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Thread: Raptors in discussion with 76ers for Igoudala (Thorn denies rumor (#163)

  1. #81
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    I'm neutral about this trade but your reasons for not liking it are invalid. Bargnani is statistically better than Demar. Also Iggy is not injury prone. He has missed a total of 25 games in his 8 years in the league. 15 of them came from a single injury. The whole point of this trade is that we have made these players expendable. By obtaining Lowry we have an above average starting point guard in no longer need Jose when we could trade him for team needs. We also have Ross or fields, who you can't compare to Demar because Ross hasn't played a minute and fields was better than Demar before NYK got melo then his numbers dipped. I think either one would be a serviceable starter and by adding Iggy we get a solid starter at our weakest position. We give up 2/3 of our best players yes but we also now have the pieces that make those players not needed.
    You know that Bargnani didn't qualify to be ranked thanks to his injury riddled season right?
    --you know that part where I put in brackets (I know Bargs....)
    Can you read?
    Hooked on phonics?

    Iggy has been playing injured for a while. If you left Raptors boards and went on other team boards you would know this

    I never said don't trade Demar, Jose, or Ed. Trade them all if it's a good move!
    I said this trade doesn't work...Can you READ!

  2. #82
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    Quote LateBoomer wrote: View Post
    There's more than the stats of course,
    but all things considered, TR can be a better player than DD.
    Right now, TR is the better shooter, better ballhandler, better defender.
    How can you say that when he hasnt played a game yet...i just disagree. I havent watched TR play but he is being labeled better as a shooter fine...but there is no way you can say TR is a better replacement without playing a minute.

    I refuse to believe that

    did the memphis grizzlies say that hasheem thabeet was a better replacement to marc gasol when they picked him at 2..no because he didnt play a minute in the league and coundt keep up. I hope TR doesnt end up like thabeet but its not a gaurentee he will be good let alone be a starting 2 as rookie
    Last edited by geo; Thu Jul 5th, 2012 at 09:31 PM.

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Rookie pillowmint's Avatar
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    Honestly those who think shipping out DD and Jose and whatever else for Iggy...you are HOMERS, not even going to sugar coat that. HOMERS.

    Having a great offensive/defensive player like Iggy versus DD and Jose is a flat out steal. I love Jose, but we have Lowry and I'm ok giving him the reins. And DD has not become the player we had hoped, he just hasn't. Sure we could give him another year, but why when you could have a consistent player like Iggy?

    Look at the line up it's not even a playoff team, it's a good playoff team

    Lowry
    Fields
    Iggy
    Bargs
    Valc

    If Val turns out to actually be the steal of last years draft, then who even knows how good this team could be.

    I say ship em' out...bye bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out!
    i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

  4. #84
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    ...But don't believe me I insist

    Iguodala has played through this issue for much of the season and it appears to popping back up at a very inopportune time. While we would expect the 28-year-old to try and play through his injury moving forward, if he can't, the 76ers might be in trouble. Coach Doug Collins likes a good portion of the offense to run through Iguodala, which is only part of what makes his presence on the floor so important. Keep an eye on his status moving forward. Iguodala can be considered a high-end option in all formats when healthy.
    (Updated 05/02/2012).
    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players...age/498289/rss

  5. #85
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    No need to get hostile, he was just sharing his opinion

  6. #86
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    My bad Raptor_11.

  7. #87
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    Quote pillowmint wrote: View Post
    Honestly those who think shipping out DD and Jose and whatever else for Iggy...you are HOMERS, not even going to sugar coat that. HOMERS.

    Having a great offensive/defensive player like Iggy versus DD and Jose is a flat out steal. I love Jose, but we have Lowry and I'm ok giving him the reins. And DD has not become the player we had hoped, he just hasn't. Sure we could give him another year, but why when you could have a consistent player like Iggy?


    Look at the line up it's not even a playoff team, it's a good playoff team

    Lowry
    Fields
    Iggy
    Bargs
    Valc

    If Val turns out to actually be the steal of last years draft, then who even knows how good this team could be.

    I say ship em' out...bye bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out!
    Because your giving up a 10 mil expiring contract, a rookie contract for one of the worst contracts in the league....iggy is ok but he is not worth that money. And if demar improves and we make this trade we will regret it for years

    phili flat out wins this trade

  8. #88
    Raptors Republic Rookie CB4's Avatar
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    Quote LateBoomer wrote: View Post
    There's more than the stats of course,
    but all things considered, TR can be a better player than DD.
    Right now, TR is the better shooter, better ballhandler, better defender.
    How do you know all those things? People said DeMar was a good defender and rebounder in college and look out how that turned out. You simply don't know how his game will translate to the NBA.

    There are far too many reasons why simply comparing DD and TR based on their college stats and saying TR is better is unsubstantial. You said TR had better college stats; DeMar actually had better freshmen stats and was drafted as a freshman. Not to mention DD is only one year older than TR and has three more years on NBA experience. So I don't buy the fact TR is a better player right now.

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    if granger is an option it be too funny mulling trade options on 2 SF who the raps passed on in the draft in order to pick complete duds in hoffa & graham LOL
    lol yeah, but now is a good time to correct those mistakes and will try to forget the past decade

  10. #90
    Raptors Republic Rookie Imperial's Avatar
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    Not sold on Iggy's ability to create his own shot. Raptors have been missing a premium scorer who can make a shot in the clutch/shot clock winding down. I'm just not too comfortable saying, "Oh, we're giving Iggy the chance to win the game." Maybe if we can get him without giving up both Calderon AND DeRozan. One or the other.

  11. #91
    Raptors Republic Rookie LateBoomer's Avatar
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    Quote geo wrote: View Post
    How can you say that when he hasnt played a game yet...i just disagree. I havent watched TR play but he is being labeled better as a shooter fine...but there is no way you can say TR is a better replacement without playing a minute.

    I refuse to believe that
    That's the problem, you haven't seen him play yet.
    Milwaukee Bucks Assistant GM Jeff Weltman (from the Bucks team website):

    "I think he's going to be a better NBA shooter as his body matures and he gets used to the range and the distance. He's got a really mechanically sound jump shot and he elevates. He's got NBA written all over him as far as his size, his athletic ability. It's very rare you get a guy who is a good shooter and can generate his own shot. He's a guy who can get if off the dribble and get it in the mid-range, get it out on the floor and still have the same mechanics."

    Philadelphia 76ers Director of Player Personnel Courtney Witte (from the Sixers team website):

    "As good as he is on the offensive end, he does things defensively that you can't teach. He's got a big upside to him. His shooting numbers are pretty good. I wouldn't put him up there with Reggie Miller, obviously, but he's a shooter and a scorer. He's going to have a long NBA career."

  12. #92
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    Quote LateBoomer wrote: View Post
    That's the problem, you haven't seen him play yet.
    Milwaukee Bucks Assistant GM Jeff Weltman (from the Bucks team website):

    "I think he's going to be a better NBA shooter as his body matures and he gets used to the range and the distance. He's got a really mechanically sound jump shot and he elevates. He's got NBA written all over him as far as his size, his athletic ability. It's very rare you get a guy who is a good shooter and can generate his own shot. He's a guy who can get if off the dribble and get it in the mid-range, get it out on the floor and still have the same mechanics."

    Philadelphia 76ers Director of Player Personnel Courtney Witte (from the Sixers team website):

    "As good as he is on the offensive end, he does things defensively that you can't teach. He's got a big upside to him. His shooting numbers are pretty good. I wouldn't put him up there with Reggie Miller, obviously, but he's a shooter and a scorer. He's going to have a long NBA career."
    dude TR hasnt played a minute in a game...he is not better than demar just stop...its not like TR was a hyped number 1 prospect...he is a mid lotto pick and frankly he is a reach. I hope he turns into a great player but he is not better. Thats like saying jeremy lamb is better than kevin martin...no

  13. #93
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    Quote LateBoomer wrote: View Post
    Philly actually loses on this trade-

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7ku3zhv
    Whoa you just blew my mind! According to Hollinger, we don't improve, destroy any cap flexibility for three years, but, Philly gets worse? Wow.

  14. #94
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    I am out on the DeRozen era. Just not buying that he's a starter or has any really special, valuable skill. I also think Ed Davis is a borderline rotation player at his ceiling. Iggy's got a price tag beyond his worth, but it's not a length that will cripple us. It will be sad when Jose goes, but the writing's on the wall. I like this trade from our perspective.

    I'm not sure Philly takes the deal. They are not getting one starter back. And I think they are hoping to use AI and a few other assets to fetch a bigger prize. And they had some nice playoff moments last season and may want to ride the good vibes with the current roster for another year. but, they've got to be feeling some pressure down there to move Iggy, and maybe we'll get a ill-advised move out of them.

    Edit: Specifically on Iggy... I like the idea of matching him with Lowry to really create a defensive force on the wings. He's not much of the threat offensively on his own, but he's got the professionalism, passing ability and hustle to be a piece of an efficient offense. Now if only we weren't wasting our $ on Fields...
    Last edited by NoBan; Thu Jul 5th, 2012 at 09:58 PM.

  15. #95
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    You know that Bargnani didn't qualify to be ranked thanks to his injury riddled season right?
    --you know that part where I put in brackets (I know Bargs....)
    Can you read?
    Hooked on phonics?

    Iggy has been playing injured for a while. If you left Raptors boards and went on other team boards you would know this

    I never said don't trade Demar, Jose, or Ed. Trade them all if it's a good move!
    I said this trade doesn't work...Can you READ!
    Lol first, gotta love the hostile rebuddle no need to take it so offensively. Second you misread my point. I wasnt saying you think we shouldn't trade them im saying we afford to for worse talent. No doubt talent-wise Philli gets the better end of the trade. However raptors still get better through this trade because now we have Lowry to replace Calderon and Ross/fields to replace Derozan. And yes I know they are worse than Demar but not by the amount of +side we get from Igoudala. I agree if a better trade comes go for it but if this is the only offer we get, do it. Because even though we lose the trade talent for talent our team as a whole gets better. And even though the quote you posted was close to the end of the season, he was still able to finish off the season and now has the entire offseason to recover. I'm not to worried because if he's been playing with an injury it shows he's willing to persevere. You wanna argue it'll get worse and it'll end his career? His contract is up soon we'll drop his ass and have better options available via trade or free agency because we'll be able to absorb larger contracts. Again no need to take offense. It's just my opinion against yours.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    He's a good passer, but not necessarily a good creator. Calderon is also a good passer, but can't create anything in an ISO.
    True, but with lowry, ross and bargs lurking on the wings and all have solid slashing ability it may not be that big of an issue.

    It's really hard to find that great ISO player the only non-all stars that fit in that category are young guys who may become allstars Gay, Harden, Curry, Wall, Iriving ect. basically untouchables - an exception being Mayo, maybe? -- which is why granger would be great he can handle ISO and has been an allstar

  17. #97
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    Lol first, gotta love the hostile rebuddle no need to take it so offensively. Second you misread my point. I wasnt saying you think we shouldn't trade them im saying we afford to for worse talent. No doubt talent-wise Philli gets the better end of the trade. However raptors still get better through this trade because now we have Lowry to replace Calderon and Ross/fields to replace Derozan. And yes I know they are worse than Demar but not by the amount of +side we get from Igoudala. I agree if a better trade comes go for it but if this is the only offer we get, do it. Because even though we lose the trade talent for talent our team as a whole gets better. And even though the quote you posted was close to the end of the season, he was still able to finish off the season and now has the entire offseason to recover. I'm not to worried because if he's been playing with an injury it shows he's willing to persevere. You wanna argue it'll get worse and it'll end his career? His contract is up soon we'll drop his ass and have better options available via trade or free agency because we'll be able to absorb larger contracts. Again no need to take offense. It's just my opinion against yours.
    Hey why dont you learn to read you piece of sh*&.

  18. #98
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    We never had Hibbert. That pick was made on behalf of the Pacers (they chose him). Had we kept the pick, we may not have even selected Hibbert.
    Funny how that still needs to be explained. You'd think if someone was a fan enough to remember him being drafted by the team, that they'd be a fan enough to know he wasn't our choice. I swear there was a thread on this sorta thing just yesterday...

  19. #99
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    Funny how that still needs to be explained. You'd think if someone was a fan enough to remember him being drafted by the team, that they'd be a fan enough to know he wasn't our choice. I swear there was a thread on this sorta thing just yesterday...
    I think we would have taken him. We had a need there (esp with no JO trade), he was a proven college producer, and had slipped to that spot unjustly.

  20. #100
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    I'd do it in a heartbeat.

    Yes, the price is steep. But the fit is excellent.

    No, it doesn't give the Raps a dominant offensive wing to win you games down the stretch with hero ball, but frankly they weren't going to get that anyway and DeRozan isn't that guy either. Nor will he ever be. He doesn't have the handle or the instincts. Or the jumper. If you think differently, you haven't been paying attention over the last three years.

    What it does give you is someone who fits nearly perfectly with the team as presently constructed. The defensive potential of Lowry, Ross/Fields and Iggy on the perimeter should have every fan drooling, and would go a long way toward hiding Bargs. If Val and Ross both turn out to be plus defenders, that'd make for one hell of a defensive team.

    On offense, a trio of Bargs, Iguodala and Lowry is a nice collection of beta scorers who can distribute the shots and who each bring something different to the table. Iggy's ideal role is as a part-time point forward, which would suit Lowry perfectly. It adds another guy with good-not-great three point range, but means that, assuming Ross and/or Fields can live up to their potential in that area, suddenly the Raps can hit from downtown one through four; that's a nice collection to have spacing the floor. Then there's the transition potential on top of it all.

    So no, this doesn't give the Raps their superstar. But what it does give them is a very solid team that, in two years' time, would have all the flexibility in the world with Lowry and Iggy coming off the books together, and hopefully a dramatically increased profile that should help them make a splash with it.

    There are no home runs to be hit for the Raps in the immediate future. But this collection of singles and doubles could still see them cashing in a lot of runs down the line.

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