Is there ever a domino that falls our way? 2 weeks before we may have a chance to take advantage of a budget conscious team, they get bought out by Cuban 2.0? Ridiculous.Bendit wrote:
Is there ever a domino that falls our way? 2 weeks before we may have a chance to take advantage of a budget conscious team, they get bought out by Cuban 2.0? Ridiculous.
If Gay is out of the running to become Toronto's next starting SF (damn billionaire) and Batum is all but guaranteed to have any offer matched, I wonder if the rumor about AI will heat up even more?
For the record, I would NOT be happy with the Raptors giving up the #8 pick for AI. I would have been for Gay, but think that's too much to giveup for AI.
I wonder though, if there is a viable opportunity for the Raps to acquire AI and still keep the #8 pick. I do like AI and see him as a significant upgrade over JJ, if Gay and Batum are not available.
Perhaps the New Orleans rumor could be combined with a trade for AI, which would allow Toronto to have its cake and eat it too, so to speak.
To New Orleans
- $6.8M TPE
- #56 pick (possibly and/or #37 pick)
To Philadelphia
- #10 pick
- Ed Davis
- James Johnson
To Toronto
- Andre Iguodala
- Trevor Ariza
TORONTO LINEUP
C: Valanciunas, Amir, Gray
PF: Bargnani, Kleiza, Amir
SF: Iguodala, Ariza, Kleiza
SG: DeRozan, ???, Iguodala, Forbes
PG: Calderon, ???, Forbes
13th Man: Uzoh
Toronto could target either a SG (ie: Beal or Lamb) or a PG (ie: Lillard) with the #8 pick.
---
If that sort of trade were to go down, I might also look at trying to flip a top-3 protected 2013 1st round pick to Houston for #14*. That way, Toronto could look to fill whichever of SG/PG they didn't fill with the #8 pick, using the #14 pick. Lamb could still be available (if Lillard was drafted @ #8), or else one of Waiters/Marshall should be available (if Beal/Lamb was drafted @ #8).
* the rumor is that if Houston is unable to use #14 & #16 to trade well into the top-10, that they might look to swap one of their picks for a 2013 1st round pick, since they don't have one of their own.
---
TORONTO LINEUP
C: Valanciunas, Amir, Gray
PF: Bargnani, Kleiza, Amir
SF: Iguodala, Ariza, Kleiza
SG: DeRozan, Lamb, Iguodala, Forbes
PG: Calderon, Lillard, Forbes
13th Man: Uzoh
That is a pretty decent looking lineup. Some veterans have been added (Iguodala & Ariza) and there is still a significant addition of excellent young talent (Valanciunas, Lamb & Lillard), including the PG-of-the-future (Lillard) that we have all been pining for.
The option of flipping Calderon for Nash still exists as well, should the Raptors look to pursue that too.
The Raptors also would still have their full MLE available, should they wish to use it. I assumed the Vet Exception would be used to re-sign Gray (or a similar veteran C) and that Uzoh would be re-signed to a minimum contract to round out the roster.
---
ESPN Trade Machine Link: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7uyswtf
- not sure why the TPE doesn't show up under New Orleans
- obviously the draft picks don't show up either
Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Jun 12th, 2012 at 06:00 PM.
I like it. ^
It must be the 13 year old in me that makes me laugh every time I read comments like that.
Green garnering plenty of interest while ex-team contends for a title
Free agency negotiations won't officially begin until July 1, but Falk said he has already had exploratory discussions with "12 to 14 teams."
He had successful surgery to repair the aneurysm on Jan. 12 and has since returned to "100 percent," according to Falk. Now, he's ready to return to the livelihood that he loves.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1y3lGqlnH
With a new owner in New Orleans and Wallace and AI on the outside of our demographics perhaps green on a short term deal may be our best bet for a SF
http://hoopshype.com/players/jeff_green.htm
I like the idea of picking up Jeff Green, It's almost like getting both Terrence Jones and whoever we select 8th overall. Plus he's still only 25 years old so he fits in with the age group though this is only if they can't manage to get Rudy Gay. Another problem with getting Green is that we would need to draft a guy that had ball handling skills at the two because with him and Demar there would be a turnover issue IMO.
Whoever told you skies the limit is looking dumb because I'm 22 and i'm moonwalking on the sun.
Fuck it! I laugh at it every time. So, I must be thirteen.
Um, guys, has anybody heard of Gerald Wallace, because he is a free agent now.
we dont want him and he dont want us
Tim Chisholm wrote an interesting article about moving Derozan to the 3, and signing courtney lee as our starting SG, then drafting another SG.
This idea has merit as courtney lee is a great defender and a very good three point shooter, both things that we need at our SG position. Also this makes it so that we retain our financial flexibility by not going all in on this off season. We also make sure that our future is secure by not giving up our draft pick. In fact I think this is a very good option for us, this is what our depth chart would look like:
PG: Calderon/Bayless/Uzoh
SG: Lee/Lamb/Anderson
SF: Derozan/Johnson/Kleiza
PF: Bargnani/Johnson/Davis
C: Valancuinas/Gray/Magloire
We could then look to trade either Kleiza/Johnson/Davis to free up cap space, and bring in some rookies, as 3rd stringers.
Here is the link to the article: http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=398523
The piece was certainly interesting. A few issues I have with it though:
- Courtney Lee was only used as an example but he, like any other RFA, is only going to end up being a Raptor if the Raps overpay. So I would remove any thoughts of filling SG with a RFA (that includes Mayo - although there is much more possibility of getting him than Lee as long as Gay or Randolph is on the Memphis roster, imo).
- When looking at that lineup it does not bode well for the future without significant moves in the not-too-distant-future. Calderon is going to be an UFA so PG remains up in the air. There is no way of knowing what JV will become (fingers crossed for franchise centre). The difference in ability/talent between first string and third string is still minimal (except for PG and C) unless significant growth occurs (and in the case of Bargnani health and consistency). One could argue there is not a single Raptor who could be said to be a top 10 player in the league at their position. With the exception of Indiana and Denver, this is hardly the norm but even in the case of the Nuggets or Pacers, they still have much, much more talent on the roster than the Raps would with the above.
- The financial flexibility would remain but an * should be placed by it. Next summer (if a move had not been made by the trade deadline) the Raptors would be limited to trading for talent unless they were prepared to let players go with the possibility of nothing coming back in return. Looking at 2013-14, assuming Kleiza picks up his option and the team exercises the option on Davis, the Raptors have about $30M tied up in 6 players (Bargnani, Amir, Kleiza, Davis, JV, and #8). Then the Raptors have capholds on Calderon, DeRozan, and James Johnson that takes them over the salary cap of $58M. This also assumes no salary is given out this year to any free agent - except for a one year contract. So next summer the Raptors would be limited to trades and MLE/Bi-Annual/minimum contracts in free agency unless they renounce the rights to DeRozan, Calderon, or Johnson.
A good argument can be made for staying the course (which is what I consider the above proposed lineup to be) or making a swing for the fences. Personally, if the Raptors can get a player like Rudy Gay (i.e. a top talent under 26 years of age) and somehow keep their own, acquire another lottery pick, or get the player they really want at a pick outside the lottery, I say swing for the fences with 100% confidence as it would be the best of both worlds. If another pick was not available, well then, that is what BC gets paid the big bucks to decide and if he gets it wrong this go round - adios amigo.
The section I found most interesting (aside from the whole "move Derozan to SF" part) was "They still have tradable assets like James Johnson and Ed Davis, along with a sign-and-trade asset in Jerryd Bayless, and the financial flexibility to make a big move later in the year if one comes available. I've long maintained that retaining flexibility is as important as any move the team could make this summer."
So Chisholm is talking about making a further move this coming season. Get Derozan working on whatever he needs to work on right now, with 4 1/2 months to go to the season opener, and then target a free agent or trade later in the summer or a trade before next seasons deadline.
This goes along with making improvements (draft, JV's arrival, additional coaching/training over the summer) and waiting for a good opportunity for a significant signing/trade as opposed to trying to "swing for the fences" early in the year. It seems every summer opportunities turn up that make us wish BC had waited a bit on some of his decisions.
What you are saying about the 2013-2014 salaries is interesting, thats news to me.
I do think that Courtney Lee would have to be overpaid to come to Toronto but not by much. He is expected to make about 4-5 million I believe in his next contract, with the raptors he might make 5-6 million, I don't think he has the leverage to demand much more. So it wouldn't be terribly overpaying him.
As far as talent on the roster goes, its true holding pat so to speak like this means that we are not adding a big time marquee player to our roster, and on paper it doesn't seem like we are improving that much. However we are nowhere near contending for a championship, so slow and steady is going to win the race at this stage in our teams development. Let's not forget that the biggest benefit of having a young team is that they have tremendous room to grow, and their can be "organic" or internal development. I think that adding more talent in the form of JV to the C position, having a healthy bargnani, having a full training camp and summer league, and most of all having another year under Dwayne Casey means that our team can get a lot better.
A player like Courtney Lee would fit into our system perfectly. In every team that he has played for he consistently guards the opposing teams best scoring wing, he knows his role on a team, he doesn't try and do too much, he plays within himself and understands his job is to defend and hit the spot up three pointer. I think even with a modest move such as this, because of the youth of our team, and the change in "culture" that is occuring you will see a much better Raptors team than last year, and perhaps an appearance in the playoffs.
That being said, since Colangelo and Casey are both in contract years, I do not see them making "modest" moves this offseason. I see them trying to swing for the fences, but if no decent transaction presents itself a move such as "moving derozan to the 3 and signing someone like Courtney Lee" is not a bad alternative.
I feel like Deng is getting coverage in at least 3 threads...
I would not trade #8 for Deng. However, I would gladly pursue a deal with New Orleans to acquire Ariza (using TPE) & #10 pick (perhaps using #56 pick and/or JJ), to then flip the #10 pick to Chicago for Deng. In order to make the deal work in ESPN's Trade Machine, the Raps needed to trade away some salary - JJ would be likely candidate, given that 2 SFs would be heading to Toronto.
Link: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=822zhbk
I would still much rather trade for Gay or try and sign Batum, but it would be a decent consolation prize to come away with Deng, provided the Raps keep the #8 pick as well.
LINEUP
C: Valanciunas, Gray
PF: Bargnani, Amir, Davis
SF: Deng, Ariza, Kleiza
SG: DeRozan, ???, Forbes
PG: Calderon, ???
+ #8 pick
+ #37 pick
+ whatever trading away Amir/Davis brings back
+ MLE
Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Jun 18th, 2012 at 11:38 AM.
Would it be possible to trade our 8th pick straight up for Deng? I don't see why you would not do it, personnally. Deng is a proven star player on the best team of the NBA regular season, he's a great defender, good scorer, unselfish, plus he's still only 27, which is only 1 year older than Gay. I don't see another option that is more realistic, since landing Gay or Batum are not going to happen. And I don't see a player at 8 that could make an impact as much as Deng on our team.
Trading a lotto pick for deng is only a shade better than the JO trade. What's Deng going to do for the team long term exactly? That's what the plan was right?
@jerboat
Long term? He's going to be a real starting caliber small forward. That's what he's going to do for the team long term exactly.
He should still have at least 5 good years left in him, but I share your concern. Although I understand the desire to get some veteran leadership on the team, age is a big concern I have for guys like Deng (27 next season), Iguodala (28/29) and Granger (29), especially when compounded by injury history like Deng has. Although Gay is only a year younger than Deng, it just seems like Deng has much more wear & tear on him.
The Raptors nor Courtney Lee have leverage in this situation. As Houston holds his rights, the Rockets hold all the leverage. What he will make is not something I care to venture about. The reality is Houston can match any contract. Given how much it appears the Rockets want to keep him and move Martin and given the Rockets have no issues with cap space, it seems to me the only way Lee is leaving Houston is on a significant overpayment.
I'm not sure I agree with the assessment of 'slow and steady' winning the race. The Raptors do not have Durant-Westbrook-Harden talent developing on the roster. Casey and the whole "culture change" was evident and successful this year. However, eventually, you're going to need talent. This roster below, from earlier in the thread, looks like a solid 12 lottery pick in my opinion.
PG: Calderon/Bayless/Uzoh
SG: Lee/Lamb/Anderson
SF: Derozan/Johnson/Kleiza
PF: Bargnani/Johnson/Davis
C: Valancuinas/Gray/Magloire
The issue, in my opinion, for the Raptors over the last few years can be looked at kind of like a teeter-totter - a talent teeter-totter if you will. Picture a slight slanted left teeter-totter with the first string being slightly - oh ever so slightly - slanted to the reserves. Again, this is just my opinion, but the Raptors have plenty of solid reserves. Many teams, like Memphis, have the talent but lack the complimentary players. Toronto has the exact opposite problem: too many complimentary players and not enough talent. In cashing in some complimentary/role players for top talent the Raptors can send that talent teeter-totter over to the starters side - as it should be in my opinion.
I guess why I feel grabbing a guy like Gay would be the best course of action is because I don't think any of the current Raptors have the potential to become an impact player like Gay. Consider the fact Gay has been putting up very similar numbers to what he has now since he was 21 years of age. The organic growth is a great concept but what if it never happens? Outside of Valanciunas (and that is because he has not played in the league yet), I am not seeing any all-stars among the young players. James Johnson is 25. Bayless will be 24 and ED/DD will be 23 this summer with 4 and 3/2 years in the league. Again, I'm just not seeing the potential to be near as good as a player such as Rudy Gay.
I think the merits of saying the team will experience organic growth is equal to saying the Raptors will become like a number of other teams who keep adding high draft picks with their wheels stuck in the mud - unless they get extremely luck of course.
Deng (wrist surgery needed with a suspect back), AI (declining health and production), and Granger (declining production and oldest of the lot) are not worth giving up the role players, cap space, and especially lotto pick in my opinion. However, Gay does meet the criteria (in my opinion!) and should the Raptors get Gay and somehow manage to get a player in the draft who they are interested in anyways, then that is a win-win and what I am absolutely hoping for regardless of how unrealistic that hope may be. Unfortunately or fortunately or however you want to say it, I do think my hope has more possibility for success than staying the course and hoping average/slightly above average NBA players (DD, JJ, ED, Bayless) become something more.
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