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Thread: Are the Raptors in trouble?

  1. #21
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    The Mavs just lost out on Deron Williams and Nash, then Jason Terry jumped ship for Boston. Think they're 'in trouble'? Free agents are fickle, and all it takes is an all-star or two turn perception around (see: LA Clippers and Minnesota Timberwolves).

    The franchise is fine, all that's really happened is that the Raps have had a string of draft picks that haven't fully panned out or developed into the kind of players you can build around. A lot of mid-market teams wander the NBA wilderness for a lot longer than that before they land the stars needed to guide them back to playoffs. The Raps just need to be patient, use this year to see what they've got in their young players, maximize flexibility going forward and then make some tough decisions about who to keep and who to trade.

    Unfortunately BC is the team's GM and his job on the line, which means my answer could change in the coming days or weeks depending on how badly he fucks it up.
    I enjoyed your post. And I agree, Dallas has been a WTF situation since their parade. As far as the patience angle, I find it difficult to stay with you. Patience is fine if you trust the guy in charge.

    (Time for a classic cliche..) ... That being said, if we walk out of this with Dragic and Illysova (at reasonable deals of course), I could definitely get on board with that. If we can whiff on every "plan A" from Colangelo, we be 'aight.

  2. #22
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    signs your a troll: the last time u said anything possitive Michael Jordan was winning dunk competitions..LOL
    Really a all-caps lol on that one? And hey that's no fair, I've posted this before

    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    The TBJ guys are awesome. In fact, much of the non-mainstream, non RapsTV coverage of the team is good. Raps republic and even Carefoot frequently post good stuff. It would be even more enjoyable if there was even one exciting aspect to this team at the moment.

    Pound the Rock is a decent attempt to change the culture of the team. It's encouraging to see a coach that understands the fundamental change necessary in this organization.

    The turban/beard guy under the visitors hoop is always a comfort to see. That guy brings it.

    The weird 3D baseline paint is very cool.

    The fanbase has unlimited (although largely untapped) potential; ACC is a good arena. If this team ever got it together, we'd have something real going on.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    Really a all-caps lol on that one? And hey that's no fair, I've posted this before
    wow i must have missed that one..LOL good post LOL.. for real though.. no need to always be so negative..

  4. #24
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    I cant resist... a few more fun talking points for today's discussion:

    Is the liberal party of canada in trouble?

    Is the european economy in trouble?

    Is RIM in trouble?

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    The pressure is all on BC.

    He has to deliver now. He has to justify the low-ceiling draft picks this year which suggest we are trying to compete right now. And for that he has to bring in a big name signing with all the capspace we have accumulated.

    I will wait for the end of off-season before l I start calling for his head
    +1000. This is going to be interesting. First, the "panic pick" in Ross, now this!
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Rookie 10 000 Hours's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    +1000. This is going to be interesting. First, the "panic pick" in Ross, now this!
    How was it a panic pick? This is a pro sports team, I'm sure they were prepared for multiple scenarios. Let's give the kid a chance first. It might turn out to be a poor pick, but "panic" is a little too hyperbolic IMO.

  7. #27
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear the explanation for why Ross has a low ceiling. How is this being measured?

  8. #28
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I'd like to hear the explanation for why Ross has a low ceiling. How is this being measured?
    +1

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I'd like to hear the explanation for why Ross has a low ceiling. How is this being measured?
    +1 I think Ross was a great pick. Adds 3 pt shooting and defense. People just assume he has a low ceiling because they've never watched him play and judge everything off of mock drafts.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    we are fine. I just hope boson doesn't make that oj mayo for bass trade
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Rookie madeupid25's Avatar
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    I am getting more disappointed with every move Colangelo makes (although I don't hate the Ross pick). Going back to when he drafted Davis (which I liked), I didnt understand why he signed a similar player with likely a lower ceiling in Amir Johnson. People often complain about Davis, but he should have been getting more minutes the last 2 years so he would have had a better shot at developing his game.

    The JV pick was probably nice. I know everyone around here loves the guy, but we'll actually see after he plays a few NBA games. He also was gifted to us by Grant in Cleveland, who has made some questionable picks in the last 2 years.

    Now we have gone out and overpaid for Fields, again after just drafting a player who plays the same position. DD, Bayless, Ross would have been a decent off guard rotation, and now one of them is on the way out to make room for Fields.

    This may have been a move by BC to screw over the Knicks in their bid to sign and trade for Nash. In the process he has screwed over New York, Nash, and possibly us as well. I was not thrilled about the prospect of rebuilding around a 38 year old point guard. It seemed like the move was being made as much for business reasons, for Colangelo's next contract, the Raptors ticket and merch sales, and less because it would make us a competitive team in the long run.

    More than likely we would have ended up a low seed in the East, and an early out for the next couple of years until we were back at square one.

    This guy better pull off something impressive or I want him gone before the end of next season.
    Last edited by madeupid25; Thu Jul 5th, 2012 at 01:14 AM.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Bring out the big guns .... Time to offer cash on the side: "stfu and just come to Toronto" ala Mikhail Prokorov.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

  13. #33
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    The Raptors went all out for Nash and it might be a good thing that they didn’t get him, you know, other than the whole Landry Fields thing. It would have been great for a honeymoon period, say for a year, but after that I think the novelty would have gotten old. People want to see winning and I don’t think Nash would have brought enough winning to the team. At his age, is Nash really that much better than Calderon? I know that’s blasphemous but Calderon is severely underrated. They

    http://chrisross91.wordpress.com/201...or-steve-nash/

  14. #34
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Losing out on Nash is, in my opinion, a massive blow for this team. The basketball reasons (lol) are perhaps secondary to the effects of having the greatest Canadian player of all time refuse to finish his career on Canada's only team, giving up about 30% salary to do so. I don't hold any real ill will towards him, but basically, if Nash won't sign here, who will?

    Thoughts?
    We've traditionally needed to overpay for free agents, and even that won't get us all the free agents we want. That's not going to change. We could build a winner, and that might put us on level footing with a lot of the league but it's unlikely anyone would sign with Toronto for a discount even then. Honestly, I thought that the idea that Nash would make us an attractive free agent destination was a little silly. How many free agents has Nash attracted to Phoenix in recent years? A handful of guys of the the Josh Childress ilk, and those aren't the sort of guys who can turn a franchise around. Surprise, guys who come here are doing it for the money.

    What's the worst that could come of this? An opportunity was missed, or perhaps the perceived opportunity never existed at all. All those free agents that weren't signing with us before will continue to not sign with us. Some smug ESPN writers will get to write nasty columns at our expense. Maybe it tarnishes BC's reputation so much that it's difficult for him to do business. Guess what, there's an easy fix for that, too.

    So are we in trouble? No more or less than we've been since the organization came into existence. Look, 90% of the teams in the league are slightly improving, slightly declining, or staying about the same. We're slightly improving from last year to this year and probably to next year, and as a lottery team, that means we're moving toward the mean. If you're the sort of sports fan who likes getting angry, there's lots to get angry about. If you're the sort of sports fan who likes being optimistic, there's lots to be optimistic about. The reality is probably somewhere between what those two camps believe.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    The Mavs just lost out on Deron Williams and Nash, then Jason Terry jumped ship for Boston. Think they're 'in trouble'? Free agents are fickle, and all it takes is an all-star or two turn perception around (see: LA Clippers and Minnesota Timberwolves).

    The franchise is fine, all that's really happened is that the Raps have had a string of draft picks that haven't fully panned out or developed into the kind of players you can build around. A lot of mid-market teams wander the NBA wilderness for a lot longer than that before they land the stars needed to guide them back to playoffs. The Raps just need to be patient, use this year to see what they've got in their young players, maximize flexibility going forward and then make some tough decisions about who to keep and who to trade.

    Unfortunately BC is the team's GM and his job on the line, which means my answer could change in the coming days or weeks depending on how badly he fucks it up.
    I don't think we're in trouble but comparing them with the Mavs is just silly.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  16. #36
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I don't think we're in trouble but comparing them with the Mavs is just silly.
    Alright, here's a better comparison: The Suns have a penny pinching owner that has directly killed his team's chances of winning a title during the Nash era in multiple seasons, are a small market team with nothing to attract free agents except their training staff (and crazy-hot weather if you happen to like that), their best player just walked, and the remaining quality talent on the roster includes Marcin Gortat and....Jared Dudely?

    Yet despite that, they've agreed with Eric Gordon to a max contract, and agreed to terms with Dragic and Beasley. A year ago if you asked a Suns fan if the franchise was in trouble, they'd probably have said yes under the expectations that Nash would leave and it would be difficult to fill that void without trading him for significant assets. Turns out they've managed to. Same thing with Dallas: ask their fans and they'll probably tell you that losing Terry and losing out on Williams (and likely Dwight Howard next summer) is a crippling blow to the franchise's 'rebuild on the fly with flexibility' plans. But they'll be fine in the long run.

    And so will the Raps. This may not have been their summer, but they still have a lot of young assets, a good coach, a flexibility. As long as BC doesn't mess that up with a panic signing or trade, they'll go into next offseason in a strong position, and the results might be very different.

  17. #37
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    Default Al Business

    To Whom It May Concern,

    This is to advise you that Toronto Raptors are not in trouble, no more then any other team that also lost the NASH lotto.

    Nash's decision to choose one team over another has nothing to do with hating Toronto, or Canada etc. It has all to do with Business. Its about money, family and best opportunities. You and I at our present job would do the same - we'd look out for ourselves and our families first. Nothing wrong with that.

    Nash's decision has no impact on Canada Basketball...but to say such things will sell papers and sports writer will exploit this to rally your emotions. Remember you and I as fans are $$$ to sports writers, MLSE etc. They give us nothing entertainment, we give them $$$. its all about money.

    In addition, please consider that Toronto's offer of $36M is much higher as compared to L.A. and NY etc. But he wil make more in those markets due to other in-direct sources, TV ratings, ads...they are bigger markets...so if LA pays him $20M he still has opportunity to rake in another $20M plus on other items in L.A. through appearences, TV, fund raising, endorements etc. TO is not at that level yet.

    ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY....Nash did would you and I would do...he did what lebron did...money and winning. Nobody hates TDOT. Is OKC, MILWACKY OR MINNIAPOLIS OR PORTLAND better then TDOT? Yes, only because they win and we don't. Where would you rather live...T.O. culture, entertainment, scene is better then above fosho..but we suck and they dont win well..Minny does...and thats all that matter...Its about money and the winning culture...

    Lets move on...and all the best to NASH and we hope he does well. BC did what he should've and I'm sure he has PLAN B. He is a good GM...and if you dont like him...please advise me who'd you rather have in TO? EACH city has its strengths and weaknesses....a good GM has to work through them all.

    All the best to NASH and Toronto...its better this way

    The end

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Rookie meductic's Avatar
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    Troubles:
    1) a GM who does not have even a mediocre trading record who exhibits impatient tendencies
    2) no proven stars
    3) not free agent destination ( Nash )
    4) 4 years in lottery
    Positives:
    1) stable ownership
    2) stable attendance and media support
    3) great business model
    4) youth
    5) cap flexibility
    6) Dwayne Casey
    7) a great 2011 pick who would be a consensus #2 this year according to Ford and Simmons... and I even like this years pick
    Perspective:
    The Nash offer went from being rediculous in the US media when Toronto made it to being seen as brilliant when the Knicks were ready to mortgage everything with their counter offer. I was lukewarm to the whole thing at best and for those who want to boo him it is your right, he did lead us on somewhat, but should a father be half a continent away from his kids if he doesn't have to?
    Last edited by meductic; Thu Jul 5th, 2012 at 11:19 AM.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    at least we're getting some love somewhere

    thekidet evan turner
    I'm glad Steve Nash is in the West still and not in Toronto next year or else the Raptors wouldve been even tougher to play!

  20. #40
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    Would tax breaks help this franchise lure free agents?

    One thing that was talked about with the Heat is that that Florida doesn't impose personal income taxes on athletes. One thing I always hear about Toronto is that the taxes are too high. We already have too many other negatives for coming here. I would like to remove "taxes are too high" from that list. Is it maybe time for MLSE and other sports Franchises in Canada to start to lobby for some tax breaks for athletes.

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