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Thread: OFFICIAL: James Johnson sent to Kings for 2nd Rounder

  1. #141
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    @jerboat

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    Let's see

    2013 2nd round gems
    1) Michael Snaer - 6'5, 200IB SG (possibly a steal, reminds me of Leandro Barbosa)
    2) Mindagaus Kupsas - 7'1 C from Lithuania (possibly as a backup for Valanciunas)
    3) Dario Saric - 6'9 SF/PF (Poor man Ilyasova)
    4) DeWayne Dedmon - 7'0 C from USC

    - There are many C in the 2nd round of next year's draft, which we can acquire a backup C for Valanciunas when Magloire retires

    2014 2nd round gems
    1) BJ Young - PG
    2) Tim Hardaway Jr - SG
    3) Dwight Powell - SF
    4) Isiah Austin - C

  3. #143
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    Let's see

    2013 2nd round gems
    1) Michael Snaer - 6'5, 200IB SG (possibly a steal, reminds me of Leandro Barbosa)
    2) Mindagaus Kupsas - 7'1 C from Lithuania (possibly as a backup for Valanciunas)
    3) Dario Saric - 6'9 SF/PF (Poor man Ilyasova)
    4) DeWayne Dedmon - 7'0 C from USC

    - There are many C in the 2nd round of next year's draft, which we can acquire a backup C for Valanciunas when Magloire retires

    2014 2nd round gems
    1) BJ Young - PG
    2) Tim Hardaway Jr - SG
    3) Dwight Powell - SF
    4) Isiah Austin - C
    I am getting excited already! Is that Powell guy related to the Jamacian sprinter?? Just think of how much team speed we can add!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

  4. #144
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    For crying out loud man, you can't expect fans to go on a full-blown GM hunt, identify the best candidate, and then come to raps repub to post their findings. It's prefectlly fine for a fan to be upset with the GM and call for a firing without stating a replacement. We don't have the means to search for one. Your argument that BC is a good GM because nobody can point to a specific replacement is garbage.

    I would rejoice with a BC firing. No, I don't have a interview-ready candidate for his replacement. That doesn't mean we need to keep BC.

    To appease you a little, here are some qualities I'd like to see in a potential replacement:

    ---> A more advanced-stats focused analysis. We're not known as one of the teams that uses SABRmetrics (or whatever it's called), but it would be nice to feel like we had some solid analysis behind our moves instead of the song and dance BC usually defends his moves with.

    ---> Less of a focus on Euro players. I liked the idea originally, as attacting Euros is an advantage of the Toronto market. But I'm ready to call that strategy a failure, remove the little Italian guy along with BC.

    ---> Somebody that's crafting a clear identity and culture. Pound the Rock and the defensive accountablility that comes with it is a great start. Steve Nash would have been a disaster. I couldn't believe our GM did not recognize this from the beginning.

    ---> A GM not in the pockets of agents. The Barbosa deal is an example of us making a move that results in a worse on-court product to help relations with an agent. I continue to think that the league's powerful agents play BC like a drum.

    ---> A GM that can address the ridiculous media sh!t-show. Every game on a different channel, horrible announcers, really bad programming and analysis on RapsTV.
    Although I respect your right to interpret the situation as you see fit, I disagree with you're analysis of what BC is and by extension what he's doing wrong.

    1) BC and his crew have been noted for using advanced analytics, advanced psychological screening (member that test they put Andrea through that said he had the mental focus to be great or some shit?) loads of scouts and some of the best minds in the biz and he isn't afraid to think out side the box unlike many other GMs out there. These have all been discussed in various reports over the years. I'm interested to hear where you got the idea that he doesn't use any of the new tools out there or is it just speculation because he reaches different conclusions than you do?

    2) Less of a focus on Euro players? Euro like Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, James Johnson (who they almost drafted ahead of DeMar) DD, Aaron Gray, Reggie Evans, Kyle Lowry, Landry Fields, Ross... the list goes on but you need to actually look at the players he's brought in and realize you are believing in the tooth fairy here. Andrea, Jorge, Rasho, Marco and JV are his big Euro player pick ups and only two of them play here anymore. I suppose you could consider Parker a "non euro euro" but then you have to give me Linas as a "non american american" as he played his whole career over here and went to college in the US.

    3) Culture creation is up to the group as a whole but I'd argue that most of it is up to the coach. I agree Nash is a sieve but so is Jose and DC was able to hide him effectively last year so there's no doubt he could do the same thing with a player of such a higher calibre.

    4) Every GM is in the pockets of agents to some degree and needs to be. Especially with a team some agents/players don't want to come to for whatever reason. You can't just go around alienating people willy nilly and expect to be able to do your job going forward. You have to understand that there's a lot of politicking involved. There's no way around it. it's a key part of doing ANY kind of business. Agents and players notice things like what he did with Barbosa and don't forget it.

    5) The GM has nothing to do with the horrible TV Schedule. NOTHING. The Raptors organization has many different branches and BC has nothing to do with media placement. MLSEL sells rights to games in blocks to the highest bidders. Good business for them, sucks for us. I hate TSN for trying to force my hand to buy an extra specialty channel to watch games in HD when the other networks include HD. It's a dirty money grab but like they say, THIS IS A BUSINESS.

  5. #145
    Raptors Republic Rookie JStockton's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    Although I respect your right to interpret the situation as you see fit, I disagree with you're analysis of what BC is and by extension what he's doing wrong.

    1) BC and his crew have been noted for using advanced analytics, advanced psychological screening (member that test they put Andrea through that said he had the mental focus to be great or some shit?) loads of scouts and some of the best minds in the biz and he isn't afraid to think out side the box unlike many other GMs out there. These have all been discussed in various reports over the years. I'm interested to hear where you got the idea that he doesn't use any of the new tools out there or is it just speculation because he reaches different conclusions than you do?

    2) Less of a focus on Euro players? Euro like Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, James Johnson (who they almost drafted ahead of DeMar) DD, Aaron Gray, Reggie Evans, Kyle Lowry, Landry Fields, Ross... the list goes on but you need to actually look at the players he's brought in and realize you are believing in the tooth fairy here. Andrea, Jorge, Rasho, Marco and JV are his big Euro player pick ups and only two of them play here anymore. I suppose you could consider Parker a "non euro euro" but then you have to give me Linas as a "non american american" as he played his whole career over here and went to college in the US.

    3) Culture creation is up to the group as a whole but I'd argue that most of it is up to the coach. I agree Nash is a sieve but so is Jose and DC was able to hide him effectively last year so there's no doubt he could do the same thing with a player of such a higher calibre.

    4) Every GM is in the pockets of agents to some degree and needs to be. Especially with a team some agents/players don't want to come to for whatever reason. You can't just go around alienating people willy nilly and expect to be able to do your job going forward. You have to understand that there's a lot of politicking involved. There's no way around it. it's a key part of doing ANY kind of business. Agents and players notice things like what he did with Barbosa and don't forget it.

    5) The GM has nothing to do with the horrible TV Schedule. NOTHING. The Raptors organization has many different branches and BC has nothing to do with media placement. MLSEL sells rights to games in blocks to the highest bidders. Good business for them, sucks for us. I hate TSN for trying to force my hand to buy an extra specialty channel to watch games in HD when the other networks include HD. It's a dirty money grab but like they say, THIS IS A BUSINESS.
    Couldn't have argued any better. Well said.

  6. #146
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was born and raised in Ontario and lived in Toronto for nine years. I didn't say that BC wasn't involved, I simply said there's no way he alone makes that decision, considering the team is owned by the country's 2 biggest broadcast empires! lol You think he would make a decision about broadcasting rights without Rogers or Bell ownership perhaps having just a little input??? Come on...

    The announcers and NBA Canada programming are completely outside of the GM's control.
    You're right he doesn't do everything, but, how many seconds of watching tape of a game does it take to know something is wrong? His role is to generate profit. Being a yes man to Rogers and/or Bell does not do the product he is selling any help. His only interest should be: creating a winning, profitable team.

    Anyway, why are we arguing about this? I merely was pointing out a single fact, which, on its own probably is inconsequential to the debate

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JStockton's Avatar
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    Let's see

    2013 2nd round gems
    1) Michael Snaer - 6'5, 200IB SG (possibly a steal, reminds me of Leandro Barbosa)
    2) Mindagaus Kupsas - 7'1 C from Lithuania (possibly as a backup for Valanciunas)
    3) Dario Saric - 6'9 SF/PF (Poor man Ilyasova)
    4) DeWayne Dedmon - 7'0 C from USC

    - There are many C in the 2nd round of next year's draft, which we can acquire a backup C for Valanciunas when Magloire retires

    2014 2nd round gems
    1) BJ Young - PG
    2) Tim Hardaway Jr - SG
    3) Dwight Powell - SF
    4) Isiah Austin - C
    Too early to even look at this. We don't even know what year we will get the pick (some say 2014), or whether or not we will keep it.

  8. #148
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    1) BC and his crew have been noted for using advanced analytics, advanced psychological screening (member that test they put Andrea through that said he had the mental focus to be great or some shit?)
    All those people better be fired by now.

  9. #149
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    You're right he doesn't do everything, but, how many seconds of watching tape of a game does it take to know something is wrong? His role is to generate profit. Being a yes man to Rogers and/or Bell does not do the product he is selling any help. His only interest should be: creating a winning, profitable team.

    Anyway, why are we arguing about this? I merely was pointing out a single fact, which, on its own probably is inconsequential to the debate
    BC is president of the Raptors but the Raps don't sell their broadcast rights MLSE does. They also buy rights to other games from the NBA and resell them. BC has NOTHING to do with it.

    http://www.mlse.com/media_sales.aspx
    Last edited by minks77; Mon Jul 16th, 2012 at 02:40 PM.

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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    Well keeping Kleiza makes sense to me. If JV really lives up to this hype, it would be silly to trade away the one guy on this team that has played with JV and is a good friend of his. That is not a really solid start to a team-player relationship.

    Was the 2nd round pick the best offer? I have trouble believing that. And if it was the best deal available, wouldn't it make sense to use Johnson as a piece in a larger trade? We all knew JJ was gone when Fields was acquired, but I have trouble believing that the guy who leads a "defensive minded" team in blocks and steals should be flipped for a second rounder. Not to mention the guy was improving.
    and Kleiza can shoot

    JJ cannot

  11. #151
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    Default Smarty pants

    To Whom It May Concern:

    Would someone kindly advise me as to what we couldve had if we never secured the services of JJ back in 2011.
    We gave up late-first round pick in 2011 to acquire him from Chicago. Please advise me what we couldve got back in that slot. Now measure that with the service provided to us by JJ in a Raptor Uniform all the way to end of 2012

    When we got him he was younger with potential and gave up a late 1st round pick...big deal
    When we traded him he was bit older now still with potential but now a locker peace disturber exhanged for late 2nd. ...woopeee big deal.

    After the top 10 draftess its anyones gamble. No big difference between what you might get late 1st rd or early
    2nd. JJ on another team would be a deep bench dude. Playing on a crappy team like the RAPS...he is BIG STAR...lol.......send him to another winning team...he aint anything. How many 20pt games or double digit rebounds has he had. Reality Check folks.....

    good deal...stop crying

    Peace

  12. #152
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I liked James Johnson, brought something to the table, and always went after it. But since the internal issue, and his sometimes inconsistent play really conflicted.

    I'm sad we couldn't get someone in return, but that speaks towards his value.

    Who are the top 10 wing free agents left? Because with 2.6$ million on freed up space, plus I believe 4$ million left in the cap (correct me if I've mistake), are we looking to sign someone? Because trading any of our current assets other than Jose looks really unlikely. Jose being traded looks more and more likely during trade deadline.

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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    BC is the unquestioned leader and the face of the leadership team. Everything that surrounds the team falls under his umbrella.

    He's not making specific programming decisions, but everything that happens with raps media coverage happens on his watch. We can't expect him to dig into the media side of things, but he's gotta set the tone of what is and is not acceptable on that side of the fence... something that he's failed to do with a lackluster product as a result.

    You racist!
    Seriosuly man?......Seriously. You need to stop drinking the coffee or something.

    Woooooosssaaaahhh!

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Seriosuly man?......Seriously. You need to stop drinking the coffee or something.

    Woooooosssaaaahhh!
    Seriously that was not a serious comment but I think you may have taken it seriously.

  15. #155
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    Although I respect your right to interpret the situation as you see fit, I disagree with you're analysis of what BC is and by extension what he's doing wrong.

    1) BC and his crew have been noted for using advanced analytics, advanced psychological screening (member that test they put Andrea through that said he had the mental focus to be great or some shit?) loads of scouts and some of the best minds in the biz and he isn't afraid to think out side the box unlike many other GMs out there. These have all been discussed in various reports over the years. I'm interested to hear where you got the idea that he doesn't use any of the new tools out there or is it just speculation because he reaches different conclusions than you do?

    2) Less of a focus on Euro players? Euro like Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, James Johnson (who they almost drafted ahead of DeMar) DD, Aaron Gray, Reggie Evans, Kyle Lowry, Landry Fields, Ross... the list goes on but you need to actually look at the players he's brought in and realize you are believing in the tooth fairy here. Andrea, Jorge, Rasho, Marco and JV are his big Euro player pick ups and only two of them play here anymore. I suppose you could consider Parker a "non euro euro" but then you have to give me Linas as a "non american american" as he played his whole career over here and went to college in the US.

    3) Culture creation is up to the group as a whole but I'd argue that most of it is up to the coach. I agree Nash is a sieve but so is Jose and DC was able to hide him effectively last year so there's no doubt he could do the same thing with a player of such a higher calibre.

    4) Every GM is in the pockets of agents to some degree and needs to be. Especially with a team some agents/players don't want to come to for whatever reason. You can't just go around alienating people willy nilly and expect to be able to do your job going forward. You have to understand that there's a lot of politicking involved. There's no way around it. it's a key part of doing ANY kind of business. Agents and players notice things like what he did with Barbosa and don't forget it.

    5) The GM has nothing to do with the horrible TV Schedule. NOTHING. The Raptors organization has many different branches and BC has nothing to do with media placement. MLSEL sells rights to games in blocks to the highest bidders. Good business for them, sucks for us. I hate TSN for trying to force my hand to buy an extra specialty channel to watch games in HD when the other networks include HD. It's a dirty money grab but like they say, THIS IS A BUSINESS.
    We all know Bargs did well on the wonderlic and that's a big reason why we drafted him ahead of Aldridge. But I've never heard the Raps mentioned as a team ahead of the curve (or even at the curve) on advanced stats. Teams like the ones I mentioned are always brought up, and we should be too. Ive never heard of the raps contract help from any of the major advanced-stats companies (like other teams do) and, to my knowledge, we've never hired anybody from MIT or anything like that. We've never had anybody on the panel of the Sloan conference... I just don't see the evidence that we are making the necessary investments here... and the team's performance backs that up.

    The Euro thing is more about where we allocate our scouting resources, as I mentioned already

    Nash was clearly a mismatch for DC's system, culture.. which is why the pursuit of him was so ridiculous. The leader of the org needs every move to reinforce the vision/culture he's trying to establish.. .and the bumbling pursuit of Nash showed shocking neglennce in this arena.

    I'm not buying your argument that "it's OK if an agent bends him over backward because it happens to others as well"

    I've already made arguments that BC is accountable for the high level media plan of the team.

  16. #156
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    Seriously that was not a serious comment but I think you may have taken it seriously.
    Boy...you all taking JJ's departure very seriously. Chill out!!!


    All the best to JJ , King and the Raptors.

    Peace
    It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.


    Muhammad Ali

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    Quote Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
    Boy...you all taking JJ's departure very seriously. Chill out!!!


    All the best to JJ , King and the Raptors.

    Peace

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    Quote Fanchie wrote: View Post
    I know that kind of maths are a bit too simple to throw in the discussion, but 9.1 points, 4.7 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 1.4 blocks per game for $2.8M is quite valuable. Of course, you'd have to take what these minutes could be used for if given to someone else, and there are some non-measurable parameters, but I think "valuable" is an ok definition of what JJ is. Not awesome, but not useless.

    We discussed his value for months and months to compare it to the late 1st rounder we gave away to get him. And the conclusion was that having him on the team was better than having this pick. And now we would be saying that a 2nd rounder is more valuable than JJ ?

    Don't get me wrong : i'm fine with this deal cause with Fields in, he's the one who has to go (Kleiza will be a huge help for Jonas acclimatation, I don't want him anywhere else than in TO). It's just not a deal BC needed to do (after all, we have 3 PF and we drafted a 4th one) so if he did it, it has to be for a bigger reason.
    I noticed that you left out that he was the 7th worst SF in the league with turnovers. That was the knock on him. I also noticed that you said he wasn't a locker room cancer, how do we know that? I think he had some potential as a player and thought he was owed something for that potential. We don't truly know what he was like for the coaches and players in the locker room. I read that the team didn't believe he was a good team player actually. I liked him and wish him well. I loved that he posterized Blake Griffen, but beyond that I don't think he has a whole lot of value.

  19. #159
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    WOW, this is the dumbest trade, nothing else to say.

  20. #160
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    I don't really understand the outrage over this trade. Value-wise, yes, it sucks we traded a first rounder for a second rounder. But given what BC had to work with you can't be that upset. We lost a 29th overall pick and gained.. maybe a 35th pick? If the rumors are true, we're talking about a guy who was caught smoking a joint on the team plane. If not, we're still dealing with a guy who was (subsequently) demoted and had disagreements with the coach. And despite his scrappy play, was unable to get back into the starting lineup of a team that won a third of its games.

    The fact that we were able to get a 2nd round pick for this, is pretty good.

    Better case would have been if he was really good and we traded for a better 1st rounder.. but given the circumstances I think we did alright.

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