Raptors in discussion with 76ers for Igoudala (Thorn denies rumor (#163)

[tucas]

Feel free to merge this with another thread I couldn't find one though.

The rumour going around now is that the raptors are in trade talks with the 76ers for Igoudala.
The trade would send Calderon, DeMar Derozan, and Ed Davis for Andre Igoudala and Nikola Vuvejic.

I have mixed feelings with this trade. I feel Demar has a lot of room to grow and shouldn't be the first to be traded for a guy in his prime who will soon decline. But at the same time we have Ross and likely fields and this would solve our largest problem and we'd get vuvejic another center. Assuming this was the last move this offseason our lineup would look like

Lowry/Bayless(if resigned)
Ross/Fields(or vice versa)
Iggy/JJ/Kleiza
Bargnani/Amir
Valanciunas/Vuvejic

This brings me to ask the question, if this happens aren't we almost just as weak at the sg spot as we are now at sf? I know Ross and fields will both get better but it just seems like its translating our problems to another position.

Source:

https://twitter.com/aarbron/status/220998302370508801

[Red and White]

I do not want us to go after iggy to be honest.

[tucas]

Source: Sam Shipley nba writer for sportstalkphilly via twitter.@samshipley5: I can confirm the Raptors/Sixers trade rumor. Source says it is legit. Calderon/Derozan/Ed Davis for Dre/Vuc.

[tucas]

I do not want us to go after iggy to be honest.

I'm not that high on him either. He's close to last on my starting sf's to get list.

[draftedraptor]

This doesn't look bad.

But I don' like iggy either. Rudy gay please.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

This doesn't look bad.

But I don' like iggy either. Rudy gay please.

Gay is likely off the market now that Memphis let Mayo walk. The Raps also can't offer Memphis a 1st round pick now (thanks to the Lowry trade), so we have nothing really of value to offer Memphis. Philly needs a backup PG and backup PF and backup/starting SG, but Memphis doesn't have those same needs, so what Toronto is offering doesn't match up as well with them, even if Gay were still available.

[Mapko]

This doesn't look bad.

But I don' like iggy either. Rudy gay please.

Rudy has (IMO) 2nd worst contract (after J Johnson). What did Hawks get for Joe? There is a reason why.
We CANNOT take on such a contract (unless it is a proven, solid all star. I am sorry but Gay is a very good player, but marginal all star IFF that).
How far did Gay lead Memphis (much better rest of the team than us) to?
Neither Iggy nor Gay is worth it.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Rudy has (IMO) 2nd worst contract (after J Johnson). What did Hawks get for Joe? There is a reason why.
We CANNOT take on such a contract (unless it is a proven, solid all star. I am sorry but Gay is a very good player, but marginal all star IFF that).
How far did Gay lead Memphis (much better rest of the team than us) to?
Neither Iggy nor Gay is worth it.

Gay would be an enormous upgrade over any of our current wings and he's only 25 (will be 26 next season). Yes his contract is big (average $17.9M over next 3 seasons), but it wouldn't be a horrible cap hit if Toronto sent out some substantial salary in return (ie: some combination of Calderon - $10.5M, Amir - $6M, DeRozan - 3.3M, JJ - $2.8M, Davis - $2.2M, Bayless - $4+M).

It's not entirely fair to compare Gay to Joe Johnson.
Gay: 26 years old next season, average $17.9M over next 3 seasons
Johnson: 31 years old next season, average $22.3M over next 4 seasons

[Mapko]

Gay would be an enormous upgrade over any of our current wings and he's only 25 (will be 26 next season). Yes his contract is big (average $17.9M over next 3 seasons), but it wouldn't be a horrible cap hit if Toronto sent out some substantial salary in return (ie: some combination of Calderon - $10.5M, Amir - $6M, DeRozan - 3.3M, JJ - $2.8M, Davis - $2.2M, Bayless - $4+M).

It's not entirely fair to compare Gay to Joe Johnson.
Gay: 26 years old next season, average $17.9M over next 3 seasons
Johnson: 31 years old next season, average $22.3M over next 4 seasons

6 Players you mentioned above (Jose, DD, JJ, Ed, Amir & Bayless) COMBINED make less than $54 mil coming to Gay.
1 or 2 or even 3 of those guys might be spare parts -but you need to replace (and pay) the rest.
Still think it makes sense?
Don't get me wrong. Rudy is a clear upgrade at SF, but $18 mil annually simply makes no sense (and yes it is fair to compare Gay to JJ: JJ might be older but he still contributes and is an all star).
Second comparison: Compare above 6 guys to players Nets sent to Hawks -You don't think they are not worth $4.4 mil (diff between Gay's & JJ's salary)?

[CalgaryRapsFan]

6 guys you mentioned above (Jose, DD, JJ, Ed, Amir & Bayless) COMBINED make less than 54 mil coming to Gay.
1 or 2 or even 3 of those guys might be spare parts -but you need to replace (and pay) the rest.
Still think it makes sense?
Don't get me wrong. Rudy is a clear upgrade at SF, but 18 mil annually simply makes no sense (and yes it is fair to compare Gay to JJ: JJ might be older but he still contributes and is an all star).

Yes, I think Gay is absolutely worth it. Assuming Calderon isn't part of the team moving forward, the only big cap-hits Toronto has are (next season numbers):

Bargnani - $10.0M
Fields - $6.2M
Amir - $6.05M
Lowry - $5.75M
Kleiza - $4.6M

Toronto would have the cap room to afford Rudy Gay, so I don't really care how much he costs - I'm not paying him. Is he perhaps a few million overpaid? Probably. But he is young and would be a part of the Raptors' young core group of players for the next 5-8 years.

A Toronto wing rotation of Gay/Kleiza at SF and Fields/Ross at SG would be fantastic. DeRozan and JJ wouldn't be the least bit missed.

And remember, DeRozan and JJ both expire after next season, meaning they'd both be in line for big paydays. DD's qualifying offer is a little over $4.5M and JJ's is a little over $3.95M. Davis' contract also expires after next season, but the Raptors have 1 more option year ($3.15M) and then after two seasons his qualifying offer is a little over $4.36M. That is 3 big paydays for the young/cheap players that many seem reluctant to trade for a proven borderline all-star like Rudy Gay, so those 3 big paydays need to be factored into any financial comparison as well.

I understand reluctance to go after Iggy or Deng, given their age, injury history and contract size. However, I think Gay is one SF that is a no brainer to go after, offering up Calderon & DeRozan & Davis & JJ.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Well I assumed they were obvious trading partners (and made a few posts today targeting such a trade), but hoped Toronto would only have to give up a selection of Amir, Davis, JJ, Calderon and Bayless. I also figured that Philly would want a future 1st round pick, in addition to a handful of backups, so perhaps DeRozan is now being included in place of a 1st round pick (since the Raps can't trade a 2013 or 2014 1st round pick, thanks to the Lowry trade).

I knew one of Davis/Amir would be traded this offseason (preference would be for it to be Amir) and one/both Calderon/Bayless would be traded (preference would be for it to be Bayless). Iggy would also make a wing player expendable - JJ, Kleiza or DeRozan (Ross was just drafted and Fields can't be traded yet) - my preference would have been to see JJ traded, but understand that Philly would want at least 1 starter caliber player in return, especially in lieu of getting a 1st round pick. Ross, Fields and Iggy on the wings make DD expendable (plus DD is in line for a big raise after next season, which Toronto would now avoid).

I don't mind this trade at all, but hope another backup PG will be found, because I do not want it to be Bayless!

[LBF]

rudy gay is going to cost asset wise twice as much.

[ReubenJRD]

If we can sub in JJ + Ed + Calderon + Bayless? For Iggy and Vuvejic? I don't wan't anything to do with trading Demar Derozan, too much upside.

[draftedraptor]

If we can sub in JJ + Ed + Calderon + Bayless? For Iggy and Vuvejic? I don't wan't anything to do with trading Demar Derozan, too much upside.

+1

There is no way I am giving up on him on his current contract till Casey had enough time to work with him.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

If we can sub in JJ + Ed + Calderon + Bayless? For Iggy and Vuvejic? I don't wan't anything to do with trading Demar Derozan, too much upside.

Philly doesn't need 2 backup PG (behind Holiday) and they don't need JJ for SF (they have Young and Harkless).

DeRozan is tough to giveup, but he is easily expendable now after the draft (Ross), signing Fields and now trading for Iggy. They'd still even have Kleiza and JJ, so one would think another player would likely wind up being dealt away.

Plus you have to giveup something of real value to get a legit all-star. Davis and Calderon are basically backups at this point, so I think it is fair (hard yes, but fair) to include DeRozan.

[Matt52]

Philly doesn't need 2 backup PG (behind Holiday) and they don't need JJ for SF (they have Young and Harkless).

DeRozan is tough to giveup, but he is easily expendable now after the draft (Ross), signing Fields and now trading for Iggy. They'd still even have Kleiza and JJ, so one would think another player would likely wind up being dealt away.

Plus you have to giveup something of real value to get a legit all-star. Davis and Calderon are basically backups at this point, so I think it is fair (hard yes, but fair) to include DeRozan.

I did read that Philly was looking at moving Holiday to SG and pursuing a PG. Don't remember where I read that.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I did read that Philly was looking at moving Holiday to SG and pursuing a PG. Don't remember where I read that.

I assume this deal would change their minds.

PF - Brand, Davis, Moultrie
SF - Young, Harkless
SG - DeRozan, Evans
PG - Holiday, Calderon

Unless they start DeRozan at SF and go with DD/Evans/Holiday

[Matt52]

I assume this deal would change their minds.

PF - Brand, Davis, Moultrie
SF - Young, Harkless
SG - DeRozan, Evans
PG - Holiday, Calderon

Unless they start DeRozan at SF and go with DD/Evans/Holiday

I would be surprised if Brand is back but I've been wrong before. I see this:

PG: Calderon
SG: Holiday, DD
SF: Evans, Young, Harkless
PF: Brand, Davis, Moultrie


I think Harkless is a project, Young remains 6th man, and DD becomes Lou off the bench.

[ReubenJRD]

Philly doesn't need 2 backup PG (behind Holiday) and they don't need JJ for SF (they have Young and Harkless).

DeRozan is tough to giveup, but he is easily expendable now after the draft (Ross), signing Fields and now trading for Iggy. They'd still even have Kleiza and JJ, so one would think another player would likely wind up being dealt away.

Plus you have to giveup something of real value to get a legit all-star. Davis and Calderon are basically backups at this point, so I think it is fair (hard yes, but fair) to include DeRozan.

If so, no to Iguodala. BC is very capable of pulling this off, but since we'd have to give up on Derozan, who many people believed he will be better than Iguodala when he was first drafted, I don't wanna have him. Like many have said already, Iguodala will soon be on the decline, anyways, JJ is a poor-mans Iguodala, so what's the point? JJ is younger as well.

[draftedraptor]

Plus you have to giveup something of real value to get a legit all-star.

How about Magloire as our legit all-star? Screw this trade and stick with our young talent. Demar is someone we have spent time developing and I don't want to give up on him just yet.

Again, I don't think this is bad trade at all. I like Iggy but somehow this trade reminds me of Turk saga.