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Thread: Raptors Uniquely Positioned to Trade for 2nd Pick

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Does Thomas playing better under Casey have a higher ceiling than either Davis or Amir? I just don't see it.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #22
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    I don't think Charlotte would trade with us unless we give them the 8th pick. As much as they want to give up Tyrus Thomas, if they do this trade, they are still not better than they were last season. The trade you have given, is a Raptors fan's wet dream
    I totally agree. I think Charlotte would say no to a deal without #8, but I think Toronto would say no to a deal with #8 AND Thomas' contract (unless perhaps Amir went the other way, to make salary much more balanced). I doubt a deal will get done between Charlotte & Toronto for exactly that reason.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What bad contracts do you consider the Raptors to have?

    Bargnani is debatable but I would say no.
    Amir is not as bad as people think. It is not guaranteed for the final yaer and was never the 5 years/$34M that initially was reported.
    JJ, DeMar, ED still on rookie contracts.
    Kleiza is debatable. Personally I think his contract is reasonable as an 8-9 guy off the bench who can play SF/PF and shoot the 3.
    Jose's was bad but with one year left and a productive season last year, not so much.

    I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious who you think one of TOR's bad contracts are.
    u basicly just named them for me.. although debatable Jose,Amir or Klieza would be in that catagory for me..there not as bad as tyrus & his deal but atleast it would clear some cap space out in the process.

    id prefer to just pick 8 or trade it all together for proven talent. i was just humoring the idea for a second..LOL

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    So if we have to include the pick to make it work for Charlotte, and have to include Amir to make it work for us, then what would the squad look like potentially next year. I'm assuming we land Steve Nash. We either deal Calderon to Chicago for Korver + Brewer + Future 1st (Both are unguaranteed contracts and could be cut for cheap if we want), or amnesty him (probably some more scenarios out there). The team then looks like this.

    PG: Nash, Machado (37th pick)
    SG: DeRozan, Forbes
    SF: MKG, JJ, Kleiza
    PF: Bargs, Davis, Kleiza/JJ
    C: Jonas, Thomas, Gray/Alabi

    Alternatively, put Beal in at starting SG and slide DeRozan to starting SF. We'd still have significant cap space to go after another or several FA.

  5. #25
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I want no part of Thomas and that massive deal he has.
    To mean this isn't a no brainer rejection. The Raptors could potentially land a superstar in the trade. TT does have three years left though... This all comes down to what you feel the net impact will be.

  6. #26
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    There's a massive difference between Luke Walton and Ty Thomas. Walton is a mature, team player that knew his role on the team. Thomas had an altercation with his coach in April. Even his own teammates question is maturity. All of that headache for Kidd-Gilchrist? No thanks.

    And again, for whatever reason it's failing on you is that Charlotte is in dire of big men but they want to give him away. How does that not strike you as alarming? It means that the kid has real issues. Why should we take that on, and at that salary to boot?
    Well then it seems that we disagree.

  7. #27
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    I think there is no way Charlotte would go for any of the options, therefore I disagree that the "Raptors Uniquely Positioned to Trade for 2nd Pick".

    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm

    First, assuming that all player options and qualifying offers are made, plus the salary of the number 2 pick still puts the Cats at under $50 mil for the upcoming season...clearly a team not in need of cap relief.

    Second, if they decide to get rid of Thomas' salary, they can easily amnesty him. Because the Cats have not used their amnesty provision yet, meaning they could easily use it on Thomas. The only other logical salary to be amnestied in the Cats roster is Diop who has an expiring $7 mil. Everyone else is on their rookie contracts.

    Third, if they decide to amnesty Diop and package Thomas with the #2, there is no way they would do this without picking up a lottery pick in return. This eliminates options 4 and 5. The Bobcats are in a rebuilding mode and are in need of draft picks as evidenced by the trade with Detroit when they picked up a future first rounder. The trade also shows they are not in need of cap relief having acquired a larger and lengthier contract (Gordon's) in exchange for an expring one (Magette's). But instead, they are using their cap space to acquire draft picks.

    Lastly, even if Toronto sends them the 8th pick in return, it still does not make sense for the Bobcats. As have often been said, this is a 5 player draft (Davis, Robinson, Beal, MKG and Barnes), 6 if you include Drummond as some would argue. Why would the Bobcats drop to #8 and lose a chance to pick any of these guys???

    As Colangelo stated yesterday, dangling top picks "creates a bidding war" , which I believe does happen. This puts a team dangling the pick in a position of power. I think the most logical trade partner for the Cats would be Cleveland and their #4 and #24 picks. The Cavs would ensure themselves of picking MKG/Beal and the Cats would still have the opportunity of picking Robinson while acquiring another lottery pick. If the Cavs agree to take Thomas' contract instead of giving up #24, it would be a bonus for the Cats.

    Please be gentle...first time poster

  8. #28
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    I would take TT's contract to get MKG. In a heartbeat. JV and MKG could an awesome defensive pairing. Dude competes. And really you would only have to deal with TT's contract for a couple years. That's awesome trade bait on the third (ykno when JV and MKG start getting awesome).
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    I thought one of the great things about the cap space was the ability to take on a bad contract in order to grab a pick or move up?

    Thomas' contract sucks but this is supposed to be a rebuilding team anyways. It would be an expiring contract after 2 years during which the young guys are developing anyways and would end right before Val and MKG (or whoever) would be extended. Makes absolute sense to me to take it if it means the #2 pick.

    If Thomas is useful, great. If not who cares. Bench him, buy him out, give him the Blatche treatment and send him home. He's just the box that comes with the ring.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    I would take TT's contract to get MKG. In a heartbeat. JV and MKG could an awesome defensive pairing. Dude competes. And really you would only have to deal with TT's contract for a couple years. That's awesome trade bait on the third (ykno when JV and MKG start getting awesome).
    In order to imrpove the team drastically for many years we have to make bold moves.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    There is a possibility that TT becomes bearable and if MKG turns out to be the player we need - then we hit gold. The worse case scenario is TT continues to suck while MKG turns out to be just good defender without a jumper...I think it is worth the risk.

  12. #32
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    With so many people being opposed to the Raptors targeting a good young SF on a big contract (ie: Gay, Deng, Iguodala), I'm surprised there is so much support for an acquisition of Thomas, even if it nets the #2 pick (assuming #8 would have to go to Charlotte).

    Option 1: keep #8
    --> add approx $2M salary, leaving approx $12M cap space available

    Option 2: trade #8 pick & assets (ie: Davis & JJ) to Memphis for Gay & #25
    --> add approx $12M salary, leaving approx $2M cap space available

    Option 3: trade #8 pick & assets (ie: Davis) to Charlotte for Thomas & #2
    --> add approx $10M salary, leaving approx $4M cap space available


    For me, I would much rather have Gay & #25 & $2M cap space, than Thomas & #2 & $4M cap space!


    * all cap space numbers are based on BC renouncing all restricted free agents... even if he didn't, the relative numbers would still be a fair basis for comparison
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jun 27th, 2012 at 04:46 PM.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    If Lillard is off the board, I'm secretly hoping we hold onto our 37th pick and use it on Machado.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    If Bryan swung that deal with Charlotte.. they would be drafting Barnes at #2, not MKG. I think Bryan likes Barnes better than anyone else from 2-7. Not a factual statement, just a hunch.

    I would not trade #8 for Thomas and Barnes.

  15. #35
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    I really would like Beal/MKG/Barnes even if that means taking on TTs contract. He has some off court issues but is a great defensive player. Plus, his final year at 9 Mil can be trade bait, and we could land some fringe all star players on teams that want to start over again and want cap flexibility that year (IE. philly this year with Iggy)


    However, i really do not see Charlotte trading outside the top 4. They need to win and win fast. They are a horrible team that needs to add talent and i just don't think that we can offer them any talent on our roaster, maybe Davis, and the picks at 8 are not going to help the team right away. 8 is really a hit or miss, with guys like drummond/lilard/rivers.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Why doesn't Charlotte just amnesty him?
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  17. #37
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    No, getting MKG is NOT worth taking on 27M over the next 3 years for an 8-10th man. That's crazy talk. You're suggesting paying approx. 12M/year for MKG, because Thomas is a scrub who has no role on this team.
    +1. Co-sign.
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  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Why doesn't Charlotte just amnesty him?
    That might be a last resort. But if someone is dying for that 2nd pick, getting rid of Thomas seems like a very opportunistic move.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #39
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    So if we have to include the pick to make it work for Charlotte, and have to include Amir to make it work for us, then what would the squad look like potentially next year. I'm assuming we land Steve Nash. We either deal Calderon to Chicago for Korver + Brewer + Future 1st (Both are unguaranteed contracts and could be cut for cheap if we want), or amnesty him (probably some more scenarios out there). The team then looks like this.

    PG: Nash, Machado (37th pick)
    SG: DeRozan, Forbes
    SF: MKG, JJ, Kleiza
    PF: Bargs, Davis, Kleiza/JJ
    C: Jonas, Thomas, Gray/Alabi

    Alternatively, put Beal in at starting SG and slide DeRozan to starting SF. We'd still have significant cap space to go after another or several FA.
    Building on this. Assuming we give Nash $10 million per year, we'd have $52.3 million against the cap and 12 players under contract, leaving 3 roster spots to fill, and $5.7 million to spend on it until we reach the cap. I believe we then have a mid-level of some sort as well. I say split it and give 2 vets 1 year deals for around $2.5 million, like we gave to Gray. Giving it all to an even better FA is fine with me too. Can always fill the last few roster spots with min contracts.
    We're not that hamstrung financially in the future either. In 2013/14 we'd have $45.1 million in committed contracts for 8 players, with another draft pick coming, so we could still be players in free agency (Swap Harden and DeRozan in a S&T?!?). I'm getting ahead of myself. Just trying to show that we wouldn't be that financially hamstrung by Thomas contract in the future, and we could always package him up with some combination of Davis, DD, or JJ in a future trade.

    If you think a future core of JV, MKG, and Dwayne Casey could be built around, and I for one think it could work, then this is a power move to be a real championship contender in 2015/16 when JV and MKG are on the final year of their rookie deals and all the current contracts are over. We could have built a defensive monster of a team by then. On the way we can have a fun playoff team with Captain Canada.

  20. #40
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Does Thomas playing better under Casey have a higher ceiling than either Davis or Amir? I just don't see it.
    No, but you take a downgrade at backup C/PF for a huge upgrade at SF (now and into the future).

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