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Thread: Colangelo going for broke? Bayless Bust? JJ a head case?

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Colangelo going for broke? Bayless Bust? JJ a head case?

    If BC is now trying to save his ass...

    ...But it’s past time for the Raps to throw the fans a bone, namely, a playoff team, and for that to happen, we need a stronger and healthier (please!) roster. If BC has built us up, only to let us down, this is his last year in Tdot. MORE...
    If this is true I am expecting the proper rebuild to be derailed for immediate (and likely mediocre) returns. This summer could leave intelligent Rap fans saying WTF? Deng... Iggy? really? for 8th pick?

    Interesting to see that Bayless was in attendance to watch PG draft prospects (assuming BC does not trade the pick)
    Three current Raptors took in Tuesday’s workouts: DeMar DeRozan, Jerryd Bayless and Ed Davis. MORE...
    it's a shame he is perpetually injured or the Raptors weakest position would not be filled with so many question marks.

    Finally What the hell happened with James Johnson? I mean I know something happened and he was sitting out down the stretch.
    #21 ranked in the league with 81 blocks ... and he is a SF for goodness sake
    #41 in the league for Steal Per Game

    not bad for 1.8 million

    he must be a total headcase behind closed doors for BC to be shopping a lottery pick and being willing to take on almost 10x that salary.... wow JR Rider perhaps?
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    If BC is now trying to save his ass...



    If this is true I am expecting the proper rebuild to be derailed for immediate (and likely mediocre) returns. This summer could leave intelligent Rap fans saying WTF? Deng... Iggy? really? for 8th pick?

    Interesting to see that Bayless was in attendance to watch PG draft prospects (assuming BC does not trade the pick)


    it's a shame he is perpetually injured or the Raptors weakest position would not be filled with so many question marks.

    Finally What the hell happened with James Johnson? I mean I know something happened and he was sitting out down the stretch.
    #21 ranked in the league with 81 blocks ... and he is a SF for goodness sake
    #41 in the league for Steal Per Game

    not bad for 1.8 million

    he must be a total headcase behind closed doors for BC to be shopping a lottery pick and being willing to take on almost 10x that salary.... wow JR Rider perhaps?
    I honestly think that Bayless has played unbelievably well for us coming off the bench, almost well enough to warrant being a starting PG in this league.

    As far as JJ is concerned I too was shocked at Casey's lack of trust in his game, leading our team in blocks and steals, while shooting a decent percentage from the field, and averaging good rebounding numbers for a SF. He deserves more credit in my opinion, the only thing I can see as his downfall is perhaps some attitude issues, he probably feels he should be getting 36 min. per game and casey isnt giving it to him, hence some attitude.

    As for Iggy or Deng, I would gladly trade the 8th pick for either one of those guys. Those guys are proven stars in this league, where as an 8th pick hasn't proven shit. I'm sure we would have to give up a lot more than the 8th to get those guys.

    No team goes from being a lottery team to winning the championship the following year without making huge offseason acquisitions (see boston celtics). It starts with making the playoffs, then advancing deeper into the playoffs etc. Making the playoffs next year is not derailing the rebuild in my opinion, in fact it is an essential part of the rebuild.

    Just my opinion.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    If BC is now trying to save his ass...



    If this is true I am expecting the proper rebuild to be derailed for immediate (and likely mediocre) returns. This summer could leave intelligent Rap fans saying WTF? Deng... Iggy? really? for 8th pick?

    Interesting to see that Bayless was in attendance to watch PG draft prospects (assuming BC does not trade the pick)


    it's a shame he is perpetually injured or the Raptors weakest position would not be filled with so many question marks.

    Finally What the hell happened with James Johnson? I mean I know something happened and he was sitting out down the stretch.
    #21 ranked in the league with 81 blocks ... and he is a SF for goodness sake
    #41 in the league for Steal Per Game

    not bad for 1.8 million

    he must be a total headcase behind closed doors for BC to be shopping a lottery pick and being willing to take on almost 10x that salary.... wow JR Rider perhaps?

    Really, WTF are you saying?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Really, WTF are you saying?
    Yeah I am a tad confused as well.

    All I can say that is somewhat related to this thread is that I hope we keep our hands on JJ.

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    Bayless is a proven baller and I hope he can crack the starting PG position next year just to see what he is capable of. I feel he can be a good starting PG for us. I mean if we are looking at Lilard, is there really a difference? Both scoring PGs, both about the same age with Bayless being in the league much longer.

    As for JJ. I really don't know whats wrong with him. I figure it has to be attitude or something. Cause even Chicago didn't want him as a backup.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I honestly think that Bayless has played unbelievably well for us coming off the bench, almost well enough to warrant being a starting PG in this league.

    As far as JJ is concerned I too was shocked at Casey's lack of trust in his game, leading our team in blocks and steals, while shooting a decent percentage from the field, and averaging good rebounding numbers for a SF. He deserves more credit in my opinion, the only thing I can see as his downfall is perhaps some attitude issues, he probably feels he should be getting 36 min. per game and casey isnt giving it to him, hence some attitude.
    Bayless comes in cold after and injury .. takes a few games to get a rhythm and starts looking very VERY effective, and then boom INJURED AGAIN. Biggest tease of the season IMO

    I have taken a lot of heat for my backing on JJohnson. I have gone so far as to call him a poor mans Denis Rodman. He has remarkable athleticism and versatility. However I trust D Casey and if he benched a defensive menace like JJ there must have been good reason. it will be a shame if JJ does not realize his potential or is subjected to some form of mental illness that keeps setting him back...
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Bayless comes in cold after and injury .. takes a few games to get a rhythm and starts looking very VERY effective, and then boom INJURED AGAIN. Biggest tease of the season IMO

    I have taken a lot of heat for my backing on JJohnson. I have gone so far as to call him a poor mans Denis Rodman. He has remarkable athleticism and versatility. However I trust D Casey and if he benched a defensive menace like JJ there must have been good reason. it will be a shame if JJ does not realize his potential or is subjected to some form of mental illness that keeps setting him back...
    i am also a big jj fan but only as a role player. i don't think he could start on a good team. he couldn't crack the rotation on a good team already. to me it is a case of a good defensive player who was given a green light to play some offense on a bad team while the team saw what they had in him. didn't like one aspect of his game and tried to reign him in. he is a young kid and made a mistake. if after the smack down and the interviews he has more than likely had since then or especially the season ending interviews with coach and gm, the team and him might be on seperate pages of what they both want.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Benching players happens more often than people think. I think the thread is overreacting. Just because there are some vague mentions of the possibility of acquiring a SF does not mean we should be throwing JJ under the bus. It's also not the first time a player is pissed not getting enuff playing time. Its really how its handled. I personally rather like my players feisty (especially when they are young) about playing time. How they interact with the coach is another thing of course. JJ at this time has yet to prove he is an elite SF. But I'd rather have him on the team than off.

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    If BC is now trying to save his ass...

    Finally What the hell happened with James Johnson? I mean I know something happened and he was sitting out down the stretch.
    #21 ranked in the league with 81 blocks ... and he is a SF for goodness sake
    #41 in the league for Steal Per Game
    not bad for 1.8 million
    he must be a total headcase behind closed doors for BC to be shopping a lottery pick and being willing to take on almost 10x that salary.... wow JR Rider perhaps?
    Bayless: IMO opinion pretty straight forward. Can play BUT, injured way too much. Could he be a starter? Yes, but again-injured way too much & thus no continuity for team.
    JJ: Big fan; IMO comparable numbers to Iggy (at 1/4 price). Head case? Don't know. He was playing solid, then DNP coaches decision. Very curious. His outside shooting is poor, but hustle, D exceptional. Only Casey & BC know if it's salvageable.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Usagi_yo_Jimbo's Avatar
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    Im just hoping JJ gets his shit together, i mean he's playing good and stuff, something mental maybe? But we could have him start at the SF if we dont get anyone through a trade or free agency. Then, draft lillard or rivers to have that extra "cockiness" on the team that can deliver.

    I was a fan of bayless, but like all ya'll are saying he gets injured waaaay to often, again, thats where drafting rivers could come in handy...who knows, he might just surprise everyone and out franchise might have a bonafide star.

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Benching players happens more often than people think. I think the thread is overreacting. Just because there are some vague mentions of the possibility of acquiring a SF does not mean we should be throwing JJ under the bus. It's also not the first time a player is pissed not getting enuff playing time. Its really how its handled. I personally rather like my players feisty (especially when they are young) about playing time. How they interact with the coach is another thing of course. JJ at this time has yet to prove he is an elite SF. But I'd rather have him on the team than off.
    i think it has been more than vague in the need of a sf and i hope you aren't holding your breath for jj to show he is elite

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I honestly think that Bayless has played unbelievably well for us coming off the bench, almost well enough to warrant being a starting PG in this league.

    As far as JJ is concerned I too was shocked at Casey's lack of trust in his game, leading our team in blocks and steals, while shooting a decent percentage from the field, and averaging good rebounding numbers for a SF. He deserves more credit in my opinion, the only thing I can see as his downfall is perhaps some attitude issues, he probably feels he should be getting 36 min. per game and casey isnt giving it to him, hence some attitude.

    As for Iggy or Deng, I would gladly trade the 8th pick for either one of those guys. Those guys are proven stars in this league, where as an 8th pick hasn't proven shit. I'm sure we would have to give up a lot more than the 8th to get those guys.

    No team goes from being a lottery team to winning the championship the following year without making huge offseason acquisitions (see boston celtics). It starts with making the playoffs, then advancing deeper into the playoffs etc. Making the playoffs next year is not derailing the rebuild in my opinion, in fact it is an essential part of the rebuild.

    Just my opinion.
    Trading the 8th pick for iggy or deng is retarded. It just replaces us with the sixers for the 8th seed and puts us in the mediocre category

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Trading the 8th pick for iggy or deng is retarded. It just replaces us with the sixers for the 8th seed and puts us in the mediocre category
    i wouldn't mind iggy as i think his 2 years left would allow this team to grow while winning a bit more and in 2 more years he can either be signed for less or his entire salary comes off the hooks just as we would be expecting bigv and the gang ready to compete. but i don't think deng is as good as he is given credit for and wouldn't make that trade.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    I like Bayless and JJ as backups, since I'm a believer in versatility in the 2nd unit, and between them they can back up 1-4. Kleiza and JJohnson are redundant though if we get a legit starting 3. So one of them should go, I would prefer to keep JJ, but would expect the team to go with Linus, given whatever issue JJ and Casey had, plus Kleiza's Lithuanian connection being a positive for JV, and the fact that James Johnson probably has more trade value.

    Bayless I would keep if he excepted the fact that he's a combo guard, and there a rotation player, not a starter. If we draft Waiters, though, Bayless is gone.

    Rivers may make a good coach one day, but probably never an above average NBA player. So If we do get him, the only spot he'll take is on the deep bench.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Trading the 8th pick for iggy or deng is retarded. It just replaces us with the sixers for the 8th seed and puts us in the mediocre category
    +1

    totally agree. is that really worth torching a lottery pick and getting a bloated salary?

    ... a quick first round dismissal vs 1 or 2 seed (no thanks)
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    ...a quick first round dismissal vs 1 or 2 seed (no thanks)
    Your implication is that by keeping and using the 8th pick (notice that I said 8TH pick) the Raptors will somehow become a 1st or 2nd seed in the East?

    Maybe it is just me, but I don't see ANYONE likely to be available at 8th that will do that for this team. And, quite frankly, going from where they are now to to the 8th seed would be a very good thing in my mind. What makes you think that getting to 8th means they have to STAY in "mediocre" category? And how does a two year contract guarantee perpetual mediocre. Again, maybe it's just me, but I don't see a pile of teams leaping from the mid twenties to 3rd or 4th seed in one or two years. Most seem to pass through the "8th seed" territory on their way to the top.

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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I honestly think that Bayless has played unbelievably well for us coming off the bench, almost well enough to warrant being a starting PG in this league.

    As far as JJ is concerned I too was shocked at Casey's lack of trust in his game, leading our team in blocks and steals, while shooting a decent percentage from the field, and averaging good rebounding numbers for a SF. He deserves more credit in my opinion, the only thing I can see as his downfall is perhaps some attitude issues, he probably feels he should be getting 36 min. per game and casey isnt giving it to him, hence some attitude.

    As for Iggy or Deng, I would gladly trade the 8th pick for either one of those guys. Those guys are proven stars in this league, where as an 8th pick hasn't proven shit. I'm sure we would have to give up a lot more than the 8th to get those guys.

    No team goes from being a lottery team to winning the championship the following year without making huge offseason acquisitions (see boston celtics). It starts with making the playoffs, then advancing deeper into the playoffs etc. Making the playoffs next year is not derailing the rebuild in my opinion, in fact it is an essential part of the rebuild.

    Just my opinion.
    I agree for the most part.

    P.S.Charlz, I ignored everything after you wrote "intelligent rap fans saying".

    Keep your insults to yourself. Just because people don't have the same ideas as you and opinions, does not make them any less than you.

    Sometimes I think you guys forget it is a five year rebuild, not a 7 or more. You have to be perennial playoff contenders by the end at least. We haven't been close to making the playoffs yet and it is year three.

    Plus, well we are all entitled to our opinions. Let's face it all of us combined would be a worse GM than Colangelo.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Mindlessness's Avatar
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    I agree with Puffer

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Your implication is that by keeping and using the 8th pick (notice that I said 8TH pick) the Raptors will somehow become a 1st or 2nd seed in the East?

    Maybe it is just me, but I don't see ANYONE likely to be available at 8th that will do that for this team. And, quite frankly, going from where they are now to to the 8th seed would be a very good thing in my mind. What makes you think that getting to 8th means they have to STAY in "mediocre" category? And how does a two year contract guarantee perpetual mediocre. Again, maybe it's just me, but I don't see a pile of teams leaping from the mid twenties to 3rd or 4th seed in one or two years. Most seem to pass through the "8th seed" territory on their way to the top.
    Good point but no mention of Salary cap usage. If you jump on Deng or Iggy you loose number 8 and burn up 1/4 of your cap.
    I think 1/4 of the cap and #8 is worth more personally.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    I agree for the most part.

    P.S.Charlz, I ignored everything after you wrote "intelligent rap fans saying".

    Keep your insults to yourself. Just because people don't have the same ideas as you and opinions, does not make them any less than you.
    My apologies it was not intended in that tone.

    What I was trying to imply was that Rap fans are getting smarter we can't be hood winked by BC's smooth talk much longer if it is not backed up by a good product.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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