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Thread: Raptors in discussion with 76ers for Igoudala (Thorn denies rumor (#163)

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Jeepers Cripes! Are you people really that soft for DD? Pack your shit and go! DD will never be an all-star and it`s the right time to get rid of him. We`re getting Iggy for DD.....good deal imo. I don`t care about DD ``upside`` because to me his ceiling is not as high as we think with our Raptors goggles on. I`m tired of this attitude that you have to grow 8 young guys together so that in 7 years we will have a championship calibre team for many years..BS Look at Dallas they aren`t even two full seasons removed and will never see a finals again for years. We are not OKC and were never going to be. The draft luck they had combined with Perkins coming over at the right time is something that might happen to ONE team once in every 2-4 year stretch. No guarantees. If this trade goes down we have a very good team and one that is capable of more than an 8th seed.

  2. #202
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Bryan and Dwane discussed about Demar getting stronger, his work for USA's select team, and being the eventual closer of games makes me feel Demar isn't getting moved, but this could be a curtain to shield any secret moves BC has in store.

    I don't necessarily feel Demar should leave, but if he does, the only one that I wouldn't be upset in gaining is Rudy Gay.

  3. #203
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Sheptor wrote: View Post
    Jeepers Cripes! Are you people really that soft for DD? Pack your shit and go! DD will never be an all-star and it`s the right time to get rid of him. We`re getting Iggy for DD.....good deal imo. I don`t care about DD ``upside`` because to me his ceiling is not as high as we think with our Raptors goggles on. I`m tired of this attitude that you have to grow 8 young guys together so that in 7 years we will have a championship calibre team for many years..BS Look at Dallas they aren`t even two full seasons removed and will never see a finals again for years. We are not OKC and were never going to be. The draft luck they had combined with Perkins coming over at the right time is something that might happen to ONE team once in every 2-4 year stretch. No guarantees. If this trade goes down we have a very good team and one that is capable of more than an 8th seed.
    Iguodala has reached his peak, he doesn't have any more potential, BC is looking for a future. I just don't see him growing with this team, he may make a big impact player for the team, but with him, he isn't going to get anymore better. He may be an upgrade now, but in 2-3 years, the deal could send us facing mediocrity, while the Sixers (another young core) build together. They have a young team on the rise, while we're trying to get out of the lottery.

  4. #204
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    Philly just agreed to terms w/ Nick Young,.. don't know how that affects this VERY sketchy rumour (dude who said it is a producer of OTR, not an insider) but what i do know is demar and nick young are redundant so i can't see thorn doing this

  5. #205
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    Furthermore,
    Remember Dwayne Casey stressing the importance of shooters? Iggy can't do that... Remember how bad the Raps offence was? They aren't trading one of their best scorers in Derozan without getting a scorer back.

    This is a BS rumour from a wannabe-insider media-type, who probably got this misinformation during a post-blumpkin pillow chat with Landsberg

  6. #206
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    Furthermore,
    Remember Dwayne Casey stressing the importance of shooters? Iggy can't do that... Remember how bad the Raps offence was? They aren't trading one of their best scorers in Derozan without getting a scorer back.

    This is a BS rumour from a wannabe-insider media-type, who probably got this misinformation during a post-blumpkin pillow chat with Landsberg
    +1 Iggy is not a very good shooter, James Johnson is a poor-mans Iguodala, with a solid mid ranged jumper.

  7. #207
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Yup. But they still need a PF (they only have Thad Young and Moultrie) and PG (they only have Holiday).

    I wonder if Calderon & Davis would be enough for Iggy, allowing Toronto to upgrade the starting SF position and add veteran leadership, without having to giveup DeRozan. I'd even throw in JJ.
    sign me up! might need to throw in a pick if derozan isn't part of it

  8. #208
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Iguodala has reached his peak, he doesn't have any more potential, BC is looking for a future. I just don't see him growing with this team, he may make a big impact player for the team, but with him, he isn't going to get anymore better. He may be an upgrade now, but in 2-3 years, the deal could send us facing mediocrity, while the Sixers (another young core) build together. They have a young team on the rise, while we're trying to get out of the lottery.
    Completely agree

  9. #209
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    I wonder if the amnestying of Brand could be read as an indication of things to come? Plus as some have already mentioned, pretty much eliminates the possibility of Derozan going out in a trade. Calderon + ED/Amir for Iggy wouldn't be a half bad move, and it would now address both our redundancies AND Phillies holes (the hallmark of any good trade). I'd much rather have someone like Gay, but this would still be an improvement on the current line up.

    Lowry, Fields and Iggy would be a very nice defensive backcourt (though I imagine being relegated to 6th man/scorer off the bench would be a tough pill for Demar to swallow).

    Pretty hard to get a read on what Philly is doing these days though. As much as I dislike Hollinger, he makes some good points about the craziness of Phillies recent dealings: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...adelphia-76ers

  10. #210
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Iguodala has reached his peak, he doesn't have any more potential, BC is looking for a future. I just don't see him growing with this team, he may make a big impact player for the team, but with him, he isn't going to get anymore better. He may be an upgrade now, but in 2-3 years, the deal could send us facing mediocrity, while the Sixers (another young core) build together. They have a young team on the rise, while we're trying to get out of the lottery.
    We drafted Ross a player almost no one here knows anything about realistically and was drafted in basically the same position as DeRozan. Iggy`s contract is over in 3 years and Bargs might no longer be a raptor then either. It`s about putting a solid lineup out there this year and with iggy we have that. His best days are done but he is still 3 years shy of going Downhill. Get this done and let DD`s bismal shooting be someone else`s problem. Iggy is better in every aspect of the game including dunking!

  11. #211
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    dont know what this means on our trade front but BC pulled the QO to Bayless making him UFA.. maybe calderon stays??

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Making_Him_UFA

    Hollinger thinks a trade may be brewing, according to him Bayless signing couldnt have blown up the Fields/Lowry deals so he thinks something else is in the works

    i hope its not Iggy..

    i would be suprised if Mavs hadnt already offered Marion for Jose.. would give them a PG for the year & $ next free agency.. & im sure DC likes him.. not saying id do it but i can see the logic in that deal far more then giving up all our assets for Iggy

    maybe something like this could work..
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=75kv8da
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Fri Jul 6th, 2012 at 03:48 PM.

  12. #212
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    Quote geo wrote: View Post
    there is no way we trade derozan idc...ill give up bargs...BC DONT GIVE DEROZAN DONT
    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    If we give up Derozan, essentially all we do is replace our hole at SF with a hole at SG. Fields is nothing more than a role player at this time, and Ross is completely unproven.

    I would give up JJ/Kleiza + Calderon + 1st round pick + Davis/Amir to get this done. I think those three considerable assets should be enough to take what has been known as one of the worst contracts in the league for several years. Maybe we need to get a third team involved someone that needs PG.

    I don't think giving up Derozan + all/some of those assets doesn't make us better. If however we can keep Derozan:

    PG: Lowry/Bayless/(Uzoh?)
    SF: Iguodala/Kleiza/(Anderson? lol)
    SG: Derozan/Fields/Ross
    PF: Bargnani/(Davis or Amir)/Acy
    C: Valanciunas/Vucevic/(Gray?)

    With a starting line up like that we will definitely make the playoffs this year.

    BC get it done without trading Demar!
    Quote geo wrote: View Post
    i think he has improved...i think when bargnani was hurt teams zeroed in on him and he was the focus...granted he played some bad games but i think those are growing pains. After the all star break he was 10th in scoring in the eastern conference. Now i understand scoring isnt everything but its what he does best

    I really am excited to see what he does with a full training camp under casey
    Just to add, everyone is so hard and demar (and ED) but last year they weren't aloud to workout with their coaching staff which is why i think we didn't see as much improvement from ED as was expected.. this year will be a tell tale side for all... Last year demar was forced to put-up shots and was the focus of the entire defence with very little scoring help... when your next best scorer is Jose.... you have problems

  13. #213
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about it and I would be very much in favour of getting Iggy and giving up Demar, ED or whoever. Not just because I think Demar and ED are never going to be great players but also because this team needs a guy like Iguodala who is a smart veteran, has been part of a team that went from shit to playoff team and even took arguably the 3rd or 4th best team in the league to 7 games. He knows what part he plays in the team and is ok just being a catalyst out there, not needing the stats.

    We have him for 2 years in which he becomes the on-court leader and showing the younger guys how to play smart, efficient basketball, especially on D, and if he leaves after 2 years so be it, our guys gain a ton of knowledge and they stop being stuck in this losing, woe is me mentality. Every team needs a strong veteran presence, and that's something that Rudy Gay and his points can't give.

  14. #214
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    Does anyone think this could mean a bigger trade with phili? I.e. including lou williams as part of sign and trade (would be 8-9 million max we could do if amnesty amir)
    Raps get: lou wiliams, vujecic, iggy
    phili gets: demar, davis, jose

    looks like a much fairer deal and good for both sides.

    I remember doug smith reporting during lockout that raps were interested in williams.

    http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/201...t-finally.html

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    Quote mal1018 wrote: View Post
    Does anyone think this could mean a bigger trade with phili? I.e. including lou williams as part of sign and trade (would be 8-9 million max we could do if amnesty amir)
    Raps get: lou wiliams, vujecic, iggy
    phili gets: demar, davis, jose

    looks like a much fairer deal and good for both sides.

    I remember doug smith reporting during lockout that raps were interested in williams.

    http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/201...t-finally.html
    I could be wrong and I'd have to double check the CBA-FAQ, but I believe if you rescind a QO, thereby renouncing an RFA, you can no longer S&T them. ie: Toronto can't S&T Bayless and Philly can't S&T Williams, as they are now UFAs.

  16. #216
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I've been thinking about it and I would be very much in favour of getting Iggy and giving up Demar, ED or whoever. Not just because I think Demar and ED are never going to be great players but also because this team needs a guy like Iguodala who is a smart veteran, has been part of a team that went from shit to playoff team and even took arguably the 3rd or 4th best team in the league to 7 games. He knows what part he plays in the team and is ok just being a catalyst out there, not needing the stats.

    We have him for 2 years in which he becomes the on-court leader and showing the younger guys how to play smart, efficient basketball, especially on D, and if he leaves after 2 years so be it, our guys gain a ton of knowledge and they stop being stuck in this losing, woe is me mentality. Every team needs a strong veteran presence, and that's something that Rudy Gay and his points can't give.
    So lets say we get iggy for 2 years...then what our guys are all superstars because they played with iggy?

    And for veteran leadership...what about calderon..is he not a vet?

    I get that the 3 needs and upgrade but you cant be giving up the future for a 2 year rent on a guy will make us mediocre

  17. #217
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I could be wrong and I'd have to double check the CBA-FAQ, but I believe if you rescind a QO, thereby renouncing an RFA, you can no longer S&T them. ie: Toronto can't S&T Bayless and Philly can't S&T Williams, as they are now UFAs.
    I think thats for restricted free agents...nash was unrestricted and he went on a sign and trade to LA

  18. #218
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I could be wrong and I'd have to double check the CBA-FAQ, but I believe if you rescind a QO, thereby renouncing an RFA, you can no longer S&T them. ie: Toronto can't S&T Bayless and Philly can't S&T Williams, as they are now UFAs.
    I think you're right about sign and trade if you renounce on RFA but i thought Lou was unrestricted

  19. #219
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote geo wrote: View Post
    I think thats for restricted free agents...nash was unrestricted and he went on a sign and trade to LA
    But they still had his rights, same as Toronto has now for Gray. Now that Bayless' QO has been rescinded, I'm not sure if they still maintain rights (similar to Nash & Gray) or if he's been fully renounced.

  20. #220
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    But they still had his rights, same as Toronto has now for Gray. Now that Bayless' QO has been rescinded, I'm not sure if they still maintain rights (similar to Nash & Gray) or if he's been fully renounced.
    Larry Coon says yes, Bayless can be traded:
    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q88

    88. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

    There is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under this rule the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract stipulating that the contract is null and void if the trade to the specific team is not completed within 48 hours. To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:

    The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
    The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
    The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 43).
    Starting in 2013-14, the team receiving the player cannot be above the "apron" ($4 million above the tax level) after the trade1.
    Starting in 2013-14, the team cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade if they have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (see question number 25) that season.
    The trade must be completed prior to the first game of the regular season (sign-and-trades are not allowed once the season begins).
    The player cannot be signed using the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, or any exception that cannot be used to offer a three-year contract (see question number 25).

    A sign-and-trade deal can be made with a free agent who has been renounced, as long as all the above criteria are met. Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons. The first year of the contract must be fully guaranteed, but the remaining seasons can be non-guaranteed. The combination of a three-year minimum with a one-year guarantee ensures that the player's new team cannot acquire the player's Bird rights any sooner than if they had signed him directly (if they wanted to re-sign him in less than three years they would first have to waive him, and lose any Bird rights -- see question number 32).

    Bayless should fit the criteria outlined by Larry in his FAQ. That's why I think BC has something brewing.

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