is the even better for Memphis, but do Kings want a $54 mil contract-Gay's? Probably not).
    If we were desperate for a SF (Gay) -OK, but there are options: Batum, AK47, W Chandler. I am not even sure SF is our most gaping hole (JJ is very solid on D, Kleiza should finally be healthy).

  6. #46
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    Quote LeeZ wrote: View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree, although you made a shameful omission, Themasao: you forgot about all the travelling calls! Allow me to readjust your figures: 40% get swatted away, 50% he gets called for not DRAGGING his pivot foot so much as MOVING IT TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, 5% of the time he misses the shot and...and let's give the guy some love, here...5% of the time he makes the shot.
    Then HTF does he average about the same per 36 mins as Iggy? (at 1/3 of money).

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    The ONLY reason Memphis trades Gay is for cap relief. If they don't care about the $$$, as Heisley is trying to suggest, then they don't trade him. So if what they really want is cap relief, then Toronto needs to offer them that without giving up too much else.

    Ed Davis has to be the cornerstone piece from Memphis' perspective - young and has potential, and fills a PF spot assuming they can't/don't re-sign Speights and/or Arthur. Or the #8 could be the cornerstone instead of Davis. But I don't think Toronto starts with both these in the package. Toronto also should want to send out as much salary as possible so they still have cap space after July 1. I'd try to throw in Kleiza. Davis+Kleiza alone give Memphis about 8.5M relief from Gay's 15M contract, getting them under the tax this year -- and almost down to the cap -- and allowing them to re-sign Mayo and one of the above PFs if that's what they want to do this summer.

    They'll want the #8, for sure, but I think Colangelo holds out on that to the end, and if it's included, maybe demands a sign-and-trade Mayo in return, allowing Toronto to play with Derozan in trade scenarios.

    The money situation for Toronto really does put BC in the driver's seat for most trade options, and I think people are being a little too generous.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    The ONLY reason Memphis trades Gay is for cap relief. If they don't care about the $$$, as Heisley is trying to suggest, then they don't trade him. So if what they really want is cap relief, then Toronto needs to offer them that without giving up too much else.

    Ed Davis has to be the cornerstone piece from Memphis' perspective - young and has potential, and fills a PF spot assuming they can't/don't re-sign Speights and/or Arthur. Or the #8 could be the cornerstone instead of Davis. But I don't think Toronto starts with both these in the package. Toronto also should want to send out as much salary as possible so they still have cap space after July 1. I'd try to throw in Kleiza. Davis+Kleiza alone give Memphis about 8.5M relief from Gay's 15M contract, getting them under the tax this year -- and almost down to the cap -- and allowing them to re-sign Mayo and one of the above PFs if that's what they want to do this summer.

    They'll want the #8, for sure, but I think Colangelo holds out on that to the end, and if it's included, maybe demands a sign-and-trade Mayo in return, allowing Toronto to play with Derozan in trade scenarios.

    The money situation for Toronto really does put BC in the driver's seat for most trade options, and I think people are being a little too generous.
    do you think it'll happen though? i want to be able to use this wallpaper:


  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    do you think it'll happen though? i want to be able to use this wallpaper:

    LOL - I love the writing across the bottom.

  10. #50
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    do you think it'll happen though? i want to be able to use this wallpaper:

    :O ...!!!!

    Where did you get that?? That looks awesome!

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    :O ...!!!!

    Where did you get that?? That looks awesome!
    here http://www.turbozone.ca/wallpapers/hd-wallpapers/

    "The unofficial artist of the Toronto Raptors"

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    here http://www.turbozone.ca/wallpapers/hd-wallpapers/

    "The unofficial artist of the Toronto Raptors"
    This is my favourite done by that site.


  13. #53
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    The ONLY reason Memphis trades Gay is for cap relief. If they don't care about the $$$, as Heisley is trying to suggest, then they don't trade him. So if what they really want is cap relief, then Toronto needs to offer them that without giving up too much else.

    Ed Davis has to be the cornerstone piece from Memphis' perspective - young and has potential, and fills a PF spot assuming they can't/don't re-sign Speights and/or Arthur. Or the #8 could be the cornerstone instead of Davis. But I don't think Toronto starts with both these in the package. Toronto also should want to send out as much salary as possible so they still have cap space after July 1. I'd try to throw in Kleiza. Davis+Kleiza alone give Memphis about 8.5M relief from Gay's 15M contract, getting them under the tax this year -- and almost down to the cap -- and allowing them to re-sign Mayo and one of the above PFs if that's what they want to do this summer.

    They'll want the #8, for sure, but I think Colangelo holds out on that to the end, and if it's included, maybe demands a sign-and-trade Mayo in return, allowing Toronto to play with Derozan in trade scenarios.

    The money situation for Toronto really does put BC in the driver's seat for most trade options, and I think people are being a little too generous.
    This and that Sacramento and Minnesota are possibly the only other suitors who could compete on assets going back who they can use. Sac has a higher pick and Minny the lower one with Evans and Williams resp. being the cornerstone pieces in a deal. No doubt it is poker time and I agree that BC should holdout on giving up the pick...this because Sac is unlikely to be too serious about making a deal and taking on so much salary with their ownership having money issues. Hope Stefanski has a leash on BC if they are serious...I dont want to give up the pick which is going to be a decent player I feel.

  14. #54
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    The ONLY reason Memphis trades Gay is for cap relief. If they don't care about the $$$, as Heisley is trying to suggest, then they don't trade him. So if what they really want is cap relief, then Toronto needs to offer them that without giving up too much else.

    Ed Davis has to be the cornerstone piece from Memphis' perspective - young and has potential, and fills a PF spot assuming they can't/don't re-sign Speights and/or Arthur. Or the #8 could be the cornerstone instead of Davis. But I don't think Toronto starts with both these in the package. Toronto also should want to send out as much salary as possible so they still have cap space after July 1. I'd try to throw in Kleiza. Davis+Kleiza alone give Memphis about 8.5M relief from Gay's 15M contract, getting them under the tax this year -- and almost down to the cap -- and allowing them to re-sign Mayo and one of the above PFs if that's what they want to do this summer.

    They'll want the #8, for sure, but I think Colangelo holds out on that to the end, and if it's included, maybe demands a sign-and-trade Mayo in return, allowing Toronto to play with Derozan in trade scenarios.

    The money situation for Toronto really does put BC in the driver's seat for most trade options, and I think people are being a little too generous.
    #8, Davis and JJ for Gay sounds fair to both sides. I think Toronto could add #37 and have Memphis add #25 too.

    Toronto gives up two third string players (Bargnani/Amir and Gay/Kleiza) and a lottery pick for Gay, while providing $11.1M of salary cap relief to Memphis.

    I posted that trade proposal on the Memphis fan site (www.3sob.com) and they seem to feel it is a fair trade, given their ability to re-sign Mayo, Speights and Arthur (unless Davis replaces him) and get a top-10 pick to address either their 3-pt shooting (ie: Lamb) or backup PG (ie: Lillard).

  15. #55
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    #8, Davis and JJ for Gay sounds fair to both sides. I think Toronto could add #37 and have Memphis add #25 too.

    Toronto gives up two third string players (Bargnani/Amir and Gay/Kleiza) and a lottery pick for Gay, while providing $11.1M of salary cap relief to Memphis.

    I posted that trade proposal on the Memphis fan site (www.3sob.com) and they seem to feel it is a fair trade, given their ability to re-sign Mayo, Speights and Arthur (unless Davis replaces him) and get a top-10 pick to address either their 3-pt shooting (ie: Lamb) or backup PG (ie: Lillard).
    That's pretty decent of you . Of course it's fair. I am all for being fair under normal circumstances but these really arent. As Jimmie pointed out the Grizzlies are in a bit of a pickle and leverage has everything to do with a deal. I do believe that we need Gay less than the Grizz having to create cap space. And Iam assuming the competition is thin. We are not in on the negotiations and my point really is that one doesn't start with our best offer and take it where it goes using all the background info we have on the various actors. I dont know that it was wise for BC to publicly declare the 8th to be available. Havent heard anyone else go on the record with their position on their pick even though its in play. I would of course rather sweeten the deal in players than the pick. Iam not so sure that may not be preferable to them because of their win now mode.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    #8, Davis and JJ for Gay sounds fair to both sides. I think Toronto could add #37 and have Memphis add #25 too.

    Toronto gives up two third string players (Bargnani/Amir and Gay/Kleiza) and a lottery pick for Gay, while providing $11.1M of salary cap relief to Memphis.

    I posted that trade proposal on the Memphis fan site (www.3sob.com) and they seem to feel it is a fair trade, given their ability to re-sign Mayo, Speights and Arthur (unless Davis replaces him) and get a top-10 pick to address either their 3-pt shooting (ie: Lamb) or backup PG (ie: Lillard).
    Yeah, I think that's too much. Trading isn't about getting equal value, it's about getting something you need for something you don't mind giving up. I don't think Toronto is competing with anyone for Gay in terms of what we can give back. Therefore, it's incumbent on Memphis to come up with something Toronto wants in return for taking Gay's contract off their hands, not the other way around. All Memphis can do to any Toronto offer is say "no", but then they're still stuck with Gay's contract and no money to sign their own FAs. No other team can offer them cap relief like Toronto can. Any deals from SAC or elsewhere will be worse than the worst deal BC offers.

    Davis/Kleiza is the starting point. If you need to add the 8, then you keep Davis, take their 25, and throw in Forbes or something. Again, all they can say is "no". Toronto still has all that cap flex, Davis, and the #8, and Memphis can go look for a better deal.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  17. #57
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    here http://www.turbozone.ca/wallpapers/hd-wallpapers/

    "The unofficial artist of the Toronto Raptors"
    Wow, that is some great work there.

  18. #58
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    That's pretty decent of you . Of course it's fair. I am all for being fair under normal circumstances but these really arent. As Jimmie pointed out the Grizzlies are in a bit of a pickle and leverage has everything to do with a deal. I do believe that we need Gay less than the Grizz having to create cap space. And Iam assuming the competition is thin. We are not in on the negotiations and my point really is that one doesn't start with our best offer and take it where it goes using all the background info we have on the various actors. I dont know that it was wise for BC to publicly declare the 8th to be available. Havent heard anyone else go on the record with their position on their pick even though its in play. I would of course rather sweeten the deal in players than the pick. Iam not so sure that may not be preferable to them because of their win now mode.
    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Yeah, I think that's too much. Trading isn't about getting equal value, it's about getting something you need for something you don't mind giving up. I don't think Toronto is competing with anyone for Gay in terms of what we can give back. Therefore, it's incumbent on Memphis to come up with something Toronto wants in return for taking Gay's contract off their hands, not the other way around. All Memphis can do to any Toronto offer is say "no", but then they're still stuck with Gay's contract and no money to sign their own FAs. No other team can offer them cap relief like Toronto can. Any deals from SAC or elsewhere will be worse than the worst deal BC offers.

    Davis/Kleiza is the starting point. If you need to add the 8, then you keep Davis, take their 25, and throw in Forbes or something. Again, all they can say is "no". Toronto still has all that cap flex, Davis, and the #8, and Memphis can go look for a better deal.
    I understand what you're both saying. However, I think Memphis would either let their free agents walk or would find another more willing trade partner, before agreeing to any trade with Toronto that doesn't include the #8 pick. They want financial freedom, but they aren't going to just give Gay away either. Plus, I frankly put very little value in Davis & JJ, considering they are/would both be fighting just for backup duty on a Raptors team that had added Gay (Davis VS Amir, behind Bargnani and JJ VS Kleiza, behind Gay). If Toronto can get the #25 pick back in return, I really don't think Davis & JJ & #8 & #37 is giving up too much at all. I don't know where the negotiations would begin, but I would be more than happy to have them end with that deal.

    If that deal were to go through, my next call would be to NO, about trading the #10 pick & Ariza for #56 and TPE. Then Toronto would have Gay, Ariza, #10 and #25. At #10, they could very well get whoever they were targeting at #8.

    Their lineup would look like this, prior to making any additional moves:
    C: Valanciunas, Amir
    PF: Bargnani, Kleiza
    SF: Gay, Ariza
    SG: DeRozan, Forbes
    PG: Calderon
    + #10
    + #25
    + MLE
    + Vet Exception
    + any additional trades

    That looks like a really solid lineup, especially when you add the 2 1st round picks! I also don't feel that Davis or JJ would be missed much at all, which is why I'd have no hesitation pulling the trigger on that deal with Memphis.

    * If Memphis would take Amir instead of Davis, all the better for Toronto (for unloading Amir's contract). However, I highly doubt they would, since they'd likely prefer a younger/cheaper player with a higher perceived ceiling, who opens up about $4M more cap space.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Sat Jun 9th, 2012 at 09:20 PM.

  19. #59
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I understand what you're both saying. However, I think Memphis would either let their free agents walk or would find another more willing trade partner, before agreeing to any trade with Toronto that doesn't include the #8 pick. They want financial freedom, but they aren't going to just give Gay away either. Plus, I frankly put very little value in Davis & JJ, considering they are/would both be fighting just for backup duty on a Raptors team that had added Gay (Davis VS Amir, behind Bargnani and JJ VS Kleiza, behind Gay). If Toronto can get the #25 pick back in return, I really don't think Davis & JJ & #8 & #37 is giving up too much at all. I don't know where the negotiations would begin, but I would be more than happy to have them end with that deal.

    If that deal were to go through, my next call would be to NO, about trading the #10 pick & Ariza for #56 and TPE. Then Toronto would have Gay, Ariza, #10 and #25. At #10, they could very well get whoever they were targeting at #8.

    Their lineup would look like this, prior to making any additional moves:
    C: Valanciunas, Amir
    PF: Bargnani, Kleiza
    SF: Gay, Ariza
    SG: DeRozan, Forbes
    PG: Calderon
    + #10
    + #25
    + MLE
    + Vet Exception
    + any additional trades

    That looks like a really solid lineup, especially when you add the 2 1st round picks! I also don't feel that Davis or JJ would be missed much at all, which is why I'd have no hesitation pulling the trigger on that deal with Memphis.

    * If Memphis would take Amir instead of Davis, all the better for Toronto (for unloading Amir's contract). However, I highly doubt they would, since they'd likely prefer a younger/cheaper player with a higher perceived ceiling, who opens up about $4M more cap space.
    If they let their FA walk -what is the point? Replace then with min salaried players, sneak in as 7,8 seed in playoffs & loose every year in 1st round. Remember this team (as it was) lost to No 5 seed this year.
    Their owner stated: 1. Won't pay tax; 2. Won't trade Gay. If he is honest on both account this team becomes like Atlanta in east -No flexibility & guaranteed exit in 1st round every year.
    I firmly believe Gay is gone (question is where). Among the teams discussed (GS, Kings, Orlando, Houston, Minnesota, To), only To & Minnesota can take this awfull contract, give Memphis some young guys WITHOUT sending out as much contracts.
    Memphis can expect/hope to get back some value (players, draft choices) without taking back as much in contracts. Since this will likely not be possible they'll have to settle for fraction in value (Amir & JJ?) BUT MUST incur significant $$ saving ($7-10 mil less than Gay's contract would be nice) so they can can upgrade/resign (Mayo Speights, backup PG, Arhur...)..
    With Gay on board, I would explore NO deal (Ariza & No 10 for TPE & ?).
    Houston might be another possibility: Lowrey & No 14 for No 8 & 37)? You think this is doable? With No 14 pick up Marshall or Lillard (likely gone by then). IMO Houston will hold off trading Lowrey until they "exhaust" chances of getting P Gasol.
    I omitted Ed & No 1 next year -Both can be "sweeteners in above deals.
    S&T for Bayless might net another asset.

  20. #60
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    You may not have heard....the Grizzlies have an agreement to be sold (to a very rich person). The Gay situation may not exist with the new owner...he may not mind going into luxury territory. We shall have to see.

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