View Poll Results: (When) Should the Raps fire BC?

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  • Immediately

    4 7.69%
  • If we lose out on Nash and finish in the lotto next year

    11 21.15%
  • I still trust him, don't foresee a firing.

    37 71.15%
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Thread: Disgruntled Fans 2012: Extended stinkfest? (#296)

  1. #221
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    Quote Katman wrote: View Post
    Where did option 3 state that we would be in the lottery again? Pissed because no one agrees with you?
    Option 2 says fire him if we are in the lotto again. I wouldn't say im pissed. Just totally astonished. 4 straight lotteries and willing to give $55 million to Nash/Fields and people are STILL drinking the cool aid. wow. just wow.

  2. #222
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    5 years and zero playoff games is not worthy of firing the GM?
    6 playoff games

  3. #223
    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    No kool aid (and that's a disgusting reference BTW given how many people died). MLSE has the mind control machine turned on, it's mostly focused on the Leafs, but there is a little spill over.

  4. #224
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    6 playoff games
    That was a hypothetical, assuming we miss the playoffs again this upcoming year. Even if you factor in the playoff appearance in his first season, his track record is still pathetic and the support shown here is still completely dumbfounding.

  5. #225
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    That was a hypothetical, assuming we miss the playoffs again this upcoming year. Even if you factor in the playoff appearance in his first season, his track record is still pathetic and the support shown here is still completely dumbfounding.
    oh sure, any point is provable when you ignore the facts that disprove your facts

  6. #226
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    oh sure, any point is provable when you ignore the facts that disprove your facts
    This

  7. #227
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    This thread totally back fired on you. You were probably thinking we all wanted him fired

  8. #228
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    oh sure, any point is provable when you ignore the facts that disprove your facts
    I'm quite honestly confused here. If we miss the playoffs next year, that will make it 5 years with no playoffs, is that a correct statement or am i confused? That was the original point. If we screw up this summer and miss the playoffs again, that makes 5 years/zero playoffs/1 GM, and he should be fired (option 2 in the poll). What fact am I ignoring? I don't get your post.

  9. #229
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    This thread totally back fired on you. You were probably thinking we all wanted him fired
    Nah I understood from reading the board that most people here were all-in with Heinsohn-level homerism. I was curious to see the numbers of people actually willing to accept this continuous futility. I think these results will be hilarious when we are debating who to take in the 2013 lottery and comparing Nash to Hakeem.

  10. #230
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I'm quite honestly confused here. If we miss the playoffs next year, that will make it 5 years with no playoffs, is that a correct statement or am i confused? That was the original point. If we screw up this summer and miss the playoffs again, that makes 5 years/zero playoffs/1 GM, and he should be fired (option 2 in the poll). What fact am I ignoring? I don't get your post.
    if we miss the playoffs next year, that will make it 5 years....... in the 6.5 years BC has been here.

    you're choosing to ignore an entire year.

    i get it. you're trying to make a point, and "ZERO" is much more melodramatic than "NOT MANY"

    it's also not true, in any context other than the one you're trying to make.

    by your logic, anybody who chooses to argue against you can easily decide "i'm just going to ignore the post bosh years since bosh screwed the franchise"... they would be falsely making statements as well

  11. #231
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I'm quite honestly confused here. If we miss the playoffs next year, that will make it 5 years with no playoffs, is that a correct statement or am i confused? That was the original point. If we screw up this summer and miss the playoffs again, that makes 5 years/zero playoffs/1 GM, and he should be fired (option 2 in the poll). What fact am I ignoring? I don't get your post.
    Option 3 pickers (me) are completely assuming we don't miss the playoffs, therefore we are happy to put our trust in the man.

  12. #232
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    if we miss the playoffs next year, that will make it 5 years....... in the 6.5 years BC has been here.

    you're choosing to ignore an entire year.

    i get it. you're trying to make a point, and "ZERO" is much more melodramatic than "NOT MANY"

    it's also not true, in any context other than the one you're trying to make.

    by your logic, anybody who chooses to argue against you can easily decide "i'm just going to ignore the post bosh years since bosh screwed the franchise"... they would be falsely making statements as well
    I'm just taking the 4 most recent years and extrapolating to next summer. Even if you include the fact that was lost in the first round in BC's first full year, that doesn't come close to justifying his continued employment after 1/2 a decade of futility.

    Bosh's leaving is on BC's shoulders. Bosh walked on Colangelo's watch. We got nothing for Bosh with BC steering the ship.

  13. #233
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I'm quite honestly confused here. If we miss the playoffs next year, that will make it 5 years with no playoffs, is that a correct statement or am i confused? That was the original point. If we screw up this summer and miss the playoffs again, that makes 5 years/zero playoffs/1 GM, and he should be fired (option 2 in the poll). What fact am I ignoring? I don't get your post.
    Being a good GM isn't only about making the playoffs, nor is it fair to evaluate solely on that goal this offseason. He inherited a team that was building around Bosh, who wasn't a true franchise cornerstone. Once Bosh left, the true rebuild started and I would argue that BC has done a good job building the team the past few seasons. BC added a couple decent draft picks so far this offeason. Going after Nash would improve the team on the court, be a marketing dream off the court and would provide this young team some legitimate MVP leadership. If Nash chooses to play somewhere else, that's not BC's fault. Adding Fields might be overpaying slightly (for year 3, because $5M the first 2 years isn't too bad at all), but he's another good, young, versatile player that was tendered mainly to try and seal the deal to sign Nash (ie: can't evaluate the Fields deal just on its own). Plus, after Nash and/or Fields, I am sure there are many moves still to be made this offseason and potentially at this season's trade deadline. As long as the talent level of this team continues to grow and the young players continue to blossom individually and develop chemistry between them, I would argue that BC is building/managing this team quite well and in the right direction.


    Plus, who knows what the Eastern Conference is going to wind up looking like this season. Miami is the only sure thing.

    Chicago - not the same team without Rose, who is out for the year

    Orlando - who knows what their roster will look like, but it seems like Howard will be on the move at some point this season

    Indiana - a good young team, but losing Hibbert would be a huge loss defensively (and Kaman is not known for his defense)

    Atlanta - ka-boom... they are writing off this season in an attempt to lure Howard and Paul next offseason

    Phillly - should fight for bottom half of the playoffs, but I don't think they're all that good on paper

    Milwaukee - same as Philly

    Boston - getting even older on one end, while bringing in a bunch of rookies... they could be really good or really bad, but should definitely be a playoff team

    New York - who knows, but I'd rather have Toronto's roster going forward

    Washington - improved character/image, but exactly how will that translate on the court? they should be better than last season, but I think I'd still rather have Toronto's roster

    Detroit - improved, but I think I'd still rather have Toronto's roster

    Brooklyn - should be good with Dwill and/or Howard, but without them...

    Charlotte & Cleveland - improved, but still at the bottom
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Jul 3rd, 2012 at 05:04 PM.

  14. #234
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    Quote Katman wrote: View Post
    Where did option 3 state that we would be in the lottery again? Pissed because no one agrees with you?
    Like I said, it's just another rage post by a stupid stupid man.

  15. #235
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    Thank you, CalgaryRapsFan, for putting together a coherent response with some concrete counter-points.

    A few counter-points of my own:

    --BC doesn't get exonorated because of what Bosh did. It was BC's responsibility to either keep him, or to set us up to retool without him (like Utah and Dever with their starts)... he did neither. He went the Cleveland route and we've been getting routed on the court ever since. That lies at BC's feet. He should be blamed for what happened with Bosh, and excused for it.

    --As for Nash, didn't we learn our lesson with Hakeem? The marketing & leadership angles are decent arguements, but the truth is that we're in a rebuilding mode and this pursuit of Nash does not fit the plan. All the other teams looking at Nash are firmly entrenched in "win now" mode, except one.

    --Regarding the actual rebuilding project: Davis and Derozen are not legit peices. Davis is in over his head on the offensive end and looks terrible much of the time. Derozen regressed and disappointed last season. We're looking to add 2 players at his position only 2 offseasons after we drafted the guy. We have 2 solid building blocks, JV and DC. That's not much to show after 4 lotteries. At least we got the coach right. BC gets credit there.

  16. #236
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    Why don't you just shut up with the topic of firing BC until he's shown what he's planning for next year this offseason? This discussion is so stupid at this point of the offseason. This is the year that every Raptors fan has been waiting for with such a good draft and good free agency. So why don't you post this either after the offseason (when he screws up) or when we're doing really horribly next season? This is such an unnecessary post at this present time!

  17. #237
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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    Why don't you just shut up with the topic of firing BC until he's shown what he's planning for next year this offseason? This discussion is so stupid at this point of the offseason. This is the year that every Raptors fan has been waiting for with such a good draft and good free agency. So why don't you post this either after the offseason (when he screws up) or when we're doing really horribly next season? This is such an unnecessary post at this present time!
    With all the risky moves that are getting made/reported, it's a decent time to talk about if we really trust the GM. To me, it's clear from his track record (4 straigh lottos) that he is not to be trusted with anything. It's interesting to see that most of the fans on this board actually still trust the guy whole-heartedly.

    If you'd like to evaluate based 100% on hindsight, he's already shown the plan. Fields and Nash at a combined $55 million until 2016.

    You may now continue to insult me. I feel very confident I will be exonorated once we're using hindsight.

  18. #238
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    PS: No, you shutup!!!!!

  19. #239
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    --BC doesn't get exonorated because of what Bosh did. It was BC's responsibility to either keep him, or to set us up to retool without him (like Utah and Dever with their starts)... he did neither. He went the Cleveland route and we've been getting routed on the court ever since. That lies at BC's feet. He should be blamed for what happened with Bosh, and excused for it.
    I was actually one of very few who was pushing for Toronto to trade Bosh before his last season in Toronto. However, given the way the situation unfolded and what the alternatives were, I'm not upset with how it went down. Miami had nothing else to offer - I wanted nothing to do with Beasley then and still don't now. Without knowing what else was actually offered, there's no way to really judge the transaction.

    --As for Nash, didn't we learn our lesson with Hakeem? The marketing & leadership angles are decent arguements, but the truth is that we're in a rebuilding mode and this pursuit of Nash does not fit the plan. All the other teams looking at Nash are firmly entrenched in "win now" mode, except one.
    There is no way you can compare the Hakeem signing to the Nash signing. I think the Nash signing would be fantastic both on and off the court. He still has a couple good seasons left in him, because his game doesn't depend on athlticism; he is good because of his BBIQ, court vision and passing. Those skills don't drop off overnight. BC can continue adding good young talent to this team (ie: Valanciunas, Ross, Acy and Fields so far already this offseason), but a team needs at least one solid vetran providing leadership both on and off the court to all the youngins... who better than a natural born leader who just happens to be a 2-time MVP and multi-time all star?!

    --Regarding the actual rebuilding project: Davis and Derozen are not legit peices. Davis is in over his head on the offensive end and looks terrible much of the time. Derozen regressed and disappointed last season. We're looking to add 2 players at his position only 2 offseasons after we drafted the guy. We have 2 solid building blocks, JV and DC. That's not much to show after 4 lotteries. At least we got the coach right. BC gets credit there.
    Davis hasn't had a proper training camp yet and still has room to improve, if he isn't traded this offseason for a big time SF. DeRozan has shown flashes of improvement and is still very young (23). Even if they don't live fully up to expectations, I would still argue that they were the right picks for Toronto. I think it's too early to judge them yet and we can't judge this offseason and the entire team building, until the offseason is done, then we can evaluate it on the whole. You can't just nitpick certain aspects, without viewing it in the perspective of the bigger team picture, both short and long-term.


    I respect your opinions, I just happen to disagree with the logic and rationale behind them.

  20. #240
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    Default This thread needs some Mary J Blige.


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