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Thread: OFFICIAL: James Johnson sent to Kings for 2nd Rounder

  1. #181
    Raptors Republic Rookie JStockton's Avatar
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    Quote Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
    Bro JStockton,

    I'm a wookie and was trying to show your quote responding to the original quote of the individual hating this trade.
    But only your quote appeard.

    My error sir and I mean no harm to you nor anyone. But yes am in agreement....this move was okay and have no complains on it. We move forward.

    Keep pounding the Rock BC until we have a diamond.
    Point taken. We are both rookies after all.

  2. #182
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    "it's OK if an agent bends him over backward because it happens to others as well"

    I've already made arguments that BC is accountable for the high level media plan of the team.
    First off that wasn't my point nor a quote of anything I said. You obviously want to believe he's too nice to the agents who are incredibly powerful. So you think its a bad idea to do good business with people who have the power to really help or screw you down the road? for real?

    Secondly you have made arguments about BC and the media. What you fail to understand is those arguments are baseless and frankly further show your ignorance about how a multi tiered, billion dollar, publicly traded company is run. I provided the link to MLSEs sales department. It clearly states they sell Raptors Broadcasts and other NBA broadcasts. BC is an EMPLOYEE of MLSE responsible for the ON COURT product of the NBA TEAM. He has no say in their marketing campaigns, promotions, community outreach, television or radio Broadcasts. He has NOTHING to do with the guys in the booth, the guys in the media scrum, the guys who call the game or run the in house contests. He does not choose who or where to sell the individual game packages to.

    BC is responsible for players and staff that deal directly with the players (i.e. doctors, trainers, equipment handlers, spokesmen, math heads, etc) he and his team make decisions that will obviously affect the profit margin of his department and then present those decisions to a board of governors who say yay or nay. That's it. Do you really think he has time to approve ads and sit down with TSN to negotiate per game fees? The media plan is devised by the media company (one similar to the one I work for and it changes quite often) hired by MLSE not the Raptors directly (I personally know this to be true because I have worked directly on MLSE content in the past). Your argument is fundamentally flawed, like James Johnsons jumper, baseless and untrue no matter how you want to reword it. BC is NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW THE TEAM IS PRESENTED TO US.
    Last edited by minks77; Mon Jul 16th, 2012 at 05:15 PM.

  3. #183
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    First off that wasn't my point nor a quote of anything I said. You obviously want to believe he's too nice to the agents who are incredibly powerful. So you think its a bad idea to do good business with people who have the power to really help or screw you down the road? for real?

    Secondly you have made arguments about BC and the media. What you fail to understand is those arguments are baseless and frankly further show your ignorance about how a multi tiered, billion dollar, publicly traded company is run. I provided the link to MLSEs sales department. It clearly states they sell Raptors Broadcasts and other NBA broadcasts. BC is an EMPLOYEE of MLSE responsible for the ON COURT product of the NBA TEAM. He has no say in their marketing campaigns, promotions, community outreach, television or radio Broadcasts. He has NOTHING to do with the guys in the booth, the guys in the media scrum, the guys who call the game or run the in house contests. He does not choose who or where to sell the individual game packages to.

    BC is responsible for players and staff that deal directly with the players (i.e. doctors, trainers, equipment handlers, spokesmen, math heads, etc) he and his team make decisions that will obviously affect the profit margin of his department and then present those decisions to a board of governors who say yay or nay. That's it. Do you really think he has time to approve ads and sit down with TSN to negotiate per game fees? The media plan is devised by the media company (one similar to the one I work for and it changes quite often) hired by MLSE not the Raptors directly (I personally know this to be true because I have worked directly on MLSE content in the past). Your argument is fundamentally flawed, like James Johnsons jumper, baseless and untrue no matter how you want to reword it. BC is NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW THE TEAM IS PRESENTED TO US.
    I understand this is the internet, but please can somebody post a rebuttle/coutnerpoint without resorting to "youre ignorant!" Jeeze guys, youre never going to win an argument while directly insulting your opposition. In fact, insults like these virtually guarantee you will not reach consensus.

    You childish, uneducated, smelly, fat fool!!!!! (see how it adds nothing).

    theres got to be some link between what happens on the court and what gets covered in the media. "Pound the Rock" is a good example. I imagine that BC definitely OK'd the decision to use that as the team's marketing basis last season. The media coverage and the bball product are not mutually exclusive. The media department was probably not running JJ commercials this week, becuase BC would have let them know something is up. At least this is the way it should work. BC should be in charge of the outword messaging regarding his product. If he isn't then he's not doing a good enough job in that area. This extends to the establishment of a strategy on where the team gets coverage.

    Also thank you to Matt, planetmars and others who have posted counter points without getting petty.

  4. #184
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I understand this is the internet, but please can somebody post a rebuttle/coutnerpoint without resorting to "youre ignorant!" Jeeze guys, youre never going to win an argument while directly insulting your opposition. In fact, insults like these virtually guarantee you will not reach consensus.

    You childish, uneducated, smelly, fat fool!!!!! (see how it adds nothing).

    theres got to be some link between what happens on the court and what gets covered in the media. "Pound the Rock" is a good example. I imagine that BC definitely OK'd the decision to use that as the team's marketing basis last season. The media coverage and the bball product are not mutually exclusive. The media department was probably not running JJ commercials this week, becuase BC would have let them know something is up. At least this is the way it should work. BC should be in charge of the outword messaging regarding his product. If he isn't then he's not doing a good enough job in that area. This extends to the establishment of a strategy on where the team gets coverage.

    Also thank you to Matt, planetmars and others who have posted counter points without getting petty.
    Oh boy you think that's petty? Man, you're really not going to like this internet thing.

  5. #185
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    Oh boy you think that's petty? Man, you're really not going to like this internet thing.
    Thank you for taking mercy on me

  6. #186
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I understand this is the internet, but please can somebody post a rebuttle/coutnerpoint without resorting to "youre ignorant!" Jeeze guys, youre never going to win an argument while directly insulting your opposition. In fact, insults like these virtually guarantee you will not reach consensus.

    You childish, uneducated, smelly, fat fool!!!!! (see how it adds nothing).

    theres got to be some link between what happens on the court and what gets covered in the media. "Pound the Rock" is a good example. I imagine that BC definitely OK'd the decision to use that as the team's marketing basis last season. The media coverage and the bball product are not mutually exclusive. The media department was probably not running JJ commercials this week, becuase BC would have let them know something is up. At least this is the way it should work. BC should be in charge of the outword messaging regarding his product. If he isn't then he's not doing a good enough job in that area. This extends to the establishment of a strategy on where the team gets coverage.

    Also thank you to Matt, planetmars and others who have posted counter points without getting petty.
    When Minks and I used the term "ignorant" in our replies to your post, we weren't using it as an insult.

    The fact is, you stated 5 (I think) arguments as to why BC should be fired. The 5th one was all about blaming BC for the Raptors broadcast schedule, the programming on Raptors TV (actually is NBA Canada now) and the Raptors announcers (tv? radio? courtside?).

    It's one thing to have a difference of opinion that can be debated (ie: the JJ trade). It's an entirely different matter when the basis (at least 1 of 5 points) for one side of the argument is rooted in claims that are entirely wrong. If BC was actually responsible for any/all of those things, then we could debate the merits of your claim. However, your claim itself was "ignorant", because the logic/rationale that brought you to the conclusion to make it (BC being responsible) was faulty, hence the ignorance of the claims included in your 5th point.

    We weren't insulting you by calling you ignorant; we were calling the claims that BC was responsible for those TV related issues ignorant because you presented them as the truth when, in fact, they are completely wrong. I can't formally speak for Minks77, but I can tell you that none of my responses to you were meant to be insulting or disrespectful. I was just trying to point out the errors behind your 5th point.

  7. #187
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    When Minks and I used the term "ignorant" in our replies to your post, we weren't using it as an insult.

    The fact is, you stated 5 (I think) arguments as to why BC should be fired. The 5th one was all about blaming BC for the Raptors broadcast schedule, the programming on Raptors TV (actually is NBA Canada now) and the Raptors announcers (tv? radio? courtside?).

    It's one thing to have a difference of opinion that can be debated (ie: the JJ trade). It's an entirely different matter when the basis (at least 1 of 5 points) for one side of the argument is rooted in claims that are entirely wrong. If BC was actually responsible for any/all of those things, then we could debate the merits of your claim. However, your claim itself was "ignorant", because the logic/rationale that brought you to the conclusion to make it (BC being responsible) was faulty, hence the ignorance of the claims included in your 5th point.

    We weren't insulting you by calling you ignorant; we were calling the claims that BC was responsible for those TV related issues ignorant because you presented them as the truth when, in fact, they are completely wrong. I can't formally speak for Minks77, but I can tell you that none of my responses to you were meant to be insulting or disrespectful. I was just trying to point out the errors behind your 5th point.
    Thanks for that. I differ in the sense that when I presented logical fact based rebuttal NoBans response is "I've already pointed out why I believe this to be true" when what he believes is in fact not true. I know it's not because I have first hand experience dealing with it and therefore his argument is, by definition, based on ignorance of the truth.

    Truth hurts sometimes.

  8. #188
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    When Minks and I used the term "ignorant" in our replies to your post, we weren't using it as an insult.

    The fact is, you stated 5 (I think) arguments as to why BC should be fired. The 5th one was all about blaming BC for the Raptors broadcast schedule, the programming on Raptors TV (actually is NBA Canada now) and the Raptors announcers (tv? radio? courtside?).

    It's one thing to have a difference of opinion that can be debated (ie: the JJ trade). It's an entirely different matter when the basis (at least 1 of 5 points) for one side of the argument is rooted in claims that are entirely wrong. If BC was actually responsible for any/all of those things, then we could debate the merits of your claim. However, your claim itself was "ignorant", because the logic/rationale that brought you to the conclusion to make it (BC being responsible) was faulty, hence the ignorance of the claims included in your 5th point.

    We weren't insulting you by calling you ignorant; we were calling the claims that BC was responsible for those TV related issues ignorant because you presented them as the truth when, in fact, they are completely wrong. I can't formally speak for Minks77, but I can tell you that none of my responses to you were meant to be insulting or disrespectful. I was just trying to point out the errors behind your 5th point.
    My 5 points were qualities I want in a new GM, not reasons to fire the current one. The reason to fire BC is 4 straight lotteries.

    I stated that the JJ trade neither here nor there, as he was a bench player and we probably got about his value in return.

    I still disagree that BC has nothing to do with the sad state of RapsTV. Somebody needs to be accountable and he's the face of the raptors' leadership team. He's not working on that side day-to-day, but he's got the power to advocate for improvements. and hey, maybe "nba canada" or whatev it got re-branded to will be a step in the right direction.

    I do appreciate your clarification tho.

























    (Stamps suck!!!!)

  9. #189
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
    I can't believe what I'm reading here and all the Fuss over the trade of a bench dude JJ. In any other city...this trade wouldve been no big deal cause its just a bench warmner.
    Did you become a Raptor fan yesterday? There's 100 page threads about Solomon Alabi and Alexis Ajinca.

    And, hey, when you cheer for the Raptors, this is about as exciting as it gets....

  10. #190
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Did you become a Raptor fan yesterday? There's 100 page threads about Solomon Alabi and Alexis Ajinca.

    And, hey, when you cheer for the Raptors, this is about as exciting as it gets....
    Ajinca is one of the ugliest humans I've ever seen. We should have held on to him for intimidation purposes.

  11. #191
    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Not that I disagree with you even in the slightest, but I have to say your avatar is absolutely perfect for your posts.
    Thanks. Put me in the same room as Colangelo and I would probably act the same as my avatar:


  12. #192
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    This one hurts my soul. Deeply.


    I've never questioned BCs motives ... until today. He better pull out something BIG to follow this up.
    something smells horribly wrong. Dude flushing his mistakes fast at great cost..... cept bargs.... that pick for JJ was Norris Cole.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  13. #193
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    quick question:

    What if there is no "bigger deal"? What if colangelo has no aces up his sleeve or this move is not part of a bigger picture or series of acquisitions?

    What if it is simply the raps trading away j.johnson for a 2nd round pick?

    If it is exactly what it is, is this a bad trade?
    yes!!!!
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    something smells horribly wrong. Dude flushing his mistakes fast at great cost..... cept bargs.... that pick for JJ was Norris Cole.
    yeah but we probably would have ended up with Chandler Parsons as we were looking for a SF......wow how terrible would that have been?

  15. #195
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    quick question:

    What if there is no "bigger deal"? What if colangelo has no aces up his sleeve or this move is not part of a bigger picture or series of acquisitions?

    What if it is simply the raps trading away j.johnson for a 2nd round pick?

    If it is exactly what it is, is this a bad trade?

    I've come to quickly realize that a guy who has spent 4 straight years in the lottery, has 43% win rate, is actually a very good GM, highly skilled and doesn't make mistakes (atleast never at the time)

  16. #196
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I've come to quickly realize that a guy who has spent 4 straight years in the lottery, has 43% win rate, is actually a very good GM, highly skilled and doesn't make mistakes (atleast never at the time)
    What credibility does BC have left?

    he can't even stand up there and buy time any more. He has held press conferences SELLing us on Fred Jones, TJ ford, Kapono, Hedo, Alabi, Johnson (he's so chiseled now).

    All because he keeps trying to fix his fucking Bargs blunder 7 years later and the guy has ensured we have the weakest from court in the league save 20 games.
    Last edited by charlz; Mon Jul 16th, 2012 at 06:39 PM.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  17. #197
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    Exactly. Doug Smith said JJ would have inconsistent practices, and seemed disinterested most of the time. Not to mention that he was suspended for 2 games for butting heads with Casey. His stats are inflated because he got minutes he shouldnt have gotten in the first place. And he is far too much of a gambler on defence. The Raps need the Cap Space and JJ would have been behind Fields, and LK at the 3.

    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

    Johnson move all about locker room culture not talent. Didn't mesh with Casey Has talent but doesn't know how to use it properly yet as well

  18. #198
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    The concept that Bryan Colangelo has turned good assets into bad ones is based on a fundamentally flawed understanding of how assets work in the NBA. All assets in the NBA depreciate over the long term. Therefore if you follow any asset for long enough, it becomes worthless.

    Think about it this way. When Tim Duncan retires, what will the Spurs have left from their number one pick? Nothing. That asset is used up. It won them 4 championships, though, so that's not bad.

    When a draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent, it is pretty much as if that asset vanished. You can re-sign the draft pick, but you're using up cap space the same way anyone else would be if they signed that pick. So it is hardly surprising that not much value is left from the Bosh drft pick: his contract expired. There is nothing Colangelo could do to stop at from happening. At the time he did the reasonable thing: he tried to build a team around Chris that could win some games

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    What credibility does BC have left?

    he can't even stand up there and buy time any more. He has held press conferences SELLing us on Fred Jones, TJ ford, Kapono, Hedo, Alabi, Johnson (he's so chiseled now).

    All because he keeps trying to fix his fucking Bargs blunder 7 years later and the guy has ensured we have the weakest from court in the league save 20 games.
    How is he fixing Bargs Blunder. Bargs last season averaged 19.5 points a game, and this year he is going back to his natural position, 4. He was jerked by the organization forced to play 5, a position that doesnt suit him.

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    In fact one year they had him playing 3 with Bosh at 4 and JO at 5. He has gone from 5 to 3 back to 5. Not good for a players development when he cant figure out what position he has to play.

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