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Thread: So what is going on in BC's head right now?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default So what is going on in BC's head right now?

    If you have come looking for answers, prepare for only more questions!


    t’s just over a week before the Raptors may or may not make the eighth selection in the draft and the president and general manager is running down a multitude of options:

    • He’s had conversations with teams that want the pick in a package for an existing player.

    “A couple of players of interest that I would tell you would join our team and would have an immediate impact, which is intriguing,” he said.

    • He’s had conversations with teams that want the pick, offering a later pick plus a player in return.

    “The apprehension is you still want to retain a pick in the draft, so maybe moving back would be an option in some scenarios,” he admits.

    • He’s had teams willing to part with a higher pick, but the cost would be significant.

    “I have been offered a higher pick for a pretty significant asset, but I’m not prepared to part with that asset,” he said, refusing to name the asset but it’s not a stretch to think it’s 2011 first-rounder Jonas Valanciunas.

    • He’s more than willing to make the No. 8 selection if all else fails, even if it turns out to be a player at a position filled on the current roster.

    “Even if there’s a stacking principle, or duplication if you will, assets are important in this business in terms of improving your club,” he said. “Picking the best talent might yield something to be used down the road in a transaction.”

    It is far from crystal clear.


    While Colangelo would not name names as far as who he might pick, it’s not difficult to figure it out. He expects Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist of Kentucky, Brad Beal of Florida, Thomas Robinson of Kansas, Weber State’s Damian Lillard and, likely, Harrison Barnes of North Carolina to be gone — leaving Duke’s Austin Rivers, Dion Waiters of Syracuse and Ohio State’s Jared Sullinger as possibilities at No. 8.

    “There’s a host of guys who are still there,” said Colangelo, who will meet with Toronto’s medical staff Tuesday and the team’s sports psychology consultant Wednesday for reports on various players.

    The Raptors will hold one more significant workout session in Toronto. On Thursday, Sullinger, Baylor forward Perry Jones III, Kentucky forward Terrence Jones and, possibly, North Carolina forward John Henson will work out at the Air Canada Centre.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...-draft-options


    That clears up a lot - /serious sarcasm.

    Nice to see everything is still on the table.

    The workout on Thursday will be interesting.

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Dion Waiters is still my pick. If he can somehow fall later in the draft, I would trade down to get some additional asset in return. It's more than likely that Lillard will be gone, especially now that Sullinger is red flagged.

    The draft is really unclear and is so difficult to predict, after Anthony Davis. I'm not sure where Waiters stands right now in the eyes of many GM's, but he would be my guy, in the 11-15 range.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    if a team like charlotte or the kings were offering their pick for bargs without us giving up our pick and BC passes i will make the drive to Toronto and put mild cheddar on Colangelo's linguine.
    @jerboat

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    Good, hopefully PJ3 performs well in the workout.

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    I agree. If we can't move up, or if Barnes or Beal doesn't move down, I would like to get PJ3.

    Though back to the thread question, i think BC is looking for veteran players to fill out our starting 5. A team led by Jose/Mglore as the locker room guys (i assume) isn't that good. We need proven leaders. Leaders with playoff experience. A player like Derek Fisher. A player that other young players would look up to and would listen. I think BC trades our pick for a veteran or actively looks for players with a great locker room presence. That said, Steve Nash make a whole lot of sense to me.

    Veteran player, great locker room guy, a player who makes everyone else around him better, well conditioned, and a Canadian symbol on our only team.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default More insights....

    .... this time from Stephen Brotherston at HoopsWorld.com:

    After spending last season watching his team lose games in order to create salary cap space and future flexibility, Colangelo is ready to make deals at the draft and in the coming free agent period. Unfortunately, it takes two teams to make a deal and Toronto has to prepare for the draft assuming any number of possible scenarios could be played out.

    “The one issue that we have here is that we have three picks in this draft and we have Valanciunas coming over,” said Stefanski. “No coach wants four rookies on his team so that’s an issue that we have to look at and there are various ways if you move (picks) or make trades that we could reduce that number.”

    If the Raptors retain their lottery pick, they will be selecting Barnes or the best available player and that best available player could be Lamb. With their next pick, Toronto will be able to find a point guard to play behind Calderon, but whether or not the best available player and their second pick is around for training camp will probably depend on Colangelo’s ability to make a deal.
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/raptors-wa...ailable-player


    The above is just the last 3 paragraphs. It is worth the click to read the whole article, in my opinion.

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    [QUOTE=Matt52;135889].... this time from Stephen Brotherston at HoopsWorld.com:



    http://www.hoopsworld.com/raptors-wa...ailable-player



    Don't you think its pretty obvious that the Raptors would select Barnes at 8 if he's available and if not, the BPA? Good reporting....

    Do you know any other articles that say Lamb is the next best player, i.e. above waiters? everything I have read shows us basically picking Waiters (again, assuming we don't trade the pick which we probably will if we can get an established wing)

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    • He’s had conversations with teams that want the pick in a package for an existing player.

    “A couple of players of interest that I would tell you would join our team and would have an immediate impact, which is intriguing,” he said.

    • He’s had conversations with teams that want the pick, offering a later pick plus a player in return.

    “The apprehension is you still want to retain a pick in the draft, so maybe moving back would be an option in some scenarios,” he admits.
    The first part is pretty obvious, as it refers to players like Gay, Deng, Iguodala, Granger, etc...

    What I find really intriguing is the second part. I wonder what players have been offered, and how far down the Raps would be dropping? This is the one type of deal that we haven't really heard too many rumors about and haven't really discussed much, as a result of the lack of rumors.

    I know Houston is rumored to be offering #14 & #16 to move up. I wonder if they've offered both picks for #8, or possibly Lowry & a pick for #8? Calderon & #8 for Lowry & Dalembert & #14???

    There's all sorts of possibilities once you start considering moving down... would be so curious to know what some of the offers have been.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Jun 19th, 2012 at 10:14 AM.

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    I think what would interest some teams on draft night is if a guy like Drummond falls to number 8. I can see a team like Memphis or the 76ers getting a lot more interested in the number 8th pick if he falls. There are so many variables at play. I'm looking forward to draft night.

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    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    What I find really intriguing is the second part. I wonder what players have been offered, and how far down the Raps would be dropping? This is the one type of deal that we haven't really heard too many rumors about and haven't really discussed much, as a result of the lack of rumors.

    I know Houston is rumored to be offering #14 & #16 to move up. I wonder if they've offered both picks for #8, or possibly Lowry & a pick for #8? Calderon & #8 for Lowry & Dalembert & #14???
    That's how I read it -- the way the rumours have died down the past week or so makes me think things are probably well in motion on whatever move BC plans to make prior to/on draft night. The Gay trade seems less likely at this point than a Houston trade for Lowry or Dragic, IMO. I'd be very happy with either guy plus the #14 or #16 for the #8 pick.

    The 14/16 is still going to get Toronto someone useful at a position of need: Waiters could fall that far, Rivers, Harkless, Ross, QMiller... all project to be in the mix between 8 and 20 somewhere. If the Raptors could end up with something like the following lineup on June 29th, I think most people would be happy, or should be:

    Lowry/Calderon
    Derozan/Waiters/Forbes
    JJohnson/Kleiza
    Bargnani/AJohnson/EDavis
    Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire

    Still with a TPE, cap space and tradeable assets...
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    That's how I read it -- the way the rumours have died down the past week or so makes me think things are probably well in motion on whatever move BC plans to make prior to/on draft night. The Gay trade seems less likely at this point than a Houston trade for Lowry or Dragic, IMO. I'd be very happy with either guy plus the #14 or #16 for the #8 pick.

    The 14/16 is still going to get Toronto someone useful at a position of need: Waiters could fall that far, Rivers, Harkless, Ross, QMiller... all project to be in the mix between 8 and 20 somewhere. If the Raptors could end up with something like the following lineup on June 29th, I think most people would be happy, or should be:

    Lowry/Calderon
    Derozan/Waiters/Forbes
    JJohnson/Kleiza
    Bargnani/AJohnson/EDavis
    Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire

    Still with a TPE, cap space and tradeable assets...
    It would be interesting to go through the teams behind the Raptors and speculate what player they might be dangling. Teams know the Raps need wing players and PG, but the quality of player would depend on how far the drop in the draft. It's interesting that a deal for Deng could fall into both categories, if the Raps were to get the #29 pick in return (or #25 from Memphis in a trade for Gay). Draft night can't come soon enough and I'm just hopeful that us Raptors fans don't wind up feeling disappointed with whatever transpires.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    I am feeling quite comfortable with the choice of a guard being evaluated and made by a combo of BC & Stefanski. Between the two they have made som pretty decent choices in the past....Jrue Holiday, Lou Williams, Nash, Joe Johnson to name some. The Stefanski interview was also conspicuosly absent of Bayless.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    That's how I read it -- the way the rumours have died down the past week or so makes me think things are probably well in motion on whatever move BC plans to make prior to/on draft night. The Gay trade seems less likely at this point than a Houston trade for Lowry or Dragic, IMO. I'd be very happy with either guy plus the #14 or #16 for the #8 pick.

    The 14/16 is still going to get Toronto someone useful at a position of need: Waiters could fall that far, Rivers, Harkless, Ross, QMiller... all project to be in the mix between 8 and 20 somewhere. If the Raptors could end up with something like the following lineup on June 29th, I think most people would be happy, or should be:

    Lowry/Calderon
    Derozan/Waiters/Forbes
    JJohnson/Kleiza
    Bargnani/AJohnson/EDavis
    Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire

    Still with a TPE, cap space and tradeable assets...
    I can't say I'd be terribly excited about this lineup.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I can't say I'd be terribly excited about this lineup.
    If BC can't get a deal done for a star wing (ie: Gay, Igodala, Deng), none of the top-7 prospects fall, Nash has no interest in signing with Toronto and BC's primary 2nd-tier draft target is Rivers (as an example), then a deal with Houston to pickup Lowry, while still being able to draft Rivers with a slightly lower pick, would be a fantastic deal IMO. Having said that, the starting SF position would still desperately need to be addressed. In that scenario, I don't mind a lineup like that as a post-draft lineup, assuming that it's just a launching point for the rest of BC's offseason makeover!

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    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I can't say I'd be terribly excited about this lineup.
    Don't need to be excited about it. But it might be the best they can do, and it wouldn't be bad for a team looking to hit playoff stride immediately and to be competing for a championship in 3-4 years. And you're forgetting the remaining assets. I said June 29th, not opening day.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I guess I'm hoping that the hole at SF is addressed sooner rather than later.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    That's how I read it -- the way the rumours have died down the past week or so makes me think things are probably well in motion on whatever move BC plans to make prior to/on draft night. The Gay trade seems less likely at this point than a Houston trade for Lowry or Dragic, IMO. I'd be very happy with either guy plus the #14 or #16 for the #8 pick.

    The 14/16 is still going to get Toronto someone useful at a position of need: Waiters could fall that far, Rivers, Harkless, Ross, QMiller... all project to be in the mix between 8 and 20 somewhere. If the Raptors could end up with something like the following lineup on June 29th, I think most people would be happy, or should be:

    Lowry/Calderon
    Derozan/Waiters/Forbes
    JJohnson/Kleiza
    Bargnani/AJohnson/EDavis
    Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire

    Still with a TPE, cap space and tradeable assets...
    I don't see Waiters being available at one of the 14/16 draft picks but substitute him with Rivers/Ross/Lamb at SG or put Miller/Harkless in at SF and I would be very happy if that is what the roster looks like on June 29th.

    As jimmie said, there is still the cap space* possible MLE/TPE and tradeable assets to acquire more talent. If:
    1)Bargnani remains healthy and plays as he showed he is capable of (albeit small sample size - about 19/20 games of 31)
    2) Lowry plays as he did last year in Houston before bacterial infection
    3) JV being an impact rookie (i.e in running for ROY) this team could \
    4) Calderon/Bayless/TPE/MLE return solid rotational players (I'm thinking 25-28 year old shooters).....

    .... then I think this team could definitely compete for a 7/8 playoff seed in the east. Unfortunately, without serious future transactions or ridiculous growth by DD/JV/rookie, the team is destined to be a Atlanta Hawks-type franchise (i.e. second round ceiling).

    *If cap space is used to acquire free agents then MLE/TPE lost. If cap space is used via trade after July 1st, TPE/MLE still in play.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    4) Calderon/Bayless/TPE/MLE return solid rotational players (I'm thinking 25-28 year old shooters).....
    One of Davis/Amir and JJ would definitely be added to the group of tradeable assets, as well as the 2 2nd round picks in this year's draft, and possibly even 2013 draft picks.

    If Gay isn't available, Nash isn't in the cards and guys like Beal/MKG/Barnes/Lillard don't drop, then I would be quite happy with a trade of #8 & #56 for Lowry & #14 (likely to draft a backup SG).

    That would improve the roster immediately, address the PG issue and still leave BC with LOTS of flexibility to make subsequent moves.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    One of Davis/Amir and JJ would definitely be added to the group of tradeable assets, as well as the 2 2nd round picks in this year's draft, and possibly even 2013 draft picks.

    If Gay isn't available, Nash isn't in the cards and guys like Beal/MKG/Barnes/Lillard don't drop, then I would be quite happy with a trade of #8 & #56 for Lowry & #14 (likely to draft a backup SG).

    That would improve the roster immediately, address the PG issue and still leave BC with LOTS of flexibility to make subsequent moves.
    I think you need to settle for 16 and throw in ED to make that trade for Lowry. Also, Dragic needs to be resigned first. No way Houston trades Lowry without having a starting PG in place.

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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    I think what would interest some teams on draft night is if a guy like Drummond falls to number 8. I can see a team like Memphis or the 76ers getting a lot more interested in the number 8th pick if he falls. There are so many variables at play. I'm looking forward to draft night.
    Yeah, for me this is the only way that trading the pick makes a lot of sense. If one of the wing players drops (Beal, MKG, Barnes), Toronto should just take that player. If nobody drops, Toronto's not likely to get any good offers for the 8, because similar players are going to be available at 12 or 15. But if it's Drummond or Robinson that falls, Toronto should be working the phones to try to put together the best deal they can get.

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