View Poll Results: Who should the Raptors target as their SF next season?

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  • Trade for Rudy Gay

    32 53.33%
  • Try and sign Nicolas Batum

    15 25.00%
  • Draft a SF with the 8th pick like PJ3 or TJones

    4 6.67%
  • Keep JJ and Kleiza for another year

    5 8.33%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Who should the Raptors target as their SF next season?: Raps eye AI/Gay (36)

  1. #121
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i like kirilenko after gay/iggy/batum probably a little ahead of chandler after how bad he played at the end of last year and way ahead of ilyasova for me. he is a smart guy who plays hard casey ball. 5-8 million a year after the nash deal also on a 3 year deal would be a nice pick up. then the bench is jj/ross/ed/bayless and amir with gray put in for matchups and jamaal and uzoh in garbage minutes.

  2. #122
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    A silver lining for Barnes fans in Toronto:

    For the last 2 off seasons, this time of year has had lots of Golden State Warriors trade rumours surrounding starting SF's in the league. With the drafting of Barnes in GS, those rumours no longer exist.

    So, there is one less team competing with Toronto on the trade front for a SF - just Cleveland, Milwaukee, Sacramento, and Minnesota remain.


    I do believe the starting SF will be addressed in a trade before training camp. Notice the restriction on the Lowry pick ends at 14? I have a feeling 15-30 will be offered in another trade with the right to swap should Houston claim the pick the previous year.

    FYI, no substance to these ramblings.

  3. #123
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Also related to GSW, I was wondering if a minor deal might be available revolving around Bayless (S&T) for Wright. With Barnes coming in and rumors persisting that GSW might match offers for Rush, it would seem that Wright is expendable (even noted on Wright's ESPN profile page). GSW needs a PG, as backup and insurace behind Steph Curry (Jenkins is the only other PG they even have on their roster as of right now). I could see Bayless fitting very well with GSW's up-tempo offense.

    Bayless' QO was roughly the same as Wright's contract, so there's potential for the salaries to match up. If Bayless signed for less (~ $2.5M) or if GSW included another minimum contract, it would be possible for Toronto to swap Bayless & JJ for Wright.

    A deal like that would add yet another wing to Toronto (5 already: DeRozan, Ross, Fields, Kleiza, JJ), though it could open the door for a trade that sees multiple decent wings being dealt away for a top-tier starting SF.

  4. #124
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    A very interesting comparison of SF's who are rumoured to be available and one Raptor who is rumoured to be on his way out of town:

    Player Min WP48 Wins PTS DRB ORB REB AST TO BLK STL PF
    Iguodala 2209 .255 11.7 16.8 7.1 1.2 8.3 7.4 2.5 0.7 2.3 2.0
    Batum 1791 .168 6.3 21.9 5.1 2.2 7.3 2.3 2.4 1.6 1.5 2.8
    Wright 1650 .155 5.3 18.3 6.3 1.7 8.1 2.7 1.5 0.8 1.7 2.8
    Deng 2129 .123 5.5 18.7 6.2 1.7 7.9 3.5 2.2 0.8 1.3 1.8
    Gay 2422 .119 6.0 24.4 5.7 2.6 8.3 2.9 3.2 1.1 1.9 2.7
    Johnson 1561 .061 2.0 17.4 6.7 2.3 9.0 3.8 3.1 2.6 2.2 5.4


    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids[]=150


    From this comparison, my thoughts:
    1) Iggy did much better than I thought
    2) Wright did much better than I thought
    3) Gay did much worse
    4) JJ did much worse
    5) If the Raptors are in to advanced stats as much as we are led to believe, AI is likely their #1 target.
    6) Click the link to see more but AI also has highest 3pt shooting % (39.4) of all compared.

  5. #125
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I like this site. Is there a thread that contains useful links for use in debate? If not a sticky thread somewhere that contains resources would be cool to have

  6. #126
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I like this site. Is there a thread that contains useful links for use in debate? If not a sticky thread somewhere that contains resources would be cool to have
    Yes there is... here's the link. Feel free to make suggestions for additional sites/topics.

    Link: http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...Fan-Essentials

  7. #127
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Well, the Sixers definitely have a type.

    Sixers Insider Dei Lynam reports that the Sixers have acquired 6-foot-9 swingman Dorell Wright from Golden State for a future draft pick.

    Wright averaged 10.3 points and 4.6 rebounds per game last season for the Warriors in 27 minutes per game.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-...edium=referral
    Well, it looks like Wright is on his way to the Atlantic Division.... just to another team.

    It will be interesting what the draft pick is.

    It is also interesting to look at their current wings:

    SG: Turner, Young
    SF: AI, Wright, Harkless

    T. Young can play 3/4 and Holiday can play 1/2.


    Is there a backlog here?

  8. #128
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Well, it looks like Wright is on his way to the Atlantic Division.... just to another team.

    It will be interesting what the draft pick is.

    It is also interesting to look at their current wings:

    SG: Turner, Young
    SF: AI, Wright, Harkless

    T. Young can play 3/4 and Holiday can play 1/2.


    Is there a backlog here?
    Is it time to start a "The case for Iggy to Toronto" thread?

  9. #129
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Is it time to start a "The case for Iggy to Toronto" thread?
    lol

    I think I could make a good one but I am still stinging from the outcome of the Nash thread - lol.

  10. #130
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    The Warriors have agreed to trade Dorell Wright to the Philadelphia 76ers, according to league sources. In return, Golden State gets the rights to a player Philadelphia previously drafted and stashed overseas. (Previously reported it was for a future draft pick. That was not correct)
    http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2012...or-draft-pick/

  11. #131
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    I was just coming back to fix this but you beat me to it - thanks.

    The Raptors could have sent them the rights to Zubcic! UGHHHHH! C'mon man! lol

    Wright is not a star but he is not garbage either. I can't believe the W's couldn't get ANYTHING for him.

  12. #132
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I was just coming back to fix this but you beat me to it - thanks.

    The Raptors could have sent them the rights to Zubcic! UGHHHHH! C'mon man! lol

    Wright is not a star but he is not garbage either. I can't believe the W's couldn't get ANYTHING for him.
    Looks like GSW didn't want to take back any salary.. and Toronto has its cap space tied up in Fields/Lowry. Wright may have been placed on the block too late for the Raps to do anything about it.

    I wouldn't mind going after Iggy at this point in time. Earlier in the season I would have said no, but the team does need talent, and Iggy would do wonders for us at the 3. I'm concerned that we could be giving up assets to a rental (he has an ETO next year). Iggy doesn't seem like a guy that would want to settle in Toronto. But who knows.. I'd throw Jose+Ed and maybe a 2nd rounder for him, and see if Stefanski can deliver. Jose is an expiring so no loss if Iggy leaves. Ed doesn't seem like a long term answer for Toronto especially if we keep Amir. We'd get a lot of cap space if Iggy does leave, and at that point we could look at guys like Josh Smith/Paul George/Gordon Hayward and make big offers for them.

    I'm not sure if Philly would want Jose though... especially if Turner can play the 1. The next offer I'd make would be Amir+DeMar for Iggy. Problem with that is both Amir and DeMar are very serviceable, and if Iggy leaves after one year we just lost two huge assets. Plus I'm not sure if Philly would want to deal their best player to a division rival.

    Minny may lose out on Batum and so if I was BC I'd try and make an offer sooner than later before Minny has similar ideas.

    I'd still rather have Gay though... not sure if he's even available. Maybe we need to wait until the trade deadline and go with Fields/Lowry + Ross/Acy in terms of acquisitions for the off season.
    Last edited by planetmars; Tue Jul 10th, 2012 at 07:18 PM.

  13. #133
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Looks like GSW didn't want to take back any salary.. and Toronto has its cap space tied up in Fields/Lowry. Wright may have been placed on the block too late for the Raps to do anything about it.

    I wouldn't mind going after Iggy at this point in time. Earlier in the season I would have said no, but the team does need talent, and Iggy would do wonders for us at the 3. I'm concerned that we could be giving up assets to a rental (he has an ETO next year). Iggy doesn't seem like a guy that would want to settle in Toronto. But who knows.. I'd throw Jose+Ed and maybe a 2nd rounder for him, and see if Stefanski can deliver. Jose is an expiring so no loss if Iggy leaves. Ed doesn't seem like a long term answer for Toronto especially if we keep Amir. We'd get a lot of cap space if Iggy does leave, and at that point we could look at guys like Josh Smith/Paul George/Gordon Hayward and make big offers for them.

    I'm not sure if Philly would want Jose though... especially if Turner can play the 1. The next offer I'd make would be Amir+DeMar for Iggy. Problem with that is both Amir and DeMar are very serviceable, and if Iggy leaves after one year we just lost two huge assets. Plus I'm not sure if Philly would want to deal their best player to a division rival.

    Minny may lose out on Batum and so if I was BC I'd try and make an offer sooner than later before Minny has similar ideas.

    I'd still rather have Gay though... not sure if he's even available. Maybe we need to wait until the trade deadline and go with Fields/Lowry + Ross/Acy in terms of acquisitions for the off season.
    You are most likely correct on the taking back salary. Without a S&T with the Knicks, the Raps were about $2.3M of cap space shy of making it work. JJ is $2.8M fwiw.

    As for AI, he has really grown on me the last couple of days. The 5th best wins produced in the NBA is nothing to sneeze at especially when you look at the 4 players ahead of him (CP3, LBJ, KD, and Tyson Chandler). With a healthy Bargnani, Bargnani would be the first offensive option. If DeRozan was kept he would be 2nd or 3rd with Lowry likely being the other. AI wouldn't be required to score as he'd likely be the 4th option - create, rebound, defend would be his calling card.

    As for his age, health, and declining production, they are all legit concerns. However, if the Raptors are only giving up Calderon, a big where there is a logjam, and another piece (JJ or DD) I don't see the concern because they will have a highly tradable asset or significant salary coming off the books. I consider DD a piece because based on the types of players the Raptors appear to be pursuing and the direction of the franchise under DC, I'm not sure DD is a long term piece anyways (there is not hate there for DD, just calling it like I see it which may very well be wrong).

  14. #134
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Matt you keep mentioning one thing about Iggy that is bugging me. You say his production is declining but the answer is a very simple one. Look at the distribution of scoring on the team. 6 guys near/over 10ppg and 2 more at 8ppg. Doug Collins changed the offense and focused heavily on defense. SO PLEASE stop saying he is declining. The numbers lie in his case

  15. #135
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You are most likely correct on the taking back salary. Without a S&T with the Knicks, the Raps were about $2.3M of cap space shy of making it work. JJ is $2.8M fwiw.

    As for AI, he has really grown on me the last couple of days. The 5th best wins produced in the NBA is nothing to sneeze at especially when you look at the 4 players ahead of him (CP3, LBJ, KD, and Tyson Chandler). With a healthy Bargnani, Bargnani would be the first offensive option. If DeRozan was kept he would be 2nd or 3rd with Lowry likely being the other. AI wouldn't be required to score as he'd likely be the 4th option - create, rebound, defend would be his calling card.

    As for his age, health, and declining production, they are all legit concerns. However, if the Raptors are only giving up Calderon, a big where there is a logjam, and another piece (JJ or DD) I don't see the concern because they will have a highly tradable asset or significant salary coming off the books. I consider DD a piece because based on the types of players the Raptors appear to be pursuing and the direction of the franchise under DC, I'm not sure DD is a long term piece anyways (there is not hate there for DD, just calling it like I see it which may very well be wrong).
    I wonder if Calderon, Davis, JJ and a 2nd round pick would be enough for Iggy? Or possibly a conditional 1st round pick (structured around the conditional pick going to Houston), instead of the 2nd rounder. They could also do Amir and Bayless ($10M), instead of Calderon and Davis ($13.3M).

    I've been pushing hard for Iggy since it appeared that Gay was likely off the market (which I'm more unsure of now, given Memphis' re-signings that pushed them into tax territory). I think a wing rotation of Iggy, Kleiza, DeRozan, Fields and Ross could be quite effective, assuming Kleiza spends heavy 2nd unit minutes at PF (with Amir at C).

    Toronto would need to find a backup PG, most likely, unless Calderon was still on the roster.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Jul 10th, 2012 at 09:06 PM.

  16. #136
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Matt you keep mentioning one thing about Iggy that keeps bugging me. You keep saying his production is declining but the answer is a very simple one. Look at the distribution of scoring on the team. 6 guys near/over 10ppg and 2 more at 8ppg. Doug Collins changed the offense and focused heavily on defense. SO PLEASE stop saying he is declining. The numbers lie in his case
    Right you are and will do. Thanks for highlighting that. I feel pretty stupid right now.

    His fg% has stayed pretty consistent with his 3pt rising and his ft dropping.

    When he averaged 19.9ppg in 2007-2008, he did it on 15.6fga per game. From then until now:

    2008-2009 18.8ppg on 14.0fga
    2009-2010 17.1ppg on 13.7fga
    2010-2011 14.0ppg on 11.3fga
    2011-2012 12.4ppg on 10.2fga

    His minutes since 08-09 have been in decline every year as well: from 39.9 to 35.6 last year.

    Thanks, thead.

  17. #137
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say Iggy's skills are declining so much as they're plateauing

  18. #138
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    there are a number of ways to look at a player. A coaching change can have quite the impact as well. See our very own team for that. The system changed we won more games but our scoring decreased. To people looking at individual stats it LOOKS like any player not named Bargnani regressed. Secondly...with our team again this year we got a new PG who runs a totally different program than the Jose pass 1st 2nd 3rd oh shit I better hit this three with no seconds left offense. Drive and kick rewards pure shooters...so you may again see DeRozan's PPG decline and someone like Ross and Bargnani inflate. Stats are useful but dangerous in a vacuum

  19. #139
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Iggy always passes the eye test (if you can't tell by now he is one of my favourite players) A SF that can guard ANYONE chip in even 12ppg but the huge thing with Bargnani at the 4 is the 6 boards and with more shooters ball movement is critical...6assists... I feel like he is a piece that could make us a second round playoff team.

  20. #140
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    there are a number of ways to look at a player. A coaching change can have quite the impact as well. See our very own team for that. The system changed we won more games but our scoring decreased. To people looking at individual stats it LOOKS like any player not named Bargnani regressed. Secondly...with our team again this year we got a new PG who runs a totally different program than the Jose pass 1st 2nd 3rd oh shit I better hit this three with no seconds left offense. Drive and kick rewards pure shooters...so you may again see DeRozan's PPG decline and someone like Ross and Bargnani inflate. Stats are useful but dangerous in a vacuum
    I tap! I submit! lol

    A playmaker such as AI would be very good next to Lowry. Lowry is capable of creating and dishing but he also looks to score.

    The Raptors perimeter defense would look pretty scary with Lowry and AI. That would be something the Raps have not had in a long, long time.... if ever.

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