View Poll Results: (When) Should the Raps fire BC?

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  • Immediately

    4 7.69%
  • If we lose out on Nash and finish in the lotto next year

    11 21.15%
  • I still trust him, don't foresee a firing.

    37 71.15%
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Thread: Disgruntled Fans 2012: Extended stinkfest? (#296)

  1. #301
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Letting Bayless walk at that reasonable of a deal wasn't something I was fond of. Alabi isn't worth mentioning as he never showed anything in two seasons to even be thought of as a worth while piece. I think JJ's worth has been overhyped based on how poor the other wing defenders were (DD, Kleiza and Forbes). Fields although overpaid is much better then JJ IMO. JJ has more highlight real blocks but Fields is the far superior shooter, better defender (less fouls), rebounder and has a much higher IQ. Ross is said to be a capable defender and can also spread the floor unlike JJ. Demar still has another gear or two in his game and I'd hate to see him moved unless it was a sure thing. The jury is out on Ed Davis and Amir is a solid but unspectacular big man on a reasonable contract depending on the week. BC hasn't abanoded the "rebuild" as he's aquired a 26 year old PG and signed a much needed wing who's 24 with both of them having a lot of expierance. The Jose deal could really help us or set us back time will tell.

  2. #302
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    Default Negative

    Gee wiz....so much negativity.

    We're one many NBA teams that are BAD...things will get better.

    Be at peace

  3. #303
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I would argue that "losing" Alabi, Bayless and JJ is addition by subtraction :-)

    DD & Davis & JJ for Iggy would essentially be an upgrade of DD at SF, while stabilizing the rotation with Amir as the established backup PF.

    When you also consider the addition of Valanciunas, Ross, Acy, Lowry and likely Fields, I don't know how anybody could rationally argue that the 2012-13 Raptors wouldn't be a significant improvement over last year's squad.

    2011-12 ROSTER
    C: Gray, Magloire, Alabi
    PF: Bargnani, Amir, Davis
    SF: JJ, Kleiza, Butler/Anderson
    SG: DeRozan, Barbosa, Forbes
    PG: Calderon, Bayless, Carter/Uzoh

    2012-13 ROSTER (based on original post of DD/JJ/Davis for Iggy)
    C: Valanciunas, Gray, Magloire
    PF: Bargnani, Amir, Acy
    SF: Iguodala, Kleiza
    SG: Fields, Ross
    PG: Lowry, Calderon, Uzoh


    Next year's team would be much better than last year's team, hands down.

  4. #304
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    Default Those guys all suck, get a grip dude

    "they will loose:
    - Bayless
    - Derozen
    - Alabi
    - Davis
    - J Johnson
    - A Johnson (All in early 20's... so much for youngunz + weems)"
    Having those players on the roster will keep us in the lottery for years.

    For f*&^ sakes man, Iggy is on team USA. The talent of all those players combined is not enough to make team USA. Your post is a weird instance where a super-homer turns on the team for not keeping together a sub-par roster.

  5. #305
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    Bayless, DeRo, Davis, Johnson, Johnson, and Alabi will combine for 0 all star games over the course of their careers. Worrying about losing these guys is like getting upset that Triano is no longer the coach
    I think taking players or trading players should not be based on accolades and achievements but rather how that player fits the team. K. Perkins and Afflalo were highly coveted players at some point but they never had any accolades to show for. No all-star, no rookie honors.

    Except for Alabi, the 5 players you mentioned are very serviceable, and IMO, fits the Raps system and the team objectives. Of course if it means getting a superstar by trading these players is possible then of course do it, but to write them off coz theyre not "all-star" material is IMO a bit unreasonable.

  6. #306
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    Wow. let the season play out. That's not being a true fan declaring the team as going to "Suck". I believe that with a full training camp, Casey will do what he has to do to make the guys work as a team. Have FAITH!

  7. #307
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I would argue that "losing" Alabi, Bayless and JJ is addition by subtraction :-)

    DD & Davis & JJ for Iggy would essentially be an upgrade of DD at SF, while stabilizing the rotation with Amir as the established backup PF.

    When you also consider the addition of Valanciunas, Ross, Acy, Lowry and likely Fields, I don't know how anybody could rationally argue that the 2012-13 Raptors wouldn't be a significant improvement over last year's squad.

    2011-12 ROSTER
    C: Gray, Magloire, Alabi
    PF: Bargnani, Amir, Davis
    SF: JJ, Kleiza, Butler/Anderson
    SG: DeRozan, Barbosa, Forbes
    PG: Calderon, Bayless, Carter/Uzoh

    2012-13 ROSTER (based on original post of DD/JJ/Davis for Iggy)
    C: Valanciunas, Gray, Magloire
    PF: Bargnani, Amir, Acy
    SF: Iguodala, Kleiza
    SG: Fields, Ross
    PG: Lowry, Calderon, Uzoh


    Next year's team would be much better than last year's team, hands down.
    To include JV, Ross and Acy in the equation and say adding them is a significant improvement from last year's team is still a bit premature, IMO. We have not seen these three play in an actual NBA so we cant really say how their play will affect the standings for the Raptors.

    However, IMO, the addition of Lowry and Fields (IF) will definitely be an improvement considering their skillset and what the Raps were lacking last season.

  8. #308
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I think taking players or trading players should not be based on accolades and achievements but rather how that player fits the team. K. Perkins and Afflalo were highly coveted players at some point but they never had any accolades to show for. No all-star, no rookie honors.

    Except for Alabi, the 5 players you mentioned are very serviceable, and IMO, fits the Raps system and the team objectives. Of course if it means getting a superstar by trading these players is possible then of course do it, but to write them off coz theyre not "all-star" material is IMO a bit unreasonable.
    Bayless did not fit the system. He was an under-average defender and a me-first scorer. Both of those do not fit our system. There's a reason why Bayless bounces around so much.

    DeRozen is a slightly better fit due to better lateral quickness on D, but he's a very poor shot that regressed in his third year. That's not a serviceable piece unless youre looking for an 8th man

    Davis is supposed to be a strong defender with a work-in-progress offensive game. Except he often misses his assignment on D, seems overwhelmed by the speed of the NBA, and the "progress" on the offensive side is non-existent. Again, not serviceable.

    Amir is actually serviceable. He's finally got his head on straight out there, knows his assignments, has a nose for the ball and is still quite athletic. He's serviceable as a 3rd guy in a 3-big-man rotation. He's by no means a key piece of a contender.

    JJ is too fat and slow to guard NBA 3's on a night-in, night-out basis. He's got a good bball IQ and handle, but he's not good enough to start for a legit playoff team. He'd be a nice backup. I like James, but again it's not unreasonable to say that his career will be 100% unremarkable.

  9. #309
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    To include JV, Ross and Acy in the equation and say adding them is a significant improvement from last year's team is still a bit premature, IMO. We have not seen these three play in an actual NBA so we cant really say how their play will affect the standings for the Raptors.

    However, IMO, the addition of Lowry and Fields (IF) will definitely be an improvement considering their skillset and what the Raps were lacking last season.
    I would put it this way:

    C: Valanciunas > Alabi (Gray & Magloire are constants, but shift from starter and backup, to backup and 3rd string)

    PG: Lowry > Calderon AND Calderon > Bayless (Uzoh is a constant)

    WINGS: Iguodala > DeRozan AND Fields > JJ AND Ross => Forbes (Kleiza is a constant)

    - Davis (3rd string PF) > Acy, but was sacrificed to upgrade DeRozan and clear logjams at backup PF & backup SF

  10. #310
    Raptors Republic Rookie Demar_8756's Avatar
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    yeah man I agree wit u Big chieft Charlz, You can't let go of talent....I dont know why ppl want to throw away JJ, this guy is good defensivily and he got some nice footwork offensively. This guy reminds me of a young Paul Pierce...and clearly do NOT trade DeRozan, that would be the craziest thing to do in the NBA. So many changes happen on this team it makes me wonder if its impossible to just keep the team you have in the NBA.

    btw JJ has a blackbelet it Judo or something...no wonder this guy is fearless...and he's not fat! u kidding me, u fat!!

  11. #311
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    If they trade DeRozen and Davis for Iggy and quit on JJ Amir

    they will loose:
    - Bayless
    - Derozen
    - Alabi
    - Davis
    - J Johnson
    - A Johnson (All in early 20's... so much for youngunz + weems)

    It's Jemain O'neil for Hibbert again... in 3-4 years Iggy/Deng will be done and Kyle may end up being a top lottery pick for Rockets. I like Lowry but lets hope he stays healthy, and not too much like his best buddy Alvin williams who played so hard his body broke down for good.

    Sure they got two lottery picks and added Kyle L (26) and Landry - maybe?? (24) but at the end of the Day if you can't keep players in their prime 25-32 sort of age you will be in the endless cycle of lottery.

    We have seen so many other teams build themselves since the Raps have fallen out of the playoffs. Orland, Pacers, thunder etc.. and BC to save his job is going for broke in order to maybe land 5th or 6th seed in the next year or two.... That is why I am not in favor of Trading Davis or Derozen. Unless there is some comparable youth coming back.

    I am not in favor of throwing in the towel on the best defensive player on the team JJ.

    I know I will get flamed for this post but it is how I feel.
    All your threads have the same theme so... You know... Why not use the same thread?

    Besides, a 60 page "The Raptors will suck 4 life" thread would look a lot more powerful than these repeat little 5 pagers.

    I admire the dedication though. If I was this pessimistic I would be watching darts or curling or spelling bee competitions before hoops.

  12. #312
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    This thread is moot because Philly and Memphis will not give up their star-caliber players for any combination of poo-poo players the OP listed.

  13. #313
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
    Gee wiz....so much negativity.

    We're one many NBA teams that are BAD...things will get better.

    Be at peace
    Hear hear.

    Be loving and positive, my brothers.
    Ommm.
    Ommm.
    In Masai we Trust.

  14. #314
    Raptors Republic Rookie Demar_8756's Avatar
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    poo poo players lol

  15. #315
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Demar_8756 wrote: View Post
    yeah man I agree wit u Big chieft Charlz, You can't let go of talent....I dont know why ppl want to throw away JJ, this guy is good defensivily and he got some nice footwork offensively. This guy reminds me of a young Paul Pierce...and clearly do NOT trade DeRozan, that would be the craziest thing to do in the NBA. So many changes happen on this team it makes me wonder if its impossible to just keep the team you have in the NBA.

    btw JJ has a blackbelet it Judo or something...no wonder this guy is fearless...and he's not fat! u kidding me, u fat!!
    +1

    DO NOT TRADE DD - he can definately improve with his work ethic

    I would keep JJ as a spot starter or 6th man - he has skills, can defend and has IMPROVED his shooting

  16. #316
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    You listed a whole bunch of players that aren't on this team. What does Iggy or Deng or Landry have to do with the Raptors, unless new rumors (with credence) have surfaced?
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #317
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote Demar_8756 wrote: View Post
    yeah man I agree wit u Big chieft Charlz, You can't let go of talent....I dont know why ppl want to throw away JJ, this guy is good defensivily and he got some nice footwork offensively. !
    First ... What talent?
    and second.
    Since when is JJ a "good defender"?. Just because he blocks , steals , and rebounds does not make him a good defender. So often JJ makes a good defensive play and then the next play down completely screws up on defense.

    JJ's problem is that he is inconsistent on both offense and defense. Let someone else be his farm team for once.

    Raps fans are way to into athleticism and not enough into actual basketball skills.

  18. #318
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    First ... What talent?
    and second.
    Since when is JJ a "good defender"?. Just because he blocks , steals , and rebounds does not make him a good defender. So often JJ makes a good defensive play and then the next play down completely screws up on defense.

    JJ's problem is that he is inconsistent on both offense and defense. Let someone else be his farm team for once.

    Raps fans are way to into athleticism and not enough into actual basketball skills.
    It's the same reason they treated Reggie like a god and chanted "MVP" for Gray. I'm all for heart & hustle, but skill makes the playoffs and wins championships.

  19. #319
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    You all think so low of BC....give the dude some credit...he is trying with what he has...thats what a manager has to do.
    WHen he lost on NASH...it took him less then 48hr to go to plan b.

    This talk of past errors of JO or TJFORD stuff...was all handled based on the time and perspective.

    BC has a plan...and he will execute. I know this because I work in the same building as him.
    I'm the secuirty guard at the gate.

    Peace out

  20. #320
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Sheesh lol. I hear ya. I love our fan base and all their passion but I'm sick of potential... and freak athleticism. Ill take skill any day.

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