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Thread: Johnson A Possible Amnesty Cut?

  1. #21
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If amnesting Amir leads to the Raptors landing a really good piece then I'm sold. Just look at it as Amir were part of the trade. Essentially he would be as the trade could not happen in this scenario without him leaving the books.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I'm trying to understand why Jose's expiring contract has value to some other team. but not to the Raptors? Can someone help me out? Am I that dense. Don't be kind, feed me the truth.
    The way I've read comments about the value of Calderon's expiring contract, is specifically why other teams would value him, not only other teams though. Some teams would value Calderon just for what he offers on the court - veteran leadership, pass first PG, team player. Other teams might like the idea of dropping a big long-term contract for an expiring one, to clear cap space for next offseason.

    I think the Raptors see value for both reasons, or the idea of keeping him and re-signing him beyond next season, for much cheaper.

  3. #23
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I'm trying to understand why Jose's expiring contract has value to some other team. but not to the Raptors? Can someone help me out? Am I that dense. Don't be kind, feed me the truth.
    Because the Raptors aren't fighting to stay below the tax threshold. They don't need cap relief next year. All cap relief will do for them is reduce their payroll number closer to the salary cap. It won't reduce their payroll to the point that they can be free agent buyers next off-season, not to accomplish anything significant that they couldn't do with the MLE. If they can't be buyers with the expiring contract and they're not fighting the tax threshold then who is his expiring deal benefiting? Not you the fan when his deal runs out and he potentially leaves free.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote jbml wrote: View Post
    Things slow down.They have to write something. Can't see this happening
    +1 yes.

    this is just a glorified blog hack looking up and down salary of Raps and throwing darts in the dark.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie Fanchie's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Pfft, I don't believe it.

    In related news, look at this picture I found! (Awwwww)



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  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    \]
    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I'm trying to understand why Jose's expiring contract has value to some other team. but not to the Raptors? Can someone help me out? Am I that dense. Don't be kind, feed me the truth.
    It has value in the sense that it could be included in a trade package for a larger, longer term contract. Think Joe Johnson .. if you were ATL (before you traded him to to the Nets) .. you can argue that swapping him for Jose + other stuff is a good thing because instead of oweing JJ another 4 years 80 mm, you owe Jose 10 mm next year and thats it. Similar if we traded JC to LAL for Artest. So .. its not so much value per se, its value relative to another, worse contract. The theory is that if you take on a worse contract, you would either get a better player (in the case of JJ) or get draft picks or something else thrown in (in the case of an Artest)

    I think its actually a bit of an exageration of how people refer to expiring as so valuable. Yes, in the right situation, it provides a trade chip .. but there are lots of ways to trade for high contract players (see the Nets / Joe Johnson trade). The defense of the Fields contract as being ok because the $9mm will be an "asset" at the end is some of the worst logic I have ever heard ...

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    most teams will try very hard to not be tax payers for 3 years out of 5. the penalties for this are very severe. new york and los angeles could most likely be the only teams willing to do it in the future. mark cuban is cutting his spending. thats how valuable that expirings are going to be.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    \]

    It has value in the sense that it could be included in a trade package for a larger, longer term contract. Think Joe Johnson .. if you were ATL (before you traded him to to the Nets) .. you can argue that swapping him for Jose + other stuff is a good thing because instead of oweing JJ another 4 years 80 mm, you owe Jose 10 mm next year and thats it. ...
    So then the Raps are on the hook for the stupidly large contract.

    Bite the bullet for a year, use Jose in the second unit, where he can work his magic with Jonas or Amir, or whoever, and then Raps can make him an offer on a new contract that is cheaper (4-5 million for a couple of years) and have some cap relief themselves. Jose would be an excellent back-up PG. If he is traded, will any new back-up PG bring equal value over the following few years? By all the stats available, Jose is one of the Raps better players. His defensive lapses will be diminished with the new staff coming on-board. That makes him more valuable, in my opinion.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that after this season the luxury tax becomes quite punative. A team might be willing to get rid of a good/decent player with a long contract to avoid the massive luxury tax penalties.

  10. #30
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    +1 yes.

    this is just a glorified blog hack looking up and down salary of Raps and throwing darts in the dark.
    +1 again

    why would we amnesty him? he will be even more useful this year in a reserve role....In fact we shouldn't be amnestying anybody unless it means we are picking up a superior talent. AMir and Calderon have value...it would be a completely idiotic move

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    By now BC should have a pretty good what Jose is worth having tried to trade him for a bit now. The statement that the Raps are going to keeo Jose to backup Lowry I think is meant to dampen thoughts out there that Jose could be got on the cheap after an amnesty and so encourage the trade scenario.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
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    The only player Colangelo has ever mentioned in the context of Amnesty is Jose Calderon and only when talking about signing a big free agent (who was obviously Steve Nash at the time). And you have to read into Colangelo's comments to interpret that answer because Colangelo will never say anything directly except he has flexibility.

    Colangelo is extremely careful about what he says to the media - he would never directly say the Raptors would amnesty anyone until it was a sure thing. That "Note" at the end of the insider report about amnestying Amir carefully does not include a reference to a source - it's pure speculation based on opinion.

    And Colangelo will happily tell anyone who asks that Coach Casey loves Calderon.
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  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Something else to remember is Amir was coming off surgery last summer which he reportedly put off too long at the start of last summer (if my memory serves correct).

    He was limited to just upper body workouts last year.

    I hope he is working hard this summer.

    He is a great big off the bench when healthy.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    It is really frustrating to read what some posters on RR and other writers have to say about Amir. Not one person has given a legitimate reason why we should amnesty Amir. Most will try and bring up his contract, I say put up some numbers of guys making similiar coin and let's talk. I'm not sure if it was Matt or another poster who put up a list of comparable forwards making the same money and their stats a few months ago. I was pleasantly surprised and am still firmly in his bandwagon, as long as he is our reserve big man/emergency starter.

  15. #35
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Phat Farmer wrote: View Post
    It is really frustrating to read what some posters on RR and other writers have to say about Amir. Not one person has given a legitimate reason why we should amnesty Amir. Most will try and bring up his contract, I say put up some numbers of guys making similiar coin and let's talk. I'm not sure if it was Matt or another poster who put up a list of comparable forwards making the same money and their stats a few months ago. I was pleasantly surprised and am still firmly in his bandwagon, as long as he is our reserve big man/emergency starter.
    The only "legitimate" reason I've seen posted, is if the cap space is urgently needed to faciliate a blockbuster trade and BC is unable to find an acceptable trade for Amir that would also clear sufficient cap space. That scenario would essentially be like including Amir in the blockbuster trade, but having to pay his salary (minus whatever amount he winds up getting signed for off waivers/free agency). Other than that, I agree that there's no point to amnesty him.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    The only "legitimate" reason I've seen posted, is if the cap space is urgently needed to faciliate a blockbuster trade and BC is unable to find an acceptable trade for Amir that would also clear sufficient cap space. That scenario would essentially be like including Amir in the blockbuster trade, but having to pay his salary (minus whatever amount he winds up getting signed for off waivers/free agency). Other than that, I agree that there's no point to amnesty him.


    Thanks for that CalgaryRapsFan, I did read that post earlier from Apollo, and i'm totally onboard with that line of thinking. My post was more directed to the posters and writers who write him off as a bad contract, with nothing factual to back up their opinions. I'm fine with the Raps trading him for the better of the team, I just dont see it as a necessity to amnesty anyone on our team as some others do.

  17. #37
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Something else to remember is Amir was coming off surgery last summer which he reportedly put off too long at the start of last summer (if my memory serves correct).

    He was limited to just upper body workouts last year.

    I hope he is working hard this summer.

    He is a great big off the bench when healthy.
    +1

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I haven't seen that article but I think from what was quoted it looked more like a hypothetical, looking at each team and saying "If a team finds themselves in a situation where a player needed to be Amnestied, who would it be."

    To me that guy is Amir Johnson for these reasons:
    (a) He's the most logical of the 3 (Calderon, Kleiza, Johnson) because we have many who play his position and he has the most years remaining combined with salary.
    (b) He's not really part of the future unless Ed Davis is traded.
    (d) $7M is a bit high for a 7th man.

    I wouldn't really worry though, because there's absolutely no reason to amnesty him unless we are making room for a better player. If that happens, you should be glad we amnestied him.
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  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Because the Raptors aren't fighting to stay below the tax threshold. They don't need cap relief next year. All cap relief will do for them is reduce their payroll number closer to the salary cap. It won't reduce their payroll to the point that they can be free agent buyers next off-season, not to accomplish anything significant that they couldn't do with the MLE. If they can't be buyers with the expiring contract and they're not fighting the tax threshold then who is his expiring deal benefiting? Not you the fan when his deal runs out and he potentially leaves free.
    Thank you. I missed the obvious. Get rid of Calderon. :-)

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