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Thread: Raptors Uniquely Positioned to Trade for 2nd Pick

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Why doesn't Charlotte just amnesty him?
    Because Charlotte is not a rich team. If they amnesty Thomas, he will probably clear waivers, so Charlotte will be stuck paying $26 million over the next 3 years for nothing. They probably can't afford to do that.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    All the crying about "the Raps can't even tank properly" and now no one sees significant value in #2 over #8. What's up with that? The Raps still wind up with flexibility, with cap room and the opportunity to have " the player who would have been #2 in this years draft (JV)" and the player who IS #2.

    Who cares about the salary. Especially is there is a player going back.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Tyrus Thomas. Ha, ha, ha...
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  4. #44
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    All the crying about "the Raps can't even tank properly" and now no one sees significant value in #2 over #8. What's up with that? The Raps still wind up with flexibility, with cap room and the opportunity to have " the player who would have been #2 in this years draft (JV)" and the player who IS #2.

    Who cares about the salary. Especially is there is a player going back.
    Giving up #8 and swapping Davis for Thomas ($6M more next season) would significantly limit the subsequent moves the Raptors could make and all but assures they won't be able to add a veteran SF (ie: Gay). It would be one thing if Thomas was an expiring, but he's on the books for the next 3 years at an increasing amount each year! That hurts short and long term roster flexibility for a useless player.

    Plus, who would the Raptors draft at #2 anyway? Beal seems to be the guy teams are trading up to get, but that would be redundant with DeRozan (who I don't think can play SF). The Raps would still need to address the starting SF position, and they'd be significantly limited thanks to Thomas' contract to do so. Barnes & MKG would likely be available at #4/5, so there would be no point moving up to #2 to get one of them. The Raps would be better off trying to swing a deal with Cleveland or Sacramento.

    I just don't see Toronto putting that much value on Beal. If they want Barnes/MKG, they likely won't need to move up to #2 to get either of them.

    I think any talk of Toronto being involved in trade talks surround the #2 pick is either as a 3rd/4th team hoping to add an asset to help facilitate a deal, or is yet another smoke screen.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Rookie Garbo's Avatar
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    True, and with all of this talk of Nash signing in Toronto I feel as if Thomas could be used well. If we had #2 I'd be far more interested in Beal than MKG.

    Nash / Calderon / Mchadoo?
    Derozan / Beal / Bayless
    JJ / Kleiza
    Bargnani / Amir / Davis
    Valenciunas / Thomas / (other #2 pick)

    A package of Derozan, Davis, JJ and next years first round could be used for a Gay or an Igoudala or a Josh Smith. We'd have big money locked in on Amir and Thomas but it would be off in three years when we need to resign our young guys. Not to mention the Calderon trade that would come in all of this. I'd jump at it. Swing for the fences baby

  6. #46
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Giving up #8 and swapping Davis for Thomas ($6M more next season) would significantly limit the subsequent moves the Raptors could make and all but assures they won't be able to add a veteran SF (ie: Gay). It would be one thing if Thomas was an expiring, but he's on the books for the next 3 years at an increasing amount each year! That hurts short and long term roster flexibility for a useless player.

    Plus, who would the Raptors draft at #2 anyway? Beal seems to be the guy teams are trading up to get, but that would be redundant with DeRozan (who I don't think can play SF). The Raps would still need to address the starting SF position, and they'd be significantly limited thanks to Thomas' contract to do so. Barnes & MKG would likely be available at #4/5, so there would be no point moving up to #2 to get one of them. The Raps would be better off trying to swing a deal with Cleveland or Sacramento.

    I just don't see Toronto putting that much value on Beal. If they want Barnes/MKG, they likely won't need to move up to #2 to get either of them.

    I think any talk of Toronto being involved in trade talks surround the #2 pick is either as a 3rd/4th team hoping to add an asset to help facilitate a deal, or is yet another smoke screen.
    Thank you for saving my sanity.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    Well you'd have to think about it, we ARE getting MKG in return. That is reason enough to take the deal IMO.
    Unless MKG is the consensus to go top 2. Your point is completely irrelevent.

  8. #48
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Garbo wrote: View Post
    True, and with all of this talk of Nash signing in Toronto I feel as if Thomas could be used well. If we had #2 I'd be far more interested in Beal than MKG.

    Nash / Calderon / Mchadoo?
    Derozan / Beal / Bayless
    JJ / Kleiza
    Bargnani / Amir / Davis
    Valenciunas / Thomas / (other #2 pick)

    A package of Derozan, Davis, JJ and next years first round could be used for a Gay or an Igoudala or a Josh Smith. We'd have big money locked in on Amir and Thomas but it would be off in three years when we need to resign our young guys. Not to mention the Calderon trade that would come in all of this. I'd jump at it. Swing for the fences baby
    I don't believe you could absorb Thomas' contract, re-sign Bayless and sign Nash, unless you're giving him the lle. I wonder if he'd sign for that.

  9. #49
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't believe you could absorb Thomas' contract, re-sign Bayless and sign Nash, unless you're giving him the lle. I wonder if he'd sign for that.
    You're correct. We would not resign Bayless. We'd also have to get rid of Jose through trade or Amnesty (Or amnesty Amir). We also might be sending Charlotte either of Amir or Davis, so subtract them out too.

  10. #50
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Garbo wrote: View Post
    True, and with all of this talk of Nash signing in Toronto I feel as if Thomas could be used well. If we had #2 I'd be far more interested in Beal than MKG.

    Nash / Calderon / Mchadoo?
    Derozan / Beal / Bayless
    JJ / Kleiza
    Bargnani / Amir / Davis
    Valenciunas / Thomas / (other #2 pick)

    A package of Derozan, Davis, JJ and next years first round could be used for a Gay or an Igoudala or a Josh Smith. We'd have big money locked in on Amir and Thomas but it would be off in three years when we need to resign our young guys. Not to mention the Calderon trade that would come in all of this. I'd jump at it. Swing for the fences baby
    Are you assuming the Raps wouldn't have to give #8 to Charlotte?

    So it would be something like this:
    1) 3 team deal: DeRozan & JJ & #8 to Memphis, Davis & #25 & #37 & TPE to Charlotte, Gay & Thomas & #2 to Toronto
    2) trade to dump Calderon's salary
    3) Bayless & #56 to Phoenix, Nash to Toronto
    4) draft Beal @ #2

    LINEUP
    C: Valanciunas, ???
    PF: Bargnani, Amir, Thomas
    SF: Gay, Kleiza
    SG: Beal, Forbes
    PG: Nash, ???

    - would be about $6M over the cap already
    - still need to fill backup PG & backup C (could do so in the mystery Calderon deal, pushing them further over the cap)
    - MLE would still be available, but could push them close to the luxury tax threshold


    I really don't see Charlotte doing the deal without getting #8. I also don't see Memphis doing a deal for Gay without getting a top-10 pick in this year's deep draft. It's a great idea, but there's really no way a stud SF (ie: Gay) and Nash could both possibly be added to a Raptor team that takes on Thomas' contract (unless they amnesty Amir, but that's a lot of cash to pay and Thomas is a below-average backup PF).

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    i wouldn't even take tyrus thomas for free

  12. #52
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    Quote Garbo wrote: View Post
    True, and with all of this talk of Nash signing in Toronto I feel as if Thomas could be used well. If we had #2 I'd be far more interested in Beal than MKG.

    Nash / Calderon / Mchadoo?
    Derozan / Beal / Bayless
    JJ / Kleiza
    Bargnani / Amir / Davis
    Valenciunas / Thomas / (other #2 pick)

    A package of Derozan, Davis, JJ and next years first round could be used for a Gay or an Igoudala or a Josh Smith. We'd have big money locked in on Amir and Thomas but it would be off in three years when we need to resign our young guys. Not to mention the Calderon trade that would come in all of this. I'd jump at it. Swing for the fences baby
    Trading DeRozan, Davis, JJ, and a future first for Gay would be awesome. Nash, Beal, Gay, Bargs, JV. That's a lineup that could do some damage in the next few years.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Unless MKG is the consensus to go top 2. Your point is completely irrelevent.
    Yeah, exactly. And where's the guarantee that ANYONE chosen at #2 this year is going to be worth $12M/year as a rookie??? Beal, MKG, Barnes... none of them, IMO, is a guaranteed star.

    IF Colangelo really wanted someone like MKG or Beal, he's better off waiting and trying to trade for them using the flexibility and assets he already has, vs. taking on the Thomas albatross and giving away half his flexibility, all for... a rookie who hasn't proven he can score in the halfcourt (MKG), one who hasn't proven he can run a team (Beal), or one with similarly unproven talents (name anyone other than Anthony Davis)...

    I think the waiting for the draft is making people crazy.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  14. #54
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Are you assuming the Raps wouldn't have to give #8 to Charlotte?

    So it would be something like this:
    1) 3 team deal: DeRozan & JJ & #8 to Memphis, Davis & #25 & #37 & TPE to Charlotte, Gay & Thomas & #2 to Toronto
    2) trade to dump Calderon's salary
    3) Bayless & #56 to Phoenix, Nash to Toronto
    4) draft Beal @ #2

    LINEUP
    C: Valanciunas, ???
    PF: Bargnani, Amir, Thomas
    SF: Gay, Kleiza
    SG: Beal, Forbes
    PG: Nash, ???

    - would be about $6M over the cap already
    - still need to fill backup PG & backup C (could do so in the mystery Calderon deal, pushing them further over the cap)
    - MLE would still be available, but could push them close to the luxury tax threshold


    I really don't see Charlotte doing the deal without getting #8. I also don't see Memphis doing a deal for Gay without getting a top-10 pick in this year's deep draft. It's a great idea, but there's really no way a stud SF (ie: Gay) and Nash could both possibly be added to a Raptor team that takes on Thomas' contract (unless they amnesty Amir, but that's a lot of cash to pay and Thomas is a below-average backup PF).
    I think Memphis would be willing to do a deal that included a future first. They are screwed cap wise with their entire cap ($58 million) tied up in 4 players (Randolph, Gay, Gasol, and Conley). If they trade Gay for DeRozan, JJ, Davis, and Raps first next year, they free up $8.5 million right away and get to test out 3 young players with potential on rookie contracts that will be restricted in a year (or 2 in Davis case). They also get a decent (likely mid teens) draft pick next year.
    Memphis would clearly much rather trade Randolph, but that is just not going to happen, so they may be forced to deal Gay and take the best offer they can get.

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I think Memphis would be willing to do a deal that included a future first. They are screwed cap wise with their entire cap ($58 million) tied up in 4 players (Randolph, Gay, Gasol, and Conley). If they trade Gay for DeRozan, JJ, Davis, and Raps first next year, they free up $8.5 million right away and get to test out 3 young players with potential on rookie contracts that will be restricted in a year (or 2 in Davis case). They also get a decent (likely mid teens) draft pick next year.
    Memphis would clearly much rather trade Randolph, but that is just not going to happen, so they may be forced to deal Gay and take the best offer they can get.
    if the raps were to deal Derozan,Davis,JJ & 2013 1st rnd pick for gay BC would need to have his head checked out for alziemers or some other brain disease.. Gay isnt worth all that.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Rookie Usagi_yo_Jimbo's Avatar
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    We dont need the number 2 pick! Dont we pretty much have the consensus #2 pick (jonas) joining our team this season? I actually think that not only will he challenge Davis for rookie of the year, he actually has a chance to win it. Plus, Tyrus Thomas!? Really!? Tyrus Thomas!?! Not worth it at all.

  17. #57
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I would do this trade...also I eat paint

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Rookie Garbo's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I would do this trade...also I eat paint
    lol

    I didn't mean to propose a trade that should be taken too seriously, I was just thinking out loud.
    If management believes in Beal (do they? I really do..), than they should do what it takes to get that talent on their team. We have Valenciunas coming over, so let's get this core together sooner than later. Bargnani, Val and Beal is a great core to start with and if you can bring in a veteran like Gay/Igoudala or Nash than you've really got something special. I genuinely think it's a realistic dream. Over the cap? Definitely, but amnesties and trades exist, and I didn't feel like mapping that out. My attention span wont allow me to read anything longer than the single paragraph responses, let alone write them.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Why doesn't Charlotte just amnesty him?
    Because Michael Jordan is a very cheap owner #truestory
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

  20. #60
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    Rick Bonnell: Just spoke with Tyrus Thomas' agent: Tyrus training in Texas and he has gained 20 much-needed pounds to 240. A good sign. Twitter

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