Disgruntled Fans 2012: Extended stinkfest? (#296)

[pesterm1]

You all think so low of BC....give the dude some credit...he is trying with what he has...thats what a manager has to do.
WHen he lost on NASH...it took him less then 48hr to go to plan b.

This talk of past errors of JO or TJFORD stuff...was all handled based on the time and perspective.

BC has a plan...and he will execute. I know this because I work in the same building as him.
I'm the secuirty guard at the gate.

Peace out

hmmm interesting. Im a security guard as well. Whats the craziest story you have? Anything really weird go down at the ACC ?

[NoBan]

poo poo players lol

DeRozen is below average for a starting 2 in the NBA. He'd be OK if he was a bench guy playing limited minutes. He has 0 star potential.

Strengths:
--> Transition finishing
--> Athleticism/Energy
--> Decent rebounder for a 2 guard
--> Good teammate

Weaknesses
--> Shooting (even though he's been in the league for 3 season and as a solid work ethic, he still can't shoot. hmm...)
--> Defensive intelligence
--> Passing
--> Passiveness

I wanted to say he's got a strong work ethic, but the evidence is that he's been around for 3 years and still cant shoot. He also routinely disappears on O and misses assignments on D. These are signs of a lack of self-confidence (not something usually associated with a strong work ethic). I like Demar as a person and he could be a nice bench player/emergency rotation guy for a good team, but he's nothing to get excited over. His propensity to disappear and take nights off has not faded in 3 seasons.

[NoBan]

You all think so low of BC....give the dude some credit...he is trying with what he has...thats what a manager has to do.
WHen he lost on NASH...it took him less then 48hr to go to plan b.

This talk of past errors of JO or TJFORD stuff...was all handled based on the time and perspective.

BC has a plan...and he will execute. I know this because I work in the same building as him.
I'm the secuirty guard at the gate.

Peace out

that nash thing was a fiasco from the beginning. A terrible fit with Casey's new team culture, an aging PG for a rebuilding project, and overpaid by 4 million a year. Now we have three shooting guards, none which are starter caliber, thanks to the backfire. This is not a well executed plan. It's a red-headed clown walking a tight rope blindfolded.

[DaveKim]

+1

DO NOT TRADE DD - he can definately improve with his work ethic

I would keep JJ as a spot starter or 6th man - he has skills, can defend and has IMPROVED his shooting

I can't argue the fact that JJ is a great defender and should be on our roaster. THe only cause for concern was the fact that JJ was benched for 2-3 games (not sure) due to an internal matter with DC. I don't think they have released as to why JJ was benched-CD, but i trust DC, and if DC wants him gone, ill be fine with that too.

Remember, JJ barely played for the Bulls and TIBs so there must be some underlining issues.

[Letter N]

BC has a plan...and he will execute. I know this because I work in the same building as him.
I'm the secuirty guard at the gate.

Do lots of other company presidents and CEOs share their plans with you or is it just Bryan Colangelo that sits with you in the lobby discussing the future of his multi-million dollar organization?

[ReubenJRD]

*Sigh* This thread should be merged with "Dumb things Raptor Fans say."

Moderators, get er' done.

[Nilanka]

You all think so low of BC....give the dude some credit...he is trying with what he has...thats what a manager has to do.
WHen he lost on NASH...it took him less then 48hr to go to plan b.

This talk of past errors of JO or TJFORD stuff...was all handled based on the time and perspective.

BC has a plan...and he will execute. I know this because I work in the same building as him.
I'm the secuirty guard at the gate.

Peace out

Are you sure he has a plan? I'm on the fence with BC, but lately it seems like he's making it up as he goes. The Lowry acquisition was a nice fallback to Nash (and arguably the better option anyway), but the Fields contract is as laughable as Brook Lopez's max contract.

And how did BC not see the Calderon situation developing? A lot of potential suitors have now addressed their PG situations, and BC seems caught off-guard that Calderon is unhappy, with very few trading partners left. Meanwhile, anyone with half a brain would've anticipated Calderon's reaction, regardless of how "professional" he's been in the past.

[NoBan]

*Sigh* This thread should be merged with "Dumb things Raptor Fans say."

Moderators, get er' done.

the over-merging that goes on here is ridiculous.

just let the topics run their course and drop to the bottom when they lose steam.

If 2 threads are about the exact same thing and are posted at the same time.. go ahead and merge. But don't merge threads just because they are semi-related and you are a mod who can merge things. It's so frustrating to be involved in an exchange and then is just disappears because some mod decided the board wasn't pretty enough.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Are you sure he has a plan? I'm on the fence with BC, but lately it seems like he's making it up as he goes. The Lowry acquisition was a nice fallback to Nash (and arguably the better option anyway), but the Fields contract is as laughable as Brook Lopez's max contract.

And how did BC not see the Calderon situation developing? A lot of potential suitors have now addressed their PG situations, and BC seems caught off-guard that Calderon is unhappy, with very few trading partners left. Meanwhile, anyone with half a brain would've anticipated Calderon's reaction, regardless of how "professional" he's been in the past.

How do we know he was caught off guard with Calderon? BC's been trying to unload him for 2 years, I highly doubt he was ever really solidly in the plans for the upcoming season, despite all the politically correct bromance stuff he's said about Jose in the media since the Lowry trade went through. I think it's just a matter of Calderon's agent going public with his agent's desire to leave Toronto, rather than a new, shocking, unexpected development.

It also sounds like BC had been talking to Houston about Lowry since well before the draft, so I'm guessing he already had his contingency plan in place. I do agree that the Fields offer might have been a little high, but RFA offers usually are and BC admitted as much... it would have been a genius move had Nash signed and he could still be made to look good if Fields returns to the form he showed during his rookie season and improves on that each of the next three years.

I agree that I'm waiting for the next move with baded breath, but I think BC definitely has been following a plan this offseason, whether we fully agree with it (so far) or not.

[Nilanka]

Alright, maybe instead of questioning whether he has a plan, I should've re-phrased to question the legitimacy of his plan

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Bayless did not fit the system. He was an under-average defender and a me-first scorer. Both of those do not fit our system. There's a reason why Bayless bounces around so much.

DeRozen is a slightly better fit due to better lateral quickness on D, but he's a very poor shot that regressed in his third year. That's not a serviceable piece unless youre looking for an 8th man

Davis is supposed to be a strong defender with a work-in-progress offensive game. Except he often misses his assignment on D, seems overwhelmed by the speed of the NBA, and the "progress" on the offensive side is non-existent. Again, not serviceable.

Amir is actually serviceable. He's finally got his head on straight out there, knows his assignments, has a nose for the ball and is still quite athletic. He's serviceable as a 3rd guy in a 3-big-man rotation. He's by no means a key piece of a contender.

JJ is too fat and slow to guard NBA 3's on a night-in, night-out basis. He's got a good bball IQ and handle, but he's not good enough to start for a legit playoff team. He'd be a nice backup. I like James, but again it's not unreasonable to say that his career will be 100% unremarkable.

Actually, these are very valid points, and i have seen these while watching the games.

But let me put my two cents in again....

Bayless fits the system. DC and BC said from day one that they are instilling an uptempo type of game, fewer sets and more pushing the pace. And they even want to continue doing that towards next season - http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...ronto-raptors/. And we all know Bayless is an uptempo player. he pushes the ball hard and always tries to lead the fastbreak. Defensively, he was a 106 last season which i think is a bit above average. The reason why he "bounced around so much" was 1) when he was in portland, he played behind andre miller and roy 2) In NO, he played behind Paul and 3) the raps let him go because they acquired lowry and there were no takers for calderon and his massive contract.

DD took more threes this season and more perimeter shots than drives thats why his % took a hit. I dont think a 16/2/3 guy in his 4th season can be labeled as an 8th man.

Davis was injured coming to draft, did not have a training camp his rookie season and sophomore season, and is splitting time with Amir. Jury is still out.

JJ is 6-9 and 248. Lebron is 6-8 and 250. Artest is 6-7 and 260. I think he's the right size for his height. He had a 100 def. rating last season and 103 avg. so i think he's able to keep up with his man. unless you specifically point out lebron, durant who are basically unguardable. I dont think he is a legit starter, but he definitely play enough minutes to be a factor.

[NoBan]

our plan is sh*t, but at least we have a plan!


..... ladies and gentlemen, your 2012 raptors offseason!

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

the over-merging that goes on here is ridiculous.

just let the topics run their course and drop to the bottom when they lose steam.

If 2 threads are about the exact same thing and are posted at the same time.. go ahead and merge. But don't merge threads just because they are semi-related and you are a mod who can merge things. It's so frustrating to be involved in an exchange and then is just disappears because some mod decided the board wasn't pretty enough.

I do agree with NoBan here. sometimes, the threads are lost because they get merged with others. Maybe let the threads die down then merge.

[ReubenJRD]

the over-merging that goes on here is ridiculous.

just let the topics run their course and drop to the bottom when they lose steam.

If 2 threads are about the exact same thing and are posted at the same time.. go ahead and merge. But don't merge threads just because they are semi-related and you are a mod who can merge things. It's so frustrating to be involved in an exchange and then is just disappears because some mod decided the board wasn't pretty enough.

I was expressing sarcasm. Get the fact that I said merge this thread with "Dumb things Raptor Fans say"?

If you don't like the 'over-merging', bring it up with them, I'm not the one to rant about your problems to find a discussion.

This is nothing but another negative opinion which continues to be the reason why nobody likes to come and play for Toronto.
People are posting 'threads' which should be 'replies' and 'comments' on a REAL thread.

'Hey the team sucks, and they will for a long time because we have so on, and so on... ' Okay? What's your argument? Oh, Demar can't shoot. Than we go on and on about how Demar can't shoot, and his potential, his improvements and all that shit. Next thing you know, we are talking about Demar Derozan, therefore, merge it with the 'DeChosen" thread.

Catch the message? Or did that also dissapear?

[NoBan]

I was expressing sarcasm. Get the fact that I said merge this thread with "Dumb things Raptor Fans say"?

If you don't like the 'over-merging', bring it up with them, I'm not the one to rant about your problems to find a discussion.

This is nothing but another negative opinion which continues to be the reason why nobody likes to come and play for Toronto.
People are posting 'threads' which should be 'replies' and 'comments' on a REAL thread.

'Hey the team sucks, and they will for a long time because we have so on, and so on... ' Okay? What's your argument? Oh, Demar can't shoot. Than we go on and on about how Demar can't shoot, and his potential, his improvements and all that shit. Next thing you know, we are talking about Demar Derozan, therefore, merge it with the 'DeChosen" thread.

Catch the message? Or did that also dissapear?

Calm down, big fella. I did not intend to target your post specifically.

This thread has a poor title, but the subject is legit - the guy doesn't want to trade our young players for perceived upgrades due to past experiences like hibbert (funny that he didnt bring up bender, haha). It's a legit (albeit wrong) point that deserves to stand alone instead of merging into an umbrella thread where many discussions are forced together. Merging threads so frequently makes it difficult to find your past discussions and ultimately drives down the posting and readship of the site.

[Risk Mgmt]

hmmm interesting. Im a security guard as well. Whats the craziest story you have? Anything really weird go down at the ACC ?

Well i find it a bit weird how Casey walks around the ACC with the cell phone tucked inside his hat. I mean why not just get a blue tooth. I'm mostly at the ACC condo site underground parking...

Those rides are more expensive then my rented basement value.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

How do we know he was caught off guard with Calderon? BC's been trying to unload him for 2 years, I highly doubt he was ever really solidly in the plans for the upcoming season, despite all the politically correct bromance stuff he's said about Jose in the media since the Lowry trade went through. I think it's just a matter of Calderon's agent going public with his agent's desire to leave Toronto, rather than a new, shocking, unexpected development.

It also sounds like BC had been talking to Houston about Lowry since well before the draft, so I'm guessing he already had his contingency plan in place. I do agree that the Fields offer might have been a little high, but RFA offers usually are and BC admitted as much... it would have been a genius move had Nash signed and he could still be made to look good if Fields returns to the form he showed during his rookie season and improves on that each of the next three years.

I agree that I'm waiting for the next move with baded breath, but I think BC definitely has been following a plan this offseason, whether we fully agree with it (so far) or not.

Sad as it may sound but I think he was still keeping Jose in the backburner incase the Lowry trade didnt pan out. And now that he got Lowry, it so happened that most of the other teams were able to acquire PGs as well, so the market for Jose got smaller.

I think he has a plan. Of course, not all plans are executed successfully, specially in their business wherein moves are not just dependent on them, but with other GMs as well. They wanted to see if Bargnani is really a PF so they moved him to the PF spot and drafted a C in JV. They didnt add any major pieces last year to open cap space. they traded for Lowry who can address the defensive issues in the 1 spot. Seems like he had/has a plan and pieces are slowly coming together.

[Risk Mgmt]

Do lots of other company presidents and CEOs share their plans with you or is it just Bryan Colangelo that sits with you in the lobby discussing the future of his multi-million dollar organization?

Its mostly BC and ACC Staff ...sometimes I bump into the MLSE BOD walking in and out of the Condo Parking. I hear the chatter, I pay attention.
BC is a very good guy...humble. You have to put things into total business perpsective to excute the plan...in business you get thing coming out from left field unexpected or of low probability...BC knew that JOSE wouldnt be happy. BUT THIS DOESNT matter we're not here to baby JOSE like was done with VC...it all business

BC has a plan with the objective to make the team better with resources at hand...if next year we have more wins but stil dont make the playoffs...and show more progress then last....you see what i mean.

Things dont happen over night and you dont find Lebrons types on Yonge and Dundas..

[ReubenJRD]

Calm down, big fella. I did not intend to target your post specifically.

This thread has a poor title, but the subject is legit - the guy doesn't want to trade our young players for perceived upgrades due to past experiences like hibbert (funny that he didnt bring up bender, haha). It's a legit (albeit wrong) point that deserves to stand alone instead of merging into an umbrella thread where many discussions are forced together. Merging threads so frequently makes it difficult to find your past discussions and ultimately drives down the posting and readship of the site.

No worries. I do agree that at odd times some threads are merged very quickly, but I think some things started as threads, can be brought up in others. This is a discussion specifically that has been discussed over and over again, and it just becomes annoying to see the same topics come up on an island frequently.

Now to the topic.
I have optimism towards BC's plan, I'm quite excited with the addition of Lowry, because he automatically becomes a better upgrade at the point guard, and possibly our best player, (second, behind a healthy 13 game Bargnani ;P).

I think patience is required, the off-season just started OFFICIALLY 2 days ago, and we are already looking for the roster to be locked up, JJ is still on the team, we have an upgrade of Lowry over Calderon, and Derozan's experience with USA should be a lock for him on this team.

Gonna take the cliche quote someone said in another thread (I think it was Ceez) Rome wasn't built in a day. Trading younger, higher potential players for proven studs like Iguodala is a 50/50 opinion for everyone. But saying the team sucks if we trade our players who haven't fully proven they CAN be good, is thrown too high. If you think about, we let Bayless and Forbes go to open the opportunity for Lowry to be in the fold.

[Risk Mgmt]

Please note...in professional sports...your only plan if in the building stage is to nurture your kids into star etc.
Everything else is based on UFA, player TRade demands, availaibilities etc... This second element is very tricky as you know not when the next player is available etc...

Planning is one thing...but in sports its very complicated to say oh lets get him. It aint that easy.

BC knows this...he's a fan of analytics software stuff but also realizes some things can't be measured...you can't measure Jose's loyalty nor Nash is off court impact. Regardless its tricky game...I'm biased perhaps but I like BC

and reality is who else would consider for a GM

Peace