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Thread: Raptors in discussion with 76ers for Igoudala (Thorn denies rumor (#163)

  1. #181
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    If anything, means we dont have to trade Derozan to get AI. AI is now ever expandable.
    True. And with Brand being amnestied, I wonder if Calderon/Bayless and Davis/Amir would be enough?

  2. #182
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    You know, at this point I think Deng is my choice as well. I think he's a better option than Iguodala, definitely, and I think the Bulls *should* be motivated to get a high-quality PG who can start all year in 2012-13. Unless they've simply written off this season while they wait for Rose to return. Jose seems like a perfect one-season solution, doesn't he?

    Calderon and Ed works. Exchange Davis for James Johnson if they'd prefer a SF in return.

    Lowry / Bayless
    Derozan / Ross
    Deng / Kleiza / Acy/Johnson
    Bargnani / Amir / Acy/Davis
    Valanciunas / Gray

    seems like a decent rotation to me.
    I was initially high on Deng, but worry that with him continuing to put off surgery and reinjuring himself, that there could be too much risk involved. The fact that he is younger and under contract longer than Iggy are both positives, but I worry that he's a much bigger injury risk.

  3. #183
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was initially high on Deng, but worry that with him continuing to put off surgery and reinjuring himself, that there could be too much risk involved. The fact that he is younger and under contract longer than Iggy are both positives, but I worry that he's a much bigger injury risk.
    i am really on the fence with iggy and deng i cant make up my mind. I think if we can give up only calderon/ed or amir/JJ for either one id do it...but anything else is too much imo.

  4. #184
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote geo wrote: View Post
    i am really on the fence with iggy and deng i cant make up my mind. I think if we can give up only calderon/ed or amir/JJ for either one id do it...but anything else is too much imo.
    Amir/Davis, JJ, Calderon and/or Bayless are all 100% expendable now, so giving up any/all of them to improve the starting SF position wouldn't really be any loss at all, thanks to the depth BC has built.

    It would be worth looking into Deng, Iggy and Gay (though I'm certain Gay at least would require DeRozan in return, which I would do in a heartbeat).

  5. #185
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Wow ... Deng at this point would be perfect.

    A deal of Jose (cover for Rose as a quality starting PG, big expiring deal), and Ed (rookie scale $, Asik likely gone)

    We can then utilize JJ or Kleiza more at the PF spot and play very fast, using Amir as the bench C.

    On top of all this, Deng's surgery is much less of a big deal - considering Fields ability to play big SF minutes.

    Lowry/Bayless
    Demar/Ross
    Deng/Fields
    Bargnani/Kleiza
    Jonas/Amir
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  6. #186
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    This doesn't look bad.

    But I don' like iggy either. Rudy gay please.
    Rudy has (IMO) 2nd worst contract (after J Johnson). What did Hawks get for Joe? There is a reason why.
    We CANNOT take on such a contract (unless it is a proven, solid all star. I am sorry but Gay is a very good player, but marginal all star IFF that).
    How far did Gay lead Memphis (much better rest of the team than us) to?
    Neither Iggy nor Gay is worth it.

  7. #187
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    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    Rudy has (IMO) 2nd worst contract (after J Johnson). What did Hawks get for Joe? There is a reason why.
    We CANNOT take on such a contract (unless it is a proven, solid all star. I am sorry but Gay is a very good player, but marginal all star IFF that).
    How far did Gay lead Memphis (much better rest of the team than us) to?
    Neither Iggy nor Gay is worth it.
    Gay would be an enormous upgrade over any of our current wings and he's only 25 (will be 26 next season). Yes his contract is big (average $17.9M over next 3 seasons), but it wouldn't be a horrible cap hit if Toronto sent out some substantial salary in return (ie: some combination of Calderon - $10.5M, Amir - $6M, DeRozan - 3.3M, JJ - $2.8M, Davis - $2.2M, Bayless - $4+M).

    It's not entirely fair to compare Gay to Joe Johnson.
    Gay: 26 years old next season, average $17.9M over next 3 seasons
    Johnson: 31 years old next season, average $22.3M over next 4 seasons
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Jul 6th, 2012 at 12:36 PM.

  8. #188
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Wow ... Deng at this point would be perfect.

    A deal of Jose (cover for Rose as a quality starting PG, big expiring deal), and Ed (rookie scale $, Asik likely gone)

    We can then utilize JJ or Kleiza more at the PF spot and play very fast, using Amir as the bench C.

    On top of all this, Deng's surgery is much less of a big deal - considering Fields ability to play big SF minutes.
    IMO Deng makes a lot more sense (esp as above deal: for Jose & Ed) than either Iggy or Gay.
    1. Deng is much better scorer than Iggy.
    2. Deng is a much better defender than Gay.
    In both cases Deng makes a lot less money (esp as compared to Gay).
    Bulls might be desperate enough to go for this (they get a salary break in 2nd year & an adequate temporary replacement at PG till Rose gets back, as well as more than adequate replacement for Asik)
    Last edited by Mapko; Fri Jul 6th, 2012 at 12:46 PM.

  9. #189
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    johnhollinger John Hollinger
    RT @jrfingerCSN: Sixers source confirms that they will not re-sign Lou Williams

    Philly needs a PF and PG now... if only we knew a team that had depth to possibly address both areas of concern via trade, for a team that is now over the cap...

  10. #190
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Gay would be an enormous upgrade over any of our current wings and he's only 25 (will be 26 next season). Yes his contract is big (average $17.9M over next 3 seasons), but it wouldn't be a horrible cap hit if Toronto sent out some substantial salary in return (ie: some combination of Calderon - $10.5M, Amir - $6M, DeRozan - 3.3M, JJ - $2.8M, Davis - $2.2M, Bayless - $4+M).

    It's not entirely fair to compare Gay to Joe Johnson.
    Gay: 26 years old next season, average $17.9M over next 3 seasons
    Johnson: 31 years old next season, average $22.3M over next 4 seasons
    6 Players you mentioned above (Jose, DD, JJ, Ed, Amir & Bayless) COMBINED make less than $54 mil coming to Gay.
    1 or 2 or even 3 of those guys might be spare parts -but you need to replace (and pay) the rest.
    Still think it makes sense?
    Don't get me wrong. Rudy is a clear upgrade at SF, but $18 mil annually simply makes no sense (and yes it is fair to compare Gay to JJ: JJ might be older but he still contributes and is an all star).
    Second comparison: Compare above 6 guys to players Nets sent to Hawks -You don't think they are not worth $4.4 mil (diff between Gay's & JJ's salary)?
    Last edited by Mapko; Fri Jul 6th, 2012 at 12:50 PM.

  11. #191
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    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    IMO Deng makes a lot more sense (esp as above deal: for Jose & Ed) than either Iggy or Gay.
    1. Deng is much better scorer than Iggy.
    2. Deng is a much better defender than Gay.
    In both cases Deng makes a lot less money (esp as compared to Gay).
    Bulls might be desperate enough to go for this (they get a salary break in 2nd year & an adequate temporary replacement at PG till Rose gets back, as well as more than adequate replacement for Asik)
    as long as we don't have to give up on Demar. It could be his breakout year.

  12. #192
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    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    6 guys you mentioned above (Jose, DD, JJ, Ed, Amir & Bayless) COMBINED make less than 54 mil coming to Gay.
    1 or 2 or even 3 of those guys might be spare parts -but you need to replace (and pay) the rest.
    Still think it makes sense?
    Don't get me wrong. Rudy is a clear upgrade at SF, but 18 mil annually simply makes no sense (and yes it is fair to compare Gay to JJ: JJ might be older but he still contributes and is an all star).
    Yes, I think Gay is absolutely worth it. Assuming Calderon isn't part of the team moving forward, the only big cap-hits Toronto has are (next season numbers):

    Bargnani - $10.0M
    Fields - $6.2M
    Amir - $6.05M
    Lowry - $5.75M
    Kleiza - $4.6M

    Toronto would have the cap room to afford Rudy Gay, so I don't really care how much he costs - I'm not paying him. Is he perhaps a few million overpaid? Probably. But he is young and would be a part of the Raptors' young core group of players for the next 5-8 years.

    A Toronto wing rotation of Gay/Kleiza at SF and Fields/Ross at SG would be fantastic. DeRozan and JJ wouldn't be the least bit missed.

    And remember, DeRozan and JJ both expire after next season, meaning they'd both be in line for big paydays. DD's qualifying offer is a little over $4.5M and JJ's is a little over $3.95M. Davis' contract also expires after next season, but the Raptors have 1 more option year ($3.15M) and then after two seasons his qualifying offer is a little over $4.36M. That is 3 big paydays for the young/cheap players that many seem reluctant to trade for a proven borderline all-star like Rudy Gay, so those 3 big paydays need to be factored into any financial comparison as well.

    I understand reluctance to go after Iggy or Deng, given their age, injury history and contract size. However, I think Gay is one SF that is a no brainer to go after, offering up Calderon & DeRozan & Davis & JJ.

  13. #193
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    Quote geo wrote: View Post
    did the memphis grizzlies say that hasheem thabeet was a better replacement to marc gasol when they picked him at 2..no because he didnt play a minute in the league and coundt keep up. I hope TR doesnt end up like thabeet but its not a gaurentee he will be good let alone be a starting 2 as rookie
    Yet, word is, that at the time they drafted him because they didn't have a lot of faith in Gasol. Just an aside.

  14. #194
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    johnhollinger John Hollinger
    RT @jrfingerCSN: Sixers source confirms that they will not re-sign Lou Williams

    Philly needs a PF and PG now... if only we knew a team that had depth to possibly address both areas of concern via trade, for a team that is now over the cap...
    Nick young has signed with them.

    I can see them playing with Turner and Holliday as their point guards

  15. #195
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    Nick young has signed with them.
    Yup. But they still need a PF (they only have Thad Young and Moultrie) and PG (they only have Holiday).

    I wonder if Calderon & Davis would be enough for Iggy, allowing Toronto to upgrade the starting SF position and add veteran leadership, without having to giveup DeRozan. I'd even throw in JJ.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Jul 6th, 2012 at 01:05 PM.

  16. #196
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    wasn't sure what Iggy's contract was like... so looked it up...

    NO. please dear god NO.

    He gets paid like basketball royalty when he's upper middle class at best
    This is true, but we would get Vucevic as well, who, if Apollo is right (and I think he is) will be a very servicable rotation big man. And he is very cheap; 1,7 this year with teamoptions for 2 13/14 and 14/15 for 1,7 and 2,7. Iguodala is on the book for this year and can opt out after this year. He might do that if he wants longer term security even if it's for less money (see Richard Jefferson for unexpected opt outs) and get something like 30/40 for 3/4 years. If you think Vucevic is crap look only at Iguodala's salary; otherwise look at the combination.

    I don't really mind which way we go, I'm easily satisfied. I do think Iguodala is a better fit with Lowry because of his passing (compared with Deng). I'm actually not minding any talk about the treadmill of mediocrity and stuff; I think there is upside, but more importantly, I'd like to get mediocre for once!

  17. #197
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Yup. But they still need a PF (they only have Thad Young and Moultrie) and PG (they only have Holiday).

    I wonder if Calderon & Davis would be enough for Iggy, allowing Toronto to upgrade the starting SF position and add veteran leadership, without having to giveup DeRozan. I'd even throw in JJ.
    id be surprised if phili gave up iggy for calderon,davis and JJ..i think they would shop him for picks. If BC can swing iggy for those 3 guys i think we are a legit playoff contender...might even get the 4th or 5th seed

  18. #198
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    Were a deal for Iggy to materialize, would you prefer it to be:

    1. Calderon/Davis/JJ

    or

    2. Calderon/Amir/DD

    I would personally like to see Davis stay and develop another few years with the Raps more than I would Derozan.

  19. #199
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    The trade being discussed has about as much ground as this trade:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7o2k39t

    Even though BC is in "win-now mode", I don't see him giving up on DeMar anytime soon, and especially not for an injury-prone player on the decline.

  20. #200
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    Quote Alexander wrote: View Post
    Were a deal for Iggy to materialize, would you prefer it to be:

    1. Calderon/Davis/JJ

    or

    2. Calderon/Amir/DD

    I would personally like to see Davis stay and develop another few years with the Raps more than I would Derozan.
    My ultimate preference would be for Calderon/Amir/JJ going. I expect Philly would want Davis (younger & cheaper) instead of Amir. After signing Nick Young to backup Evans, I doubt Philly would have as much need for DeRozan (and I'd prefer not to give him up, unless for Gay).

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