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Thread: Your 2012/2013 Toronto Raptors

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Default Your 2012/2013 Toronto Raptors

    Kyle Lowry (5.75 million)
    Jose Calderon (10.4 million)
    Ben Uzoh (1.2 million) likely when signed
    DeMar DeRozan (3.3 Million)
    Terrence Ross (2.1 Million)
    Landry Fields (5.4 million)
    Linas Kleiza (4.6 million)
    Alan Anderson (1.2 million) assumption
    Andrea Bargnani (10 million)
    Ed Davis (2.2 million)
    Quincy Acy (1 million) rounded
    Amir Johnson (6 million)
    Jonas Valanciunas (2.8 million)
    Aaron Gray (2.5 million) <---- not sure on that number heard his contract was very similar

    Total Salaries: 58.45 million (59.55 if you average the Fields cap hit)

    There could be variation on the Alan Anderson and Ben Uzoh deals but not a lot.
    Chances are we leave the 15th spot open for flexibility reasons.
    I think this means Magloire isn't coming back

    Unless someone proposes a blockbuster trade this is our roster.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Kyle Lowry (5.75 million)
    Jose Calderon (10.4 million)
    Ben Uzoh (1.2 million) likely when signed
    DeMar DeRozan (3.3 Million)
    Terrence Ross (2.1 Million)
    Landry Fields (5.4 million)
    Linas Kleiza (4.6 million)
    Alan Anderson (1.2 million) assumption
    Andrea Bargnani (10 million)
    Ed Davis (2.2 million)
    Quincy Acy (1 million) rounded
    Amir Johnson (6 million)
    Jonas Valanciunas (2.8 million)
    Aaron Gray (2.5 million) <---- not sure on that number heard his contract was very similar

    Total Salaries: 58.45 million (59.55 if you average the Fields cap hit)

    There could be variation on the Alan Anderson and Ben Uzoh deals but not a lot.
    Chances are we leave the 15th spot open for flexibility reasons.
    I think this means Magloire isn't coming back

    Unless someone proposes a blockbuster trade this is our roster.
    WHAt no Magloire??? who's going to be the "made in Canada mascott then?" LOL

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    WHAt no Magloire??? who's going to be the "made in Canada mascott then?" LOL
    Joseph. From summer league. I still think they could have gotten that guy from BC. Whatever his name is with the final pick. That could have been out Canadian Content.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Given all of the talk of flexibility, cap room, hitting the ground running, making the playoffs, etc., this roster is a major disappointment. It's the same basic core of players plus Kyle Lowry. Fields isn't even worth mentioning. I know that for the past 6 years Colangelo has told us it takes big men about 5-6 years to develop in the NBA, well, he better hope that it takes Valanciunas about 5-6 weeks, otherwise, Bryan will be looking for a job next summer.

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    I don't get the impression that Uzoh is coming back. He has played poorly in summer league and continue to hear Raps are tlking to other 3rd string PG's. I think they look for someone more offense oriented.

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    Slaw, last years opening day roster was:
    Solomon Alabi
    Leandro Barbosa
    Andrea Bargnani
    Jerryd Bayless
    Rasual Butler
    Jose Calderon
    Anthony Carter
    Ed Davis
    Demar DeRozan
    Gary Forbes
    Aaron Gray
    Amir Johnson
    James Johnson
    Linas Kleiza
    Jamal Magloire

    How can you possibly imply that our 2012 opening day roster is not radically improved from last year. In 2011 half the team were dogs, we may not have any superstars yet but we've replced all the dogs with players or prospects, most of our returning core should be expected to be better with another year and another summer under their belts and almost as importantly, the flexibility that you mock continues to exist as next summer we could have $15-18 million available in cap room (Calderon expiring and Amir amnesty). You don't go from shit to champions overnight. As the handle indicates, we are on the right track.

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    General reactions.

    ---> Can't say im overly jacked up just yet, but I'm sure I will be once the season starts and we see more of JV. Gotta be happy to get JV over here. Looking forward to that.

    ---> Lowry is a nice move. Really loving it.

    ---> Was hoping for more in the draft than Ross, but winding up at 8 didn't leave us with a ton of options. Consensus is that he can shoot, defend and run the floor, so I'm genreally looking forward to the TRoss era once I get over my dreams of MKG or Barnes.

    ---> Fields is a head-scratcher. We should have used his $ in our chase for a starting SF. Im disappointed in that move.

    ---> I'm not gutted to see Bayless go, but I didnt always enjoy Barbosa's game. Between those 2, we've got a lot of scoring to make up. I'm unconvinced that DeRo can cover the gap.


    I see 2 major issues. We're over-reliant on the inconsistent scoring of DeRo an Linus. And we have a potential problem at PG with 2 guys that think they should start and don't really wanna share minutes or play together.

    An additional minor issue is that we're smallish on the wings. We don't have a legid 3 outside of Linus. We could have issues defending the leagues more phyical wingmen.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    ---> Was hoping for more in the draft than Ross, but winding up at 8 didn't leave us with a ton of options. Consensus is that he can shoot, defend and run the floor, so I'm genreally looking forward to the TRoss era once I get over my dreams of MKG or Barnes.

    me too. not so much with the number 8 but i really thought our 2 second rounders could have gotten us a better pick. or a package with a player

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    I'm also disappointed. We've gotten dramatically better but we had the tools to put together a team that could compete at an even higher level. Our management doesn't want to spend, and they cover that up by saying they want to preserve our 'flexibility'. BC is a good GM, I just think he's clearly not a guy that can put together a championship contending team. I get that we're taking small steps, but he seems to be content with putting together 'eternally on-the-cusp' type teams that really get nowhere when it's all said and done. This is the story of the Atlanta Hawks, Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets, Utah Jazz. If he ever wants to win big he has to understand that you have to spend big, and not on 38 year olds at the end of their careers just to fill the stands. I feel like we have the PG, SG, and C of the future, and I still believe that if Bargnani can get to the 24 and 7 level he'd be worth the long wait. But the fact that BC made that hug commitment to Fields tells us that he doesn't get that it's going to take a player of a higher caliber to complete our core and turn us into a legitimate, deep playoff run team. I feel like Ross will en up better than DeRozan, so if BC can manage to shed Calderon, DeRozan, and another small asset for a great SF then I think we can begin the conversation about if we can contend in a few years. But if BC is content with this roster, let's just be real, he'll never get us a Championship. I seriously question whether he wants to win a championship.

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Given all of the talk of flexibility, cap room, hitting the ground running, making the playoffs, etc., this roster is a major disappointment. It's the same basic core of players plus Kyle Lowry. Fields isn't even worth mentioning. I know that for the past 6 years Colangelo has told us it takes big men about 5-6 years to develop in the NBA, well, he better hope that it takes Valanciunas about 5-6 weeks, otherwise, Bryan will be looking for a job next summer.
    I would like it if a real GM was hired and came in and tried to build this team properly next year, however I can't escape the feeling that Colangelo will get one more shot at continuing to mismanage the Toronto Raptors.

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    Default Joker

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Given all of the talk of flexibility, cap room, hitting the ground running, making the playoffs, etc., this roster is a major disappointment. It's the same basic core of players plus Kyle Lowry. Fields isn't even worth mentioning. I know that for the past 6 years Colangelo has told us it takes big men about 5-6 years to develop in the NBA, well, he better hope that it takes Valanciunas about 5-6 weeks, otherwise, Bryan will be looking for a job next summer.
    Dude,

    Tell me your kidding. Thus far i call this roster a upgrade over the last year no doubt.

    Although the playoff is no guarantee with this roster -- I say we finish 10th-7th spot. Hoping no injuries this year especially to our go to guys...whoever that is.
    but definite upgrade. If you play the two rosters against each other this years team will win no doubt.

    Peace out
    It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.


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    Quote Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
    Dude,

    Tell me your kidding. Thus far i call this roster a upgrade over the last year no doubt.

    Although the playoff is no guarantee with this roster -- I say we finish 10th-7th spot. Hoping no injuries this year especially to our go to guys...whoever that is.
    but definite upgrade. If you play the two rosters against each other this years team will win no doubt.

    Peace out
    No one's arguing the roster isn't better but, come on, even you're talking about maybe making the playoffs. No one is talking about this team being anything other than first round cannon fodder. Again, apparently that's good enough for you and a lot of Raps fans. That's fine. But don't expect everyone to share that view.

    I find a lot of this rationalization of the roster funny given that there would not have been a person on this forum who would have been happy with Fields and Lowry as the extent of the offseason additions going into the summer.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    No one's arguing the roster isn't better but, come on, even you're talking about maybe making the playoffs. No one is talking about this team being anything other than first round cannon fodder. Again, apparently that's good enough for you and a lot of Raps fans. That's fine. But don't expect everyone to share that view.

    I find a lot of this rationalization of the roster funny given that there would not have been a person on this forum who would have been happy with Fields and Lowry as the extent of the offseason additions going into the summer.
    But being a first round out is not a bad thing if you move forward after that. I am 100% okay if we are a 1st round out, as long as we build on that. Wouldn't you say that going from a pretty poor, untalented team to a first round playoff team (with all signs saying future development would be possible with tons of youth and no contracts that hinder us), is a solid jump in a rebuild?

    I would.

    Something else that I was thinking about, we had a tremendous defensive improvement under 1 year with Casey, and little to no personel improvements. I am dying to see what Casey can do with multiple talented defenders coming onto the team. I am really hoping to have a top 8 defensive team (or in that ballpark).

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    You don't judge an NBA roster by who the 8th-14th men on the bench are. In terms of key personnel, they've upgraded at the PG spot but the key comp there isn't Lowry vs. Bayless, it's Lowry vs. Calderon. Is that an upgrade? Yes. Is it a major upgrade? Unlikely. Is Lowry a difference maker? No.

    The SG and PF spots are static from a 20+ win team. There is still a massive, gaping hole at SF. Sorry, I don't care what Wins Produced indicates, I don't see Fields as any sort of upgrade over what was there. The centre position will be improved but JV is a rookie and it will take him time - maybe even measured in seasons - to make an impact.

    The team has no top of the food chain player. No superstar. No all-star type players. This team is on a track heading nowhere. If that's the right track for you, then that's fine but don't serve me hamburger helper and tell me it's filet mignon.

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    You don't judge an NBA roster by who the 8th-14th men on the bench are. In terms of key personnel, they've upgraded at the PG spot but the key comp there isn't Lowry vs. Bayless, it's Lowry vs. Calderon. Is that an upgrade? Yes. Is it a major upgrade? Unlikely. Is Lowry a difference maker? No.

    The SG and PF spots are static from a 20+ win team. There is still a massive, gaping hole at SF. Sorry, I don't care what Wins Produced indicates, I don't see Fields as any sort of upgrade over what was there. The centre position will be improved but JV is a rookie and it will take him time - maybe even measured in seasons - to make an impact.

    The team has no top of the food chain player. No superstar. No all-star type players. This team is on a track heading nowhere. If that's the right track for you, then that's fine but don't serve me hamburger helper and tell me it's filet mignon.
    C'mon man. If we get career years out of each Lowry, Bargnani, DeRozen, Davis and Fields... plus if Big Val steps in and immediately becomes a dominant low post force, we have a shot at the playoffs.

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    You don't judge an NBA roster by who the 8th-14th men on the bench are. In terms of key personnel, they've upgraded at the PG spot but the key comp there isn't Lowry vs. Bayless, it's Lowry vs. Calderon. Is that an upgrade? Yes. Is it a major upgrade? Unlikely. Is Lowry a difference maker? No.

    The SG and PF spots are static from a 20+ win team. There is still a massive, gaping hole at SF. Sorry, I don't care what Wins Produced indicates, I don't see Fields as any sort of upgrade over what was there. The centre position will be improved but JV is a rookie and it will take him time - maybe even measured in seasons - to make an impact.

    The team has no top of the food chain player. No superstar. No all-star type players. This team is on a track heading nowhere. If that's the right track for you, then that's fine but don't serve me hamburger helper and tell me it's filet mignon.
    Let me remind you that rookies don't become all stars overnight. Get it into your head that no all star will want to come here unless we start winning. This is a good start that BC made, I'd like to see you try to turn this team into a playoffs contender it's not easy. You like many other people on here think that our players will never improve. I'm pretty sure with each passing year players tend to get better which only makes the team better. Plus you don't always need a top of a food chain player to win, we still don't know how good JV or t Ross will be.

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Sorry, I don't care what Wins Produced indicates, I don't see Fields as any sort of upgrade over what was there.
    Fair enough, can you fill me in on your methodolology?

    Also, Lowry may not be a significant upgrade over Calderon indivudually, but probably fits a Casey team much better.

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    Yeah, going through position by position:

    starting PG: improved (Lowry > Calderon)
    backup PG: improved, assuming Calderon is retained and is healthy (Calderon > Bayless)
    starting SG: unchanged
    backup SG: improved (Ross > Forbes), arguably equal with start of last season (Ross = Barbosa, although that's a big unknown given that we haven't seen Ross on an NBA court yet.)
    starting SF: improved (Fields > Johnson... some will dispute this and we won't have a good idea until we see Fields on the court)
    backup SF: essentially unchanged (improved, if you consider the absence of Rasual Butler)
    starting PF: unchanged
    backup PF: unchanged
    starting C/backup C: improved (hard to say exactly how this depth-chart looks, but Valanciunas + Grey + Amir > Grey + Amir + Magloire)

    As well, those positions that I've listed as unchanged above are all populated by players who are pre-peak, and should continue to improve (Davis, DeRozan), or players who were significantly hampered by injury last year (Bargnani, Kleiza).

    It's pretty remarkable to improve so many positions without weakening ourselves somewhere else.

    We still need to upgrade starting SF, but there just weren't the SFs on the market this season. I'm optimistic about the Raptors staying in the conversation for Igoudala, or giving him a big offer if he activates his ETO next offseason.

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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Yeah, going through position by position:

    starting PG: improved (Lowry > Calderon)
    backup PG: improved, assuming Calderon is retained and is healthy (Calderon > Bayless)
    starting SG: unchanged
    backup SG: improved (Ross > Forbes), arguably equal with start of last season (Ross = Barbosa, although that's a big unknown given that we haven't seen Ross on an NBA court yet.)
    starting SF: improved (Fields > Johnson... some will dispute this and we won't have a good idea until we see Fields on the court)
    backup SF: essentially unchanged (improved, if you consider the absence of Rasual Butler)
    starting PF: unchanged
    backup PF: unchanged
    starting C/backup C: improved (hard to say exactly how this depth-chart looks, but Valanciunas + Grey + Amir > Grey + Amir + Magloire)

    As well, those positions that I've listed as unchanged above are all populated by players who are pre-peak, and should continue to improve (Davis, DeRozan), or players who were significantly hampered by injury last year (Bargnani, Kleiza).

    It's pretty remarkable to improve so many positions without weakening ourselves somewhere else.

    We still need to upgrade starting SF, but there just weren't the SFs on the market this season. I'm optimistic about the Raptors staying in the conversation for Igoudala, or giving him a big offer if he activates his ETO next offseason.
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    I covered it with icing sugar and noted that it was remarkably improved.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    I'm with slaw. I was trying to make the same point in a thread yesterday.

    I think it may be good to underestimate the team for a change, it won't break my heart so much later in the season. I'm usually a little over-optimistic going into the season, normally followed by a big letdown. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

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