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Thread: Trade effects Mock Draft

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post

    Next - the trade is brutal for Wash. Its exactly what we were trying to do with JO and others (except we were much better at the time than the wiz are now. Overpaid vets are the LAST thing you want in the league today with the new salary cap rules. I dont disagree that the Wiz could use vets .. but there have to be better value options for them.
    i agree that mkg would be good on sacramento. we traded a first rounder for a no knee post player who had years remaining on his contract. they traded an expiring contract that costs the same for this year, had he played, as both the others. next year they now also have two expiring contracts and their team will show some growth and maturity.

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Many things ..

    First of all, the thought that SAC NEEDS a 5 is and gonna trade the pick if they cant get one makes no sense. To me, Cousins is arguably a top 10 post player in the league (or at least could be soon) .. so Im not sure 5 is even their greatest need - let alone that they would trade the pick if MKG is starring at them! MKG would be a great fit with Tyreke and Counsins - both of whom want to score only .. MKG slides in and does the intangibles.

    Next - the trade is brutal for Wash. Its exactly what we were trying to do with JO and others (except we were much better at the time than the wiz are now. Overpaid vets are the LAST thing you want in the league today with the new salary cap rules. I dont disagree that the Wiz could use vets .. but there have to be better value options for them.

    In the Raps context, if we would have done something like this, Id lose my shit. Its one thing to take an overpaid vet thats actually good and could arguably be a first scoring option (ie Gay) .. its totally another for one that is a journeyman at best (Okafor)....
    Many feel Cousins is a PF. I think that is debatable. I do think Drummond next to him would be a perfect match as, much like MKG, Drummond is not about scoring first.

    The difference between Washington with this trade and JO in Toronto is O'Neal made $20/$23M over his last 2 years of the contract. Also, Toronto already had a max contract player whereas Washington does not - although Nene is close. Toronto was comprised of predominantly veterans whereas Washington will have 9 players next year on a rookie contracts and none of those rookie contracts are up for an extension before Ariza and Okafor's contracts are up. Finally, at the time of the JO trade there was no such thing as the amnesty clause. Washington can amnesty Blatche which they hopefully will most certainly will do. Assuming WSH amnesties Blatche, they have about $53M (including #3) tied up in 11 players - this is nearly $4M less than if they had kept Lewis; they have about $55M tied up in 11 players for 2013-14; and they have just $26.5M on the books for 2014-15.

    Regarding Okafor to Gay, Washington and Toronto are in different situations. Washington has a player who is likely to be a franchise player in Wall and the possibility to draft a side kick (or better) in the draft with legit starters in Okafor/Nene/Ariza and solid reserves. Toronto does not have 'that guy', just a couple of side kicks, barely any legit starters, and good reserves.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i agree that mkg would be good on sacramento. we traded a first rounder for a no knee post player who had years remaining on his contract. they traded an expiring contract that costs the same for this year, had he played, as both the others. next year they now also have two expiring contracts and their team will show some growth and maturity.
    Good point.

  4. #64
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    And here's a new trade that may effect the draft:

    Ben Gordon to the Bobcats... don't know if it makes sense but I can't see them getting Gordon and Beal.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/80...ons-ben-gordon

  5. #65
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    And here's a new trade that may effect the draft:

    Ben Gordon to the Bobcats... don't know if it makes sense but I can't see them getting Gordon and Beal.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/80...ons-ben-gordon
    I assume that trade opens the door to Charlotte taking Robinson or Barnes, or possibly doing the rumored deal with Cleveland (#2 for #4 & #24), which would allow Cleveland to pick Beal/MKG at #2 and Charlotte to pick Barnes at #4. I can't see Cleveland moving up to pick anyone other than Beal, since it's likely that Washington would pick Beal or Robinson at #3, and Cleveland doesn't really need Robinson after picking Tristan Thompson last year.

    If Beal goes #2 (regardless who picks him), I wonder who Washington would pick at #3? Robinson would be behind Nene. Barnes/MKG could get lots of playing time behind Ariza, although MKG seems like an Ariza clone. Drummond would be behind Okafor, though they might like his upside and the fact that he wouldn't need to start right away. Lillard would be behind Wall. Robinson, Drummond or Barnes, most likely.

    If Charlotte dropped to #4, they'd probably be happy taking any of Barnes, MKG or Robinson.

    It's after #4, where things get really interesting... so many draft options at 5/6/7/8, with many rumors flying around involving each of those 4 picks.

    ---

    The only thing I would be willing to bet on right now, with regards to picks #2-8, is that Beal will go top-3. Other than that, I think it's a total crap shoot.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jun 27th, 2012 at 02:53 AM.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I assume that trade opens the door to Charlotte taking Robinson or Barnes, or possibly doing the rumored deal with Cleveland (#2 for #4 & #24), which would allow Cleveland to pick Beal/MKG at #2 and Charlotte to pick Barnes at #4. I can't see Cleveland moving up to pick anyone other than Beal, since it's likely that Washington would pick Beal or Robinson at #3, and Cleveland doesn't really need Robinson after picking Tristan Thompson last year.

    If Beal goes #2 (regardless who picks him), I wonder who Washington would pick at #3? Robinson would be behind Nene. Barnes/MKG could get lots of playing time behind Ariza, although MKG seems like an Ariza clone. Drummond would be behind Okafor, though they might like his upside and the fact that he wouldn't need to start right away. Lillard would be behind Wall. Robinson, Drummond or Barnes, most likely.

    If Charlotte dropped to #4, they'd probably be happy taking any of Barnes, MKG or Robinson.

    It's after #4, where things get really interesting... so many draft options at 5/6/7/8, with many rumors flying around involving each of those 4 picks.

    ---

    The only thing I would be willing to bet on right now, with regards to picks #2-8, is that Beal will go top-3. Other than that, I think it's a total crap shoot.
    The issue surrounding Cleveland and Charlotte appears to be the Cats want #4 and #24 but the Cavs are only offering #4 and #33. I have a feeling Cleveland has their eye on someone late first round and does not want to give him up. If they truly want Beal with 100% certainty, they'll make the trade.

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    At #8 Toronto should be able to get their hands on either Lillard, Waiters or Drummond. And I wouldn't scoff at the idea of drafting Drummond. A pairing of Drummond and JV would be formidable in a couple of years and would eventually make Bargnani and nice trading chip which could be used to bring in a scoring wing.

    It might actually be the best move for the long term of the franchise to solidify the front court. Right now there are no positions on the team which really seem solid going forward.

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    At #8 Toronto should be able to get their hands on either Lillard, Waiters or Drummond. And I wouldn't scoff at the idea of drafting Drummond. A pairing of Drummond and JV would be formidable in a couple of years and would eventually make Bargnani and nice trading chip which could be used to bring in a scoring wing.

    It might actually be the best move for the long term of the franchise to solidify the front court. Right now there are no positions on the team which really seem solid going forward.
    You are assuming Drummond is not a bust and suddenly has a passion to make the most of his abilities.

    But in theory I do agree and here is the big reason why:

    ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo

    Of the 125 players who defended at least 75 post-up plays this season, Andre Drummond allowed the fewest points per play. #NBADraft
    Bargnani might evolve in to a 6th man. Jason Terry was 9 years in the league before he was consistently in that role. Lamar Odom 10 years. Antawn Jamison performed the role 5 years in to his career and then did it again with Cleveland in '10-11. I don't think Drummond would be ready to start for a couple of years which might coincide with Bargnani evolving in to a 6th man. Or it could be as you said Bargnani becomes a trade chip. Who knows?
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Wed Jun 27th, 2012 at 09:12 AM. Reason: added Hollinger retweet

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    For those looking for more draft picks, here is a possibility:

    http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...lks-lamar-odom

    Would you take Williams to get 17 from Dallas? I'd also look for the rights to Nick Calathes.

    Williams might also be a nice chip to s&t with Phoenix.

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I think even if Drummond is a bust in the sense that he doesn't reach his potential he should still be a solid player on the defensive end. At worst a really athletic Jason Collins type guy that can be a presence in the paint and can help anchor a defense even if he can't do it on his own.

    It's the combination of him and JV that interests me because though he might not be able to do it himself the tandem of two near 7 footers that have a bruising type of game can together anchor the defense for years to come....and that's IF Drummond is a bust. If JV and Drummond reach half their potential each, Toronto would still have a solid front court near the equivilant (imo) of the Oakley and Davis combination...except these guys are younger, hungrier and in time bigger than that duo. All we need is an elite scoring wing and we have something resembling our glory days. Imo.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I think even if Drummond is a bust in the sense that he doesn't reach his potential he should still be a solid player on the defensive end. At worst a really athletic Jason Collins type guy that can be a presence in the paint and can help anchor a defense even if he can't do it on his own.

    It's the combination of him and JV that interests me because though he might not be able to do it himself the tandem of two near 7 footers that have a bruising type of game can together anchor the defense for years to come....and that's IF Drummond is a bust. If JV and Drummond reach half their potential each, Toronto would still have a solid front court near the equivilant (imo) of the Oakley and Davis combination...except these guys are younger, hungrier and in time bigger than that duo. All we need is an elite scoring wing and we have something resembling our glory days. Imo.
    Hungrier - no question with JV.

    That is the absolute question surrounding Drummond.

    JV may not work out but it won't be for lack of effort or work on his part. I don't feel confident in saying the same about Drummond.

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Why did Wash. do that? Getting Okafor when have Nene...and all that salary? NO did really well (isnt Lewis an expiring contract) and they didnt have to give up their 10th. Just goes to show there is always someone to take what you are selling. The draft is getting more interesting each day.
    The Wizards have an image to repair.

    I live 110 miles from Washington and what I see, hear, and read in the local media is how fu**ed up are the Wizards as an organization. They went through Michael Jordan as a VP of basketball operation, guns in the locker room, and a bunch of dysfunctional clowns on the court. The trade makes a lot of sense from my perspective as the Wizards will improve in the standings and the players will present themselves much more like professionals than last year's crew.

    Goodwill from the fans and the community is important.

  13. #73
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    If Drummond is available, YOU TAKE HIM AND YOU KEEP HIM. Why would you trade him right away? Here we have a potential Dwight Howard in the making; and you're going to trade him?

    Keep him, play him, watch him develop. If he's trash, pout, complain, demand BC's firing, and move on to the next one.

  14. #74
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    If Drummond is available, YOU TAKE HIM AND YOU KEEP HIM. Why would you trade him right away? Here we have a potential Dwight Howard in the making; and you're going to trade him?

    Keep him, play him, watch him develop. If he's trash, pout, complain, demand BC's firing, and move on to the next one.
    If Drummond is available, YOU TAKE HIM AND YOU TRADE HIM. Why would you keep him anyway? Here we have a potential Kwame Brown in the making; and you're going to keep him?

    Trade him, have another team play him, watch him develop. If he's good, pout, complain, demand BC's firing, and move on to the next one.



    Seems that no matter how it goes the last sentence is the likely outcome.

  15. #75
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If Drummond is available, YOU TAKE HIM AND YOU TRADE HIM. Why would you keep him anyway? Here we have a potential Kwame Brown in the making; and you're going to keep him?

    Trade him, have another team play him, watch him develop. If he's good, pout, complain, demand BC's firing, and move on to the next one.



    Seems that no matter how it goes the last sentence is the likely outcome.
    Touché

  16. #76
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If Drummond is available, YOU TAKE HIM AND YOU TRADE HIM. Why would you keep him anyway? Here we have a potential Kwame Brown in the making; and you're going to keep him?

    Trade him, have another team play him, watch him develop. If he's good, pout, complain, demand BC's firing, and move on to the next one.



    Seems that no matter how it goes the last sentence is the likely outcome.
    I was going to point out Indiana's Center, but then I read your last sentence and realized, "your damned if you do..."

  17. #77
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    What are the odds of Drummond actually developing in a situation where he's basically guaranteed nothing but garbage minutes (with Bargnani and Jonas firmly etched into our starting front court)?

    I don't see the point of drafting a kid as raw as Drummond if we don't have a 2-3 year development plan for him...which includes a lot of "trial by fire". Just ask Alabi how hard it is to crack a rotation with the front court already set in stone.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #78
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    Alabi was 5 years older than Drummond when we got him so I'm not sure he's a good example. Both Darko and Kwame are still in the NBA. Big athletic 5s have value even if they don't develop. The younger the better. If we draft him and he shows signs of developing we move Bargs, Ed, or Amir...if he doesn't develop we move him for an asset. If our choice pick is up AND Drummond do we take him? No way, but there is value in taking him.

  19. #79
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if the age difference between Alabi and Drummond is relevant in this comparison. Both theoretically need a lot minutes to improve, without those minutes being available.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #80
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    For development purposes you're right. But for value to other teams, if they think we just handled him wrong I think age matters. It gives them more time.

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