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Thread: OFFICIAL: James Johnson sent to Kings for 2nd Rounder

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Sacramento picked up Aaron Brooks. They are loaded at 1/2. Surely we could have found a backup PG or a combo-guard there?

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    JJ was one of the last players I would have wanted traded in the team. I liked his game a lot, even though he had lots to improve on. To me his flaws were more on personality/attitude (like trying to play above himself on offense and gambling too much on D) than skill. I had hoped that in time he will understand his role and accept it, and that whatever went on between him and coach would be fixed. I guess not. Then again he could have wanted out himself after what happened last season, you never know. Nevertheless it sucks to see him go, and for nothing significant in return. I wanted him as our back up SF, provided we found a good starting 3. Him backing up Kleiza/Fields/DD/Ross wouldn't cut it.

  3. #203
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote malefax wrote: View Post
    The concept that Bryan Colangelo has turned good assets into bad ones is based on a fundamentally flawed understanding of how assets work in the NBA. All assets in the NBA depreciate over the long term. Therefore if you follow any asset for long enough, it becomes worthless.

    Think about it this way. When Tim Duncan retires, what will the Spurs have left from their number one pick? Nothing. That asset is used up. It won them 4 championships, though, so that's not bad.

    When a draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent, it is pretty much as if that asset vanished. You can re-sign the draft pick, but you're using up cap space the same way anyone else would be if they signed that pick. So it is hardly surprising that not much value is left from the Bosh drft pick: his contract expired. There is nothing Colangelo could do to stop at from happening. At the time he did the reasonable thing: he tried to build a team around Chris that could win some games
    All assets depreciate over the long run, sure. But how long is the long run? Every year? After 10 years? We've seen many players appreciate in value over time. Tony Parker went from a late first round draft pick to a perennial all-star. Thats value appreciation.

    You point to Bosh. But I'll point out Colangelo having the opportunity to derive value from him by trading him earlier. He choose not to (in fact he offered a max contract to a guy he later said couldn't be built around!!). He didn't lose value in Bosh due to asset depreciation, he lost value in Bosh because he sold Bosh at his lowest possible value.

  4. #204
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    We could have had Bynum for Bosh.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

  5. #205
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    As was mentioned on another thread, the Bosh trade was not so bad, they got miami's pick, which didn't really turn out, but then again I wouldn't want Norris Cole. They also got back their own pick - JV - which is a pretty good trade for a guy that had already left!

  6. #206
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    We could have had Bynum for Bosh.
    Nobody knows what we could have gotten for Bosh, it's all just speculation and often speculation based on what you think of Colangelo. But suppose we would have gotten Bynum (you know, the pet-player of Jim Buss who was rumoured not even to want to trade him for Howard) we would have enjoyed an injury prone player (untill this year) with a high probability of having some nice trade-drama this year with Bynum in the last year of his contract.

  7. #207
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote OnTheRightTrack wrote: View Post
    As was mentioned on another thread, the Bosh trade was not so bad, they got miami's pick, which didn't really turn out, but then again I wouldn't want Norris Cole. They also got back their own pick - JV - which is a pretty good trade for a guy that had already left!
    not accurate.

    They got Miami's pick, which they traded for James Johnsons to Chicago, who was then traded for a 2nd round pick.

    The Raps didn't get JV from their pick being returned. It was lottery protected, so what they have gotten back so far is 2 2nd round picks (which they would have lost to Miami due to the lottery protection).

  8. #208
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    Quote YYZ wrote: View Post
    In fact one year they had him playing 3 with Bosh at 4 and JO at 5. He has gone from 5 to 3 back to 5. Not good for a players development when he cant figure out what position he has to play.
    Is this the latest one we're going to go with. I just want to know in case someone asks, we should all have our story straight.

  9. #209
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Default All about making Casey happy

    I am extremely unhappy with this trade, I think JJ was very talented. But I can see the value in making sure that our locker room is filled with guys that are happy to be playing their roles, and that their is no major differences in opinion between Casey and the players. Players need to know that if they are not going along with the program they are expendable, its essential for maintaining order especially for a young team. In that sense, for the purpose of creating a better atmosphere for our team to flourish this trade understandable.

    Landry fields is a younger player with better shooting, and perimeter defense, a higher basketball IQ which is what our team needs more. I do believe that it is better to have players that are defined as starters who will be getting at least 30-36 min. a game rather than having 2 people share that position with 24 min. a game each. We had a logjam at SF and now it is dealt with.

    Best of luck to you JJ.

  10. #210
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    All assets depreciate over the long run, sure. But how long is the long run? Every year? After 10 years? We've seen many players appreciate in value over time. Tony Parker went from a late first round draft pick to a perennial all-star. Thats value appreciation.

    You point to Bosh. But I'll point out Colangelo having the opportunity to derive value from him by trading him earlier. He choose not to (in fact he offered a max contract to a guy he later said couldn't be built around!!). He didn't lose value in Bosh due to asset depreciation, he lost value in Bosh because he sold Bosh at his lowest possible value.
    In hindsight, sure, he could have traded bosh at some point for more than 2 draft picks. But he chose to instead use Bosh: have him play on the team. And that decision didn't turn out great. But I have no problem with making a decision that turns out badly if the choice was sensible at the time. Trading an all-star away in his prime is not usually a good move, unless you get a package like Utah or Denver got. I doubt anything remotely like that was ever on the table for Bosh.

    Your point about some assets appreciating over time is a perfectly good one. Not too many of Colangelo's pickups seem to have appreciated much: Amir Johnson is maybe the biggest exception. But it is disappointing that Bayless and Johnson didn't turn out to be much. Disappointing, but not super surprising: Colangelo got them for peanuts, and there was never much chance of them being huge contributors.

  11. #211
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote malefax wrote: View Post
    In hindsight, sure, he could have traded bosh at some point for more than 2 draft picks. But he chose to instead use Bosh: have him play on the team. And that decision didn't turn out great. But I have no problem with making a decision that turns out badly if the choice was sensible at the time. Trading an all-star away in his prime is not usually a good move, unless you get a package like Utah or Denver got. I doubt anything remotely like that was ever on the table for Bosh.

    Your point about some assets appreciating over time is a perfectly good one. Not too many of Colangelo's pickups seem to have appreciated much: Amir Johnson is maybe the biggest exception. But it is disappointing that Bayless and Johnson didn't turn out to be much. Disappointing, but not super surprising: Colangelo got them for peanuts, and there was never much chance of them being huge contributors.
    +1 They weren't big time impact contributors, but they had quality games in to help the team, all for what? Norris Cole and Jarrett Jack-up-shots?

  12. #212
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    not accurate.

    They got Miami's pick, which they traded for James Johnsons to Chicago, who was then traded for a 2nd round pick.

    The Raps didn't get JV from their pick being returned. It was lottery protected, so what they have gotten back so far is 2 2nd round picks (which they would have lost to Miami due to the lottery protection).
    2010-07-10 Raptors 2011 first round pick (#5-Jonas Valanciunas), 2011 first round pick (lottery protected in 2011, else cash) (#28 Norris Cole), $4.2M trade exception Chris Bosh trade with Heat
    I believe the trade exception should read 14.2 mil
    http://www.prosportstransactions.com...arch&start=125
    Last edited by jbml; Mon Jul 16th, 2012 at 09:23 PM.

  13. #213
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote malefax wrote: View Post
    In hindsight, sure, he could have traded bosh at some point for more than 2 draft picks. But he chose to instead use Bosh: have him play on the team. And that decision didn't turn out great. But I have no problem with making a decision that turns out badly if the choice was sensible at the time. Trading an all-star away in his prime is not usually a good move, unless you get a package like Utah or Denver got. I doubt anything remotely like that was ever on the table for Bosh.

    Your point about some assets appreciating over time is a perfectly good one. Not too many of Colangelo's pickups seem to have appreciated much: Amir Johnson is maybe the biggest exception. But it is disappointing that Bayless and Johnson didn't turn out to be much. Disappointing, but not super surprising: Colangelo got them for peanuts, and there was never much chance of them being huge contributors.
    hindsight isn't important. You said assets depreciate over time. I was pointing out they don't have to. The reasons the depreciation happens is because the managers miss out on value. Or perhaps worded more accurately they allow them to depreciate.

    Now you may have no problem with a decision you see as sensible at the time, but I'd say I have a problem with a decision I don't see as sensible at the time. And there is no shortage of decisions different people though were insensible at the time.

  14. #214
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote jbml wrote: View Post
    I believe the trade exception should read 14.2 mil
    http://www.prosportstransactions.com...arch&start=125
    that record is not precise.

    As I said they did get their pick back, but it was lottery protected anyways and since the Raps were the 3rd worst team in the league that year it was not going to Miami. It was protected for 5 years, with Miami getting a 2nd round pick. So had the Bosh sign and trade not happened, the Raps would have still been able to draft Jonas.

    The deal also calls for Toronto to get the league's maximum allowed in cash considerations ($3 million) and for the Heat to land a conditional first-round pick to come sometime between 2010 and 2015. It's lottery-protected, essentially meaning the first time the Raptors make the playoffs after this season, their first-rounder goes to Miami.

    If Miami does not get that first-round pick in 2010, it will get an additional second-round pick that year.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146

  15. #215
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    for any cap-ologists out there.. how or does this $2.8 million affect the raps? Are we still over the cap (and then get to use the MLE) or now below the cap (and able to use the barbosa trade exception)?

  16. #216
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    hindsight isn't important. You said assets depreciate over time. I was pointing out they don't have to. The reasons the depreciation happens is because the managers miss out on value. Or perhaps worded more accurately they allow them to depreciate.
    I remember the Raptors contending for a playoff spot, actually being in the playoff standings during the trade deadline. It's also about the timing of buying and selling. BC could have sold him for much more but instead chose to remain in the hunt for the playoffs.

    Bosh, coincidentally, got injured the last month of regular season. The Raptors struggled and lost out to the Bulls the last game of the season. That's all she wrote. I can't blame the GM too much since it was a matter of deciding between rebuilding or staying in contention -- midway through the season, where the Raptors were very much alive in the playoff hunt.

    It was a gamble and he lost; partly because of misjudgment and partly because of fate.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

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    Quote JStockton wrote: View Post
    Isn't that what BC did? He overpayed for Fields, who in most circles can be defined as a quality player.

    So you're saying we should've kept JJ, not sign Fields and gotten Thabo instead (who I believe is not on the trading block)? How can we calculate the payroll if you're suggesting a line-up of only 5 players??? That is indeed intriguing.
    no thats not wat i said, if we are going to waste money on some one like fields who we believe has the POTENTIAL to be MEDIOCRE and will never justify his contract. and by no means i am saying we should keep jj. but instead, we could have dumped all da expiring salary like jj, jose, eddie, forbes and other small assets to atlanta( which is exactly what Brooklyn did) for Joe Johnson.
    this is exactly how competitive teams are built, not by paying nash and fields a total of close to 60 mil over 3 years!!!

  18. #218
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Is this the latest one we're going to go with. I just want to know in case someone asks, we should all have our story straight.
    Are you denying that didnt happen?

  19. #219
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    for any cap-ologists out there.. how or does this $2.8 million affect the raps? Are we still over the cap (and then get to use the MLE) or now below the cap (and able to use the barbosa trade exception)?
    I'd have to double-check, but I think the Raps are hovering right around the cap, now that JJ is gone and Acy has signed (I didn't hear any details, but read on Raps PR twitter that he had signed). Regardless, I don't believe there is any way for the Raps to regain either the full MLE or the Barbosa TPE - I believe they permanently lost both as soon as the Fields signing was finalized.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'd have to double-check, but I think the Raps are hovering right around the cap, now that JJ is gone and Acy has signed (I didn't hear any details, but read on Raps PR twitter that he had signed). Regardless, I don't believe there is any way for the Raps to regain either the full MLE or the Barbosa TPE - I believe they permanently lost both as soon as the Fields signing was finalized.
    I am surprised BC isnt amnestying anyone, specifically Amir. Great bench player, not worth the $6 mill hit though.

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