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Thread: Veterans Who Could Be Ousted Because of the Draft

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Default Veterans Who Could Be Ousted Because of the Draft

    2 Raptors made the list. This was in the Insider section of ESPN:


    DeMar DeRozan, Toronto Raptors

    DeRozan is a problematic player. His physical gifts are unquestioned. However, his production has stagnated over his three NBA seasons. Last season, he used up a quarter of possessions while he was on the floor for Toronto. You expect a hit on efficiency when a player moves into a higher-usage responsibility, but DeRozan's efficiency went into the toilet as he posted a .503 true shooting percentage that was way under the league average. The lack of development is troubling as he enters the fourth season of his rookie contract, the time when teams have to make hard decisions regarding their young talent. Ford has the Raptors taking wing player Dion Waiters at No. 8, something that might punch DeRozan's eventual ticket out of town.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Amir Johnson, Toronto Raptors

    Johnson is the type of player who is useful if deployed appropriately, but if he's one of your starting big men, you're always going to be looking for an upgrade. The main reason the Raptors can go small with that eighth pick is that last season's first-round pick, Jonas Valanciunas, will be coming over to the Western Hemisphere to team with Andrea Bargnani on the Toronto front line. Unlike Bargnani, who is the prototypical European perimeter-floating big man, Valanciunas is more of a traditional NBA pivot. He's also young, which could preserve Johnson's starting job for a spell, but long term Valanciunas is going to take over the center position in Toronto.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Sounds about right

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I don't really consider DeRozan a vet but yeah, he could get traded depending on how the draft works out. I'm still rooting for him though. I have a hard time giving up on a guy with a strong work ethic, a positive attitude and a love for the city.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't really consider DeRozan a vet but yeah, he could get traded depending on how the draft works out. I'm still rooting for him though. I have a hard time giving up on a guy with a strong work ethic, a positive attitude and a love for the city.
    +1 and i think the team would try him at the 3 before sending him out even if i don't think he can play there myself.

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    Slow down ESPN insider, a lot of variables need to come into play for DD to be ousted,
    1. the raps draft a 2
    2. That 2 is a better option than DD by next year
    3. DD fails at the 3
    4. DD doesn't improve on last year (he has shown he's a gym rat, so I expect improvement this season)
    5. another team shows interest in DD, giving up enough value that BC considers a deal....

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I think if the Raptors have a shot at picking a guy that has some star potential like Waiters they have to pull the trigger. DeMar may have a break out season, or he may remain the same. Can't use a wait and see approach on an important decision like this. If they chose to use the draft pick this could be our last realistic shot to draft a star player for a while as most are expecting the Raptors to return to at the least .500 ball next season. And back to low draft pick mediocrity.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I think if the Raptors have a shot at picking a guy that has some star potential like Waiters they have to pull the trigger. DeMar may have a break out season, or he may remain the same. Can't use a wait and see approach on an important decision like this. If they chose to use the draft pick this could be our last realistic shot to draft a star player for a while as most are expecting the Raptors to return to at the least .500 ball next season. And back to low draft pick mediocrity.
    i would think that, and maybe i'm not fully getting you, you make waiters outplay dd first right?

    and i think bc can do more with a 16-22 range pick then some of our previous gms. that's when we start drafting need unless someone drops and bc has a good eye for talent. he just has that itchy gamblers brain that always thinks the next deal is the winner and he's back on top.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    You're not getting me fully. I wasn't saying that Waiters should surplant DD as the starter. I was saying that he has star potential and that we should draft him despite DD currently manning the starters role if BC determines Waiters is the player he wants. Waiters can't out play DD until we draft him, so that can only be determined once we draft him.

    What I don't want to see happen is a wait and see approach to see if DD has a break out season before drafting a SG (in a future draft) because we'll have lost an opportunity (in this draft) to draft a SG with a lot of promise.

    With JV on board next season and off season trade moves you have to expect that in a worst case scenario we are back to being a mediocre team playing somewhere around .500 ball. That equates to low draft picks in the immediate future. In a best case scenario we improve dramatically and that too equates to low draft picks. The time is now for trying to draft a star player with a relatively high pick. One scout in an article posted on the forum went as far as to say that after Davis, Waiters has the most potential to be a star. From the footage I've seen, as limited as it is I would concur that Waiters has that potential (not the only one, but in the 8th pick range I feel he has the most potential).

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    Too much conjecture about DD here and his demise. I am not the biggest DD fan but things seem to have a way of turning positive in a contract year. I think DD will also be much more serious about upgrading his skills this off season with the more watchful eye of Casey looking over the development of the young guys especially. The trade deadline next season will tell the tale for DD's long term tenure with the Raps. There is no question he needs to improve. I hope he does.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't really consider DeRozan a vet but yeah, he could get traded depending on how the draft works out. I'm still rooting for him though. I have a hard time giving up on a guy with a strong work ethic, a positive attitude and a love for the city.
    I agree, the guy has nothing but kind words for Toronto, and you know he's not just saying it to be loved coz he does stay in the city a lot and goes around promoting the game and the Raptors.

    I dont think its time to give up on him, im still banking on a solid training camp and practices under DC.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    As for Amir, I don't think anyone is confusing him for a starter. In the past, he's started out of necessity. But having Valanciunas around shouldn't impact Amir any more/less than it impacts Davis.

    One of Davis/Amir will be our primary backup big.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    So if a guy is on a rookie deal, he's considered a veteran? Sometimes those ESPN writers make me laugh.

    Besides Amir, you could potentially add any other Raptor 'veteran' to that list including Calderon, Kleiza and even Bargnani. If we landed a guy like Lillard.. it might make sense to just give him the reign and to then trade Jose for another veteran piece. If we get a SF like Barnes or even PJ3, that could make Kleiza expandable. I don't see Bargnani going anywhere.. but if we ended up drafting a PF like Sullinger or if Drummond drops, then maybe Bryan moves Bargnani for a scoring wing instead.

    So not sure why in particular Amir and DeMar were singled out since you could make the case for anyone on our team. Seems kind of like a pointless article, IMO.

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    The author of the piece stated clearly at the start that the people who could be ousted were being based on who Chad Ford had the team pegged to pick in his mock 7.0. In that particular mock he had the Raptors taking Dion Waiters which would of course impact DeRozan in some way.

    Throwing Amir in was probably just a way of making the article longer and to actually have something concrete (Valanciunas coming).

    I would agree though, DeRozan is hardly a vet, and Valanciunas coming over could affect Ed equally. My thoughts are that it could just as easily affect us resigning Gray (which I am an advocate for) and running with a big-man rotation of Val, Bargs, Ed, and Amir.

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    Heres the thing though, if BC does indeed end up drafting a Waiters or Rivers or whoever and they end up being better than Demar so they move him to the 3... We all know that wont work out very well. Then whats Demar's trade value?
    I think if a 2 gets drafted Demar gets traded sooner than later if you catch my drift.

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Heres the thing though, if BC does indeed end up drafting a Waiters or Rivers or whoever and they end up being better than Demar so they move him to the 3... We all know that wont work out very well. Then whats Demar's trade value?
    I think if a 2 gets drafted Demar gets traded sooner than later if you catch my drift.
    I disagree with the "sooner than later" part. I don't think a kid like Rivers, Waiters or Lamb is good enough to come in and takeover a starting SG role anytime soon. I really don't think the Raptors would push that role on one of them, given the fact that Valanciunas is likely to be the starting C; I doubt BC/DC have any desire to start 2 rookies.

    I'm not saying that DeRozan won't be traded. However, the only way I see him being traded anytime soon is in a blockbuster deal for a legit star player (ie: Gay), not because a 3rd tier rookie might have the potential to start in a few seasons. I think it's far more likely that DeRozan would be shifted to SF or the rookie would be kept as a 6th-man sparkplug off the bench.

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    Who / what has determined that a guy who was his college team's 6th man is a star in the making? Whille the argument could be made that any player drafted before #15 has potential , the reality is most don't. DD would be a senior this year if he had stayed. PLaying againist MEN . growth takes time. I think improvement defensively should be his major focus, also improving his rebound ave by 2-3 more per game would be more than enough to make him a valuable asset to the rebuild. Don't give into hype so easily.

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    All players coming in have to earn their way. If Waiters/Rivers/Lillard are drafted, and Valanciunas arrives, they aren't going start right away in DC's system, you're gonna have to earn those minutes. Demar Derozan wasn't horrible in playing the 3 position, his only real question was on defense when there are guys much much stronger than he is...

    Full Training Camp, Summer League, USA Select Team, Workout sessions with DC. THAN, we'll see. I don't think DC is going to want Demar to go anyways, he has some type of involvement in terms of players on his roster with BC. Remember, DC was very high on Demar before the season started, and still remained faithful in him. Plus, his teammates near the end of the season were pleased with Demar...

    There are going to be people by side to vouch for him, and only going into his 4th year, I'm not too worried about him going anywhere...

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    2 Things that may affect Demar:
    1. Full training camp under coach Casey (& hopefully some muscle during the summer);
    2. Training camp with select team might "rub off" (what it takes to be best) & improve his confidence & agresiveness.
    -in 3 plus years he has given zero indication that he does not like Toronto.
    Why would we do anything but support him & give him an opportunity to excell???????????????

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    I can't give up on DeMar just yet. He was horrible at the start of last season, but he gradually improved in several aspects of his game, including passing.

    Keep in mind, DeMar got most of his points in halfcourt situations this year, as opposed to Jay Triano's when everything was fastbreak points. The Raptors admitted they did not run too much last season, but they are looking forward to do it next year.

    I think he did fine, although his efficiency numbers were down, and awful. But really, if you have a line-up of Jose, DeMar, James Johnson, Ed Davis and Amir Johnson, who do you really have left to score?

    Defenses did not respect the rest of the Raps. For one, they were barely a threat to score, unless it's a dump off around the basket. Naturally, they will overload on DeMar, seeing he is the only threat to score.

    It took a while for him to adjust to a new offense, one that is predicated on halfcourt execution, executing it with below average NBA players for the most part, having someone like GARY FORBES run the point, the 2 D-leaguers, Aaron Gray, Jamal Magloire & James Johnson.

    We need talent. We got more problems than getting rid of one of the few capable players on the roster. I do believe in stats, and I have done a lot of metric analysis. But somehow, I can't give up on the guy, because he does bring a lot to the table in terms of mid-range game, post play, fast break scoring, shooting in traffic and getting to the free throw line.

    For all the talk that DeMar has to improve, other players NEED to step it up, so defenses can you know, actually respect their offense.
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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    I can't give up on DeMar just yet. He was horrible at the start of last season, but he gradually improved in several aspects of his game, including passing.

    Keep in mind, DeMar got most of his points in halfcourt situations this year, as opposed to Jay Triano's when everything was fastbreak points. The Raptors admitted they did not run too much last season, but they are looking forward to do it next year.

    I think he did fine, although his efficiency numbers were down, and awful. But really, if you have a line-up of Jose, DeMar, James Johnson, Ed Davis and Amir Johnson, who do you really have left to score?

    Defenses did not respect the rest of the Raps. For one, they were barely a threat to score, unless it's a dump off around the basket. Naturally, they will overload on DeMar, seeing he is the only threat to score.

    It took a while for him to adjust to a new offense, one that is predicated on halfcourt execution, executing it with below average NBA players for the most part, having someone like GARY FORBES run the point, the 2 D-leaguers, Aaron Gray, Jamal Magloire & James Johnson.

    We need talent. We got more problems than getting rid of one of the few capable players on the roster. I do believe in stats, and I have done a lot of metric analysis. But somehow, I can't give up on the guy, because he does bring a lot to the table in terms of mid-range game, post play, fast break scoring, shooting in traffic and getting to the free throw line.

    For all the talk that DeMar has to improve, other players NEED to step it up, so defenses can you know, actually respect their offense.
    +1 Totally forgot about the offensive system. I totally agree with you. Demar has been affected with a lot of things last season, but I thought he's done a really nice job. A diamond in the rough so to speak.

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