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Chad Ford speaks of Deng to Raptors

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  • #91
    BTW, my opinion of Deng is based on the assumption that we trade our 8th pick for him. Losing a significant building block, for a player who needs good players around him to succeed, is far too steep a price to pay.

    On the other hand, if Deng was a free agent, I would be interested because he is a clear upgrade over JJ or Kleiza.

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    • #92
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      Gay HAS single-handedly taken over games (this is not an opinion).

      Maybe you've heard of the following role-player all-stars?

      - BJ Armstrong
      - Mark Price
      - Horace Grant
      - Tyrone Hill
      - Charles Oakley
      - Dan Marjele
      - Detlef Schrempf
      - Juwan Howard
      - Chris Gatling
      - Dale Davis
      - Anthony Mason
      - Theo Ratliff
      - Wally Szczerbiak
      - Shawn Marion
      - Brad Miller
      - Zydrunas Ilgauskas
      - Andrei Kirilenko
      - Jamaal Magloire
      - Ron Artest
      - Richard Hamilton
      - Josh Howard
      - Mehmet Okur
      - Mo Williams
      - David Lee
      - Chris Kaman
      - Luol Deng
      Let's go through some of those aformentioned names, shall we?
      Mark Price was a 4-time all-star, he was all nba 4 times, one of the best 3-point shooters in history.
      Shawn Marion was a 4-time all-star as well, and was all nba 2 times.
      Detlef Schrempf was a 3-time all star, 2 times sixth man of the year, and made and all-nba team
      Horace Grant made the all-nba defensive team 4 times and was one of the best rebounding big men in history
      Charles Oakley twice made an all defensive team
      Ron Artest is a former defensive player of the year, 4-time all defensive team and made the all nba team once
      Richard Hamilton made the all-star team 3 times
      Andrei Kirilenko made an all defensive team 3 times
      Brad Miller is a 2-time all star
      Dan Majerle was a 3-time all star and made an all-defensive team twice. His number is retired by the Suns.
      Juwan Howard was not only an all star, but made an all nba team


      Luol Deng was an all star this season and made an all-nba defensive team

      Where is Rudy Gay's all-nba team spot or all-star berth? Oh yeah, that's right he doesn't have one but he's better than all of these role players. He should just enter the Hall of fame now and have his number retired by the Grizz because he takes over so many games by himself.

      Comment


      • #93
        The resumes you listed don't dispute the fact that they were role players.

        If you hypothetically trade our 8th pick for Mark Price (in his prime), how far can the Raptors go? How much value did Marion have the moment he lost Nash and Stoudamire?

        These guys were all role players. They fit into very specific keyholes. Not worth trading a lotto pick for.

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        • #94
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          The resumes you listed don't dispute the fact that they were role players.

          If you hypothetically trade our 8th pick for Mark Price (in his prime), how far can the Raptors go? How much value did Marion have the moment he lost Nash and Stoudamire?

          These guys were all role players. They fit into very specific keyholes. Not worth trading a lotto pick for.
          Okay, we'll agree to disagree on this matter. I've said my piece, you've said yours. We'll leave it at that.

          Comment


          • #95
            thead wrote: View Post
            Maybe you've heard of the following role-player all-stars?

            - BJ Armstrong
            - Mark Price
            - Horace Grant
            - Tyrone Hill
            - Charles Oakley
            - Dan Marjele
            - Detlef Schrempf
            - Juwan Howard
            - Chris Gatling
            - Dale Davis
            - Anthony Mason
            - Theo Ratliff
            - Wally Szczerbiak
            - Shawn Marion
            - Brad Miller
            - Zydrunas Ilgauskas
            - Andrei Kirilenko
            - Jamaal Magloire
            - Ron Artest
            - Richard Hamilton
            - Josh Howard
            - Mehmet Okur
            - Mo Williams
            - David Lee
            - Chris Kaman
            - Luol Deng
            by this definition everyone is a role player...jesus[/QUOTE]

            Role player is a second unit player or someone who starts because a team has spwnt their money on other players/stars and they are cheap and decent all around.

            Like Kleiza and both Johnsons.

            I would say over the course of a career would be somebody like john salmons or maybe, jason terry. Def. Charlie V.
            If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

            Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

            Comment


            • #96
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              ...These guys were all role players. They fit into very specific keyholes. Not worth trading a lotto pick for.
              Going through the subsequent careers of the last ten years of lottery picks, and you might be valuing lottery picks too highly. Once you get past the first 3-4 (and a lot of those haven't been worth it) you get a lot of "role players" and worse. It is an education to look through the list, but I won't bother posting it here. Not hard to Google though.

              Comment


              • #97
                Puffer wrote: View Post
                Going through the subsequent careers of the last ten years of lottery picks, and you might be valuing lottery picks too highly. Once you get past the first 3-4 (and a lot of those haven't been worth it) you get a lot of "role players" and worse. It is an education to look through the list, but I won't bother posting it here. Not hard to Google though.
                I agree with your point about the uncertainty of lotto picks. But I would much rather hold onto the "chance" of drafting a stud, rather than trading for a player who has already reached his ceiling, and who isn't good enough to lead/carry a team.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  I agree with your point about the uncertainty of lotto picks. But I would much rather hold onto the "chance" of drafting a stud, rather than trading for a player who has already reached his ceiling, and who isn't good enough to lead/carry a team.
                  This conversation is very interesting.

                  If you think back to when Kobe wanted out of LA (infamous parking lot incident/video of Bryant trashing not giving up Bynum for Kidd and before Gasol trade among other incidents), Kobe was packing his bags for Chicago but the Bulls balked because they did not want to include Deng (this is how I remember it, correct me if I am wrong).

                  Just goes to show the value of 'potential' - the allure of the promise of the unknown, and unlikely, possibility.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    MangoKid wrote: View Post
                    Let's go through some of those aformentioned names, shall we?
                    Mark Price was a 4-time all-star, he was all nba 4 times, one of the best 3-point shooters in history.
                    Shawn Marion was a 4-time all-star as well, and was all nba 2 times.
                    Detlef Schrempf was a 3-time all star, 2 times sixth man of the year, and made and all-nba team
                    Horace Grant made the all-nba defensive team 4 times and was one of the best rebounding big men in history
                    Charles Oakley twice made an all defensive team
                    Ron Artest is a former defensive player of the year, 4-time all defensive team and made the all nba team once
                    Richard Hamilton made the all-star team 3 times
                    Andrei Kirilenko made an all defensive team 3 times
                    Brad Miller is a 2-time all star
                    Dan Majerle was a 3-time all star and made an all-defensive team twice. His number is retired by the Suns.
                    Juwan Howard was not only an all star, but made an all nba team


                    Luol Deng was an all star this season and made an all-nba defensive team

                    Where is Rudy Gay's all-nba team spot or all-star berth? Oh yeah, that's right he doesn't have one but he's better than all of these role players. He should just enter the Hall of fame now and have his number retired by the Grizz because he takes over so many games by himself.
                    The reason those guys were that good of role players were because they played with guy like mj on their team. So they had no pressure on them to do anything, right now if we had gay and bargnani derozan would probably crack a couple of all star games because the defenses will be closed in on bargs and gay which will give derozan freedom to score.

                    Comment


                    • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                      The reason those guys were that good of role players were because they played with guy like mj on their team. So they had no pressure on them to do anything, right now if we had gay and bargnani derozan would probably crack a couple of all star games because the defenses will be closed in on bargs and gay which will give derozan freedom to score.
                      Wow, all of those guys played with Jordan? Jordan sure had a lot of teammates.

                      Comment


                      • I'd like to know why Bosh is not on that list...all star, a ring now but still and always a role player

                        Comment


                        • MangoKid wrote: View Post
                          Wow, all of those guys played with Jordan? Jordan sure had a lot of teammates.
                          I said guys LIKE Jordan on their team, in other words they had a superstar on the team that would attract a lot of defenses which gave them room to do what they wanted. None of them could be number 1 options. Next time read what I wrote then reply

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                          • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                            I said guys LIKE Jordan on their team, in other words they had a superstar on the team that would attract a lot of defenses which gave them room to do what they wanted. None of them could be number 1 options. Next time read what I wrote then reply
                            Guys like Jordan? There weren't a lot of guys like Jordan in the NBA. Here's the thing - the guys on the list above, most of them are fringe hall of famers. Did you know that?

                            Comment


                            • Bendit wrote: View Post
                              I'd like to know why Bosh is not on that list...all star, a ring now but still and always a role player
                              Mike Miller, he's a role player. Norris Cole, he's a role player. Rony Turiaf, he's a role player. Bosh isn't a role player, but I do know what you were getting at

                              Comment


                              • MangoKid wrote: View Post
                                Guys like Jordan? There weren't a lot of guys like Jordan in the NBA. Here's the thing - the guys on the list above, most of them are fringe hall of famers. Did you know that?
                                yes but you know why they were "fringe" HOF's? because they had a surefire HOF on their team that made everyone around them better.
                                For example:

                                Horace Grant had Jordan
                                Shawn Marion had Steve Nash
                                Big Z had LeBron

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